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Location:
logan river brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Sun, 04 September 2005 15:43
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i have gathered info courtesy of reliable sources on this site.Once confirmed [in my belief] i record same info for future reference.
I have recorded thar a w58 sourced from a na 2Jzge hs double synchros on second and third gear plus an improved shifter design.
as this info has been disputed I request people with first hand knowledge to clarify the situation please.
for those that are unaware,the term "first hand knowledge" refers to a fact you have witnessed with your own eyes or perhaps quoting an indisputable source? [do they exist]
please take this in a friendly context but all the same,I really would like to get to the bottom of it as I would hate to be offering bullshit advice.these gearboxes are expensive and hard to find.
thanks in advance.cheers.pete. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Mon, 05 September 2005 00:14
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Wilbo and I compared a few W5x gearsets at my place recently, including my old JZA80 W58. What we found:
- No evidence of double synchro's, although the design of the synchro rings was slightly different.
- No way does reverse have synchromesh on it (this is another rumour you may have heard).
- Bearings are slightly wider on input shaft and output shaft.
- Some gears are slightly wider, including the layshaft gears at the front of the box and reverse for some reason.
- Shifter design is different but the changes are minor. The selector shaft is mounted on roller bearings, not sure if that makes much difference though.
That's all I can remember. Wilbo has some photos which he might post when he sees this thread.
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Location:
logan river brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Mon, 05 September 2005 01:21
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Thanks Norbie,yes it was Wilbo's info that has caused me to be questioning what I have previously accepted as fact.
This is a good example of how these myths or misinformations spread.Do you think its possible that any W58's are double synchro? Cheers.Pete.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Mon, 05 September 2005 01:34
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In Wilbo's absence I'll state a couple of things he's told me.
He believes that the JZA80 W58 is no different to the steel plate MA70 W58, and that its only the alloy plate W58's that have smaller bearings.
I'd wait for him to come online to verify this though.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Mon, 05 September 2005 02:16
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This is a good example of how these myths or misinformations spread.
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These are also known as "Yankee Facts".
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Mon, 05 September 2005 02:25
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LOL it's so true. I heard all of these "facts" on Yank forums, and they've been spread around as gospel ever since. Try finding someone who's actually looked inside one of these gearboxes though!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Mon, 05 September 2005 02:31
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Hey pete, good to see you are trying to get to the bottom of this!
Like I said, I also used to believe some of the 'facts' that were told!
Like Norbie said we had a look a few W5X gearsets at his place not that long ago. I took some detailed pictures in comparison to my W55 and W58 showing bearing/gear size differences at a later date, there are a number of pics and I think I will try and get around to putting them into a PDF sooner rather than later for all to see... Norbs has pretty well hit the nail on the head with the differences thought
a few extra things...
*steel sandwitch plate W58's have a magnet on each side of the sandwitch plate
*they have a cover/oil sling? under the gears forward of the sandwitch plate.
*input shaft has slightly (vey slightly) more meat when it steps up in size.
Also as CrUZsida was saying, I suspect that all steel sandwitch plate W58's have the wider bearings/other differences, but I am yet to get my hands on a known steel plate ex MA70 W58 to confirm this firsthand...
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Mon, 05 September 2005 02:38
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| THE WITZL wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 12:16 |
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This is a good example of how these myths or misinformations spread.
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These are also known as "Yankee Facts".
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Turns into 'Wankee Facts' so easily 
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Thu, 15 September 2005 21:02
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awesome - thanks for writing the document and posting it up here.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Thu, 15 September 2005 21:08
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Nice work Wilbo.
This should be added to the tech articles!
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Fri, 16 September 2005 05:42
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Oooh, I have some information here which might clear up some of these "facts", and where they came from.
I got my hands on a Toyota W58 rebuild manual (dated Nov., 1991, and applicable to MA70s & MX81s with 7M-GEs, obviously) a few years ago, and it gives the following description of a W58:
* The 1st through 5th gears are constant mesh gears which use an inertia lock key type synchromesh mechanism. The reverse gear is a sliding mesh gear which is engaged by sliding the idler gear.
And more importantly:
*A multi-cone synchromesh mechanism is used on the 2nd & 3rd gears. In addition, the synchromesh mechanism of the 5th gear also constitutes part of the reverse gear synchromesh mechanism.
So I guess this is where some of these "facts" originated from.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Fri, 16 September 2005 09:00
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I would argue that the shift design is slightly better, as the finish on the selctor shaft is a much better design where it selects the gears.
The newer selection shaft has a vastly improved snug fit when selcting gears. Older w58 selctors are more 'rectangular' (for a lack of a better word) and are larger in size and from what i can see have more chance of catching other gears (im sure norbie and witzl can confirm this haha). This also results in a slightly lesser notchy shift in my opinion.
But its only a minor difference.
Plus you need to do this for first hand experience:
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Fri, 16 September 2005 22:47
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| BlackSupra wrote on Fri, 16 September 2005 19:00 |
I would argue that the shift design is slightly better, as the finish on the selctor shaft is a much better design where it selects the gears.
The newer selection shaft has a vastly improved snug fit when selcting gears. Older w58 selctors are more 'rectangular' (for a lack of a better word) and are larger in size and from what i can see have more chance of catching other gears (im sure norbie and witzl can confirm this haha). This also results in a slightly lesser notchy shift in my opinion.
But its only a minor difference.
EDIT REMOVE PIC OF GLEN BEING A DONG
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Good point, I kinda glossed over that bit being slightly different.
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Sat, 17 September 2005 06:46
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| THE WITZL wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 12:16 |
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This is a good example of how these myths or misinformations spread.
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These are also known as "Yankee Facts".
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Too true. Take anything stated on a U.S forum with a large bag of salt.
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Location:
logan river brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Sat, 17 September 2005 16:03
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Thanks all for the excellent info.Nice work on your document Wilbo!But can you "air guitar" a w58 like in blacksupras pic? 
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: please confirm or dismiss the "double synchro W58"2J box
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Sat, 17 September 2005 23:20
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Have ya tried shrinking that pic down and chopping some of the excess off?
Vote 1 - airguitar W58 for Teh Dong's new avatar
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