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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? ---SOLVED!!!!
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Wed, 14 September 2005 13:18
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hey i've just bought a MA61 with a 7MGTE in it. the i bought it off doesn't really know much about cars (or at least that's what he told me) and didn't know what was wrong with it. but anyway here's the story.
It was running on only 4 or 5 cylinders and i took it for a test drive to try and clear it out but it wouldn't clear out and when i tried to rev it heaps when driving it would do this weird cut out thing. anyway, i ordered in a new set of plugs and ignition leads for it (damn expensive) and when i went to take the plugs out, the plugs of cylinders 1,2,3 and 4 were all full of water. anyway i got rid of all the water and put the new plugs and leads on and started the car and it started up on 6 cylinders and sounded great. i let it warm up and then revved it while stationary in neutral and it revs just how it should, all normal. now here's the problem. when you drive the car and put your foot down (put the motor under load) it cuts out... feels exactly like a boost cut where the whole car just dies. it's not a boost cut tho as it's only getting 5 pounds boost on the boost guage and can't really get more than that anyway as there's no boost tap on it. there's no vaccuum leaks anywhere. the only things i've noticed so far is that the computer ai an auto computer and the black box which screws onto the air flow meter does have a whole in it the size of your thumbnail but i looked inside and there's no water or crap in there....
so the run down is that when there's no load on the motor (like in neutral), you can rev as hard and quick as you want and everything's normal but as soon as you put motor under load, it has this weird cut out, i'm hoping there's someone who's had this problem before as there's plenty of 7MGTE's out there.... fingers crossed and i look forward to your help
thanks
bexi
[Updated on: Thu, 22 September 2005 22:47]
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 14 September 2005 13:53
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"cylinders 1,2,3 and 4 were all full of water"
Ok now that there is very worrying!! shit! how much water? that poor 7m may have bent conrods now.
Does it use coolant? I'm pretty sure it is, unless it's fuel that is filling up in there?
Is that hole you mentioned before or after the Air Flow meter? If it's after the air flow meter then you'll have all sorts of problems. I'm sure you probably know this stuff.
Also check for codes? I bet there is a few codes the ECU is just waiting to share.
The previous owner needs a slappin.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 14 September 2005 13:57
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no the cylinders wern't full of water.... just the hole that the spark plugs sit in. forget that could of just been the bloke washing the motor... it's the problem i have with the cut off now
the air flow moeter doesn't have a hole in it... just the outer casing of the black box that screws onto the AFM
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 14 September 2005 14:04
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ah ok few! not so bad. Altho getting water in that area is also a possible cuase for the cut outs. But anyway First thing i'd do is check for error codes. (start with the simpler things first)
Find your diagnostics block and short pins E1 and TE1(or something simular, you'll see the ones), turn the ignition accessories on and count the engine light flashes on the dash)
eg of how to read the engine light flashes.
flash..flash....flash..flash..flash that would be a code 23
If it just continually flashes then there are no error codes. You probably know all this stuff.
Let me know what you find out.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 14 September 2005 14:40
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no the water in around the plugs would just possibly cause shorting but as i said that's all fixed now and is not a problem now.
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Find your diagnostics block and short pins E1 and TE1(or something simular, you'll see the ones), turn the ignition accessories on and count the engine light flashes on the dash)
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how do i short these.... short them to earth??
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eg of how to read the engine light flashes.
flash..flash....flash..flash..flash that would be a code 23
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so how do i know what 6 (for example) flashes mean?? and if i somehow find out it's code 23 (for your example) how do i know what code 23 is?
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 14 September 2005 23:17
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to short them, get a paperclip and join them together.
Sounds like an intake leak to me. I had an identical problem in my 7M when the 3000 pipe wasn't done up properly to the throttle body thus letting in unmetered air
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 14 September 2005 23:49
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"no the water in around the plugs would just possibly cause shorting"
Yes exactly. But anyway all i'm saying is that it's bad, and could be cuasing intermittent electrical related problems stopping spark, who knows for sure. But if you have cleared all the water out and dryed it out then good.
as Danners said you just join them together.
The error codes are common among all toyota's, that is to say a code 23 will mean the same thing across all/most models. And a list of what each code meads can be found on these forums somewhere. But i was going to save you the hassle when you got back with the code(s).
You might get 2 or 3 codes, and then it will just keep repeating them until you switch you ignition off.
I will try dig up a list of what error codes mean what.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Thu, 15 September 2005 07:25
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the pipe that runs between the AFM and turbo has a crack in it at the end that joins onto the turbo but the crack looks like it's not as long as the fitting of the turbo that the pipe mounts too therefore air would not get in there... apart from that, i can't find any air leaks and all clamps are tight too... i can't hear an air leak either.
i have ordered a new pipe that i'm talking about but i doubt that's it.... anymore hints from anyone?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Thu, 15 September 2005 07:38
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Being an engine swap, I'd say you don't have a Check Engine Light hooked up.
Depends how dodgy the person who did the swap was.
I'd say the guy cleaned the engine bay with a high pressure hose.
Hence the plug holes were full of water.
Best bet would be to unplug everything electrical one at a time, and make sure no water is in the plug.
Most plugs are semi watertight, but things happen.
Its also possible that the AFM did get water in it, especially if it has a hole in it.
Start by getting rid of all intake leaks, although I can't see a small to medium leak causing a cut out.
The problem sounds more electrical to me.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Thu, 15 September 2005 09:10
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Ah yes that's always a possibilty Cruzsida. A Beams 3sge loom i was installing a few weeks ago, had no diagnostics connector wired in. Made fetching codes a bitch, had to tap them straight from the ECU pins.
Sounds like an electrical problem to me aswell. But if codes can be fetched i'm sure that will help in locating the cuase.
Diagnostic block is usually near firewall passenger side bexi.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Thu, 15 September 2005 09:55
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yeah i'm starting to think afm aswell.... i've done some more attempted driving and looking at things.... i've checked and tightened everything to ensure no air leaks. i'm pretty confident it is a fuel related problem but it is an electrical 'something' causing the fuel problem... like something's cutting out the fuel. so for example... the air flow meter is getting in correct reading's and cutting fuel... maybe it will free rev as there is nowhere near as much air passing through the AFM as there is when the turbo is pumping under load and sucking in so much more air through the AFM?
is there anyone who has a 7mgte who might be able to come to my house and let me borrow their AFM to quickly put on my car just to check if that's what it is? ...or someone who has a spare one?
also... any other idea's... keep em coming and i'll keep checking.... we'll get this one and this motor will be cracking... just a matter of time... thanks already for the help i've already got and thanks in advance for the help to come
bexi
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Thu, 15 September 2005 12:53
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i might be able to borrow an air flow but i dont work for free
plus im booked out for 3 weeks
does it stop at around 4000 all the time
or does it vary the rpm where it breaks down
i have worked on afew 7mgte and they have probs with the air flows
clean the air flow meter with contact cleaner and see if its better
otherwise u might have to pay someone to look at it
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Thu, 15 September 2005 13:17
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| bexi wrote on Thu, 15 September 2005 17:25 |
the pipe that runs between the AFM and turbo has a crack in it
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I bet that's your problem. Crack = air leak = lean mixtures = fuel cut.
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Thu, 15 September 2005 22:28
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| sideshow wrote on Thu, 15 September 2005 22:53 |
i might be able to borrow an air flow but i dont work for free
plus im booked out for 3 weeks
does it stop at around 4000 all the time
or does it vary the rpm where it breaks down
i have worked on afew 7mgte and they have probs with the air flows
clean the air flow meter with contact cleaner and see if its better
otherwise u might have to pay someone to look at it
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You worked on my Soarer sideshow. My problem was a faulty AFM in the end... intermittent of course!
Dan
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Location:
Canning Vale WA
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Fri, 16 September 2005 02:27
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hey mate, just a question, when you start getting on boost and it starts cutting out does shitloads of black smoke come out of your exhaust??.
chech the flexi rubber joining bit between the 3000 pipe and the plennum, sometimes it gets cracks in the bottom and even if teh clamps are tight it leaks, you cant hear it at idle.
also replace the accordian pipe if you can, that shit can lead to problems, doing rings on a 7m aint a fun job..
On another point, i also would be interested to see where i can get diagnostic codes from..
cheers people, good luck mate
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Fri, 16 September 2005 02:41
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hey mate, just a question, when you start getting on boost and it starts cutting out does shitloads of black smoke come out of your exhaust??.
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...you mine like what happens when a car hits boost cut - no it doesn't do that
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chech the flexi rubber joining bit between the 3000 pipe and the plennum, sometimes it gets cracks in the bottom and even if teh clamps are tight it leaks, you cant hear it at idle.
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.... i have tightened clamp but havn't pulled it off.... can't hear any air leaks there... do u think i need to pull them off?
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also replace the accordian pipe if you can, that shit can lead to problems, doing rings on a 7m aint a fun job..
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...if that's the pipe between the turbo and AFM, i'm going to get the new one in an hour
thanks for the ongoing help guys... i'll keep the progress updated and keep the help coming
i'mn going to try and track down an AFM to swap over on it ... may even buy another car with a 7MGTE in it so i can swap bits to find the problem and then choose which car i wanna keep if noone can lend me a hand with a borrowed AFM
bexi
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Location:
Canning Vale WA
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Fri, 16 September 2005 06:39
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i would pull it off and have a look, this happened to me a while ago and i couldnt hear the leak, however that would cause it to blow heaps of smoke due to shitloads of fuel going in. try to score an AFM to troubleshoot with and its good that you are swapping the pipe before the turbo, that can lead to problems. what boost is it hitting before this happens. if it just bogs down as soon as it gets on any boost it sounds like a blown ose or even and intercooler problem.
good luck mate, i will let you know if i think of something else
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Fri, 16 September 2005 12:38
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hey stomps ... yeah it's pretty much as soon as it gets any boost ... like basically as soon as it hits zero or a bit over
bexi
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Sat, 17 September 2005 05:58
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just put new hose on that goes between AFM and turbo and cleaned inside the AFM (the mesh and black stalk that goes through the middle) with brake cleaner .... problem is the same and actually probably worse.... i'm crying out for someone to drop in here at castle hill for just 30 mins so i can quickly put their AFM on to see if that's the problem... any offers?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Sun, 18 September 2005 02:52
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The Toyota manual containing the ECU codes, and lots of troubleshooting advice is online at:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/
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Location:
Canning Vale WA
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Mon, 19 September 2005 02:26
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hey bexi, this may sound like a stupid question but did you check the hose off the bottom of your turbo?? sometimes if the pipes dont line up exactly then the clamps can slip off.. the hose connector stays on so car still runs and it looks ok, but as soon as you get on boost then the pipe gets pushed apart slightly and leeks boost, kinda bastardly problem to check coz its a bitch to get to the pipe and even worse tightening it but it may be worth a shot..
P.S cheers for the website Jasper, sorry i got your parts so long, just been flat out with Uni exams and cant get a ride up to yours, cheers mate, will come up soon..
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Mon, 19 September 2005 02:38
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I'm not in a hurry to get them back, as I don't need them. You must be missing driving your car though... Let me know if you want to try the CPS. BTW have you tried pulling your ECU codes?
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Location:
Canning Vale WA
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Mon, 19 September 2005 03:04
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i gotta check what the code is for, since we did the conversion there was an code that would come up every once in a while.
another problem is that now my immobiliser has fucked up and dosent um-immobalise, that makes it hard to check where power is getting through and where it isint.. i will probably need to try your CPS coz i got a feeling mine is stuffed. i was told that they rarely brake coz they are magnetic but that would explain my problems, especially coz it has been taken out recently..
as soon as i fix the immob then i will be able to check my CPS and if thats the problem i will definitly need yours..
i am also very keen on the whole exhaust, will let you know soon
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Mon, 19 September 2005 03:18
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Sounds like the problem might be the immobiliser...
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Location:
Canning Vale WA
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Mon, 19 September 2005 04:58
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yeah, i was thinking that but its wierd that it would just cut in as i am driving... also i was playing around with some wiring around the immob before it fucked up.. not sure though coz i didnt change anything really, just moved the siren.. dunno, gotta get that fixed before i try anyhting else..
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 06:27
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ok i've got another car handy with a perfectly running 7MGTE in it... i've swapped air flow meter's and coil packs.... still no difference. i've drained fuel out of my tank and put fresh fuel in... still the same ... i can now however drive the car on 1/4 throttle with no problems... it even comes on boost a bit and keeps driving but as soon as you put more load on engine and accelerate more like to half way for example it dies in the ass... are the fuel pumps in MA61's prone to problems... i'm gathering my car has a std MA61 fuel pump in it... i've also put a new fuel filter on... i'm running out of idea's as to what this can be.....??
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? (but not boost cut)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 06:32
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Test the TPS
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? ---SOLVED!!!!
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Thu, 22 September 2005 22:56
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ok well the problem is solved... here is the final story.....
this car has been sitting round for a long time so i thought it might be a good idea to drain the fuel and put fresh fuel in so i took the bung out of the fuel tank and drained all the fuel. it was as stale as all hell... i then put 10 litres of fresh optimax in and went for a test drive... car seemed to run a bit smoother but didn't fix problema nd still hit the cut out... my mate took it for a drive and stated that when he was driving down a hill he could booot it as much as he wanted but as soon as he hit a hill or even flat ground it had this cut out again. so i thought what the hell (the car's unregistered) and i drove down to the servo and put 30 litres in. turned out of the servo and put my foot down and boosted the whole way home... fixed... for some reason the car doesn't like being low on fuel... maybe the fuel pump pick up has moved in the tank and doesn't sit low enough. MA61's are inJECTED standard so should have baffles in the tank to prevent serging but anyway i don't care ... i just gotta keep more than 10 litres in the tank and i'm happy.
just want to say thanks heaps to all the people that have offered suggestions and help as i have also found alot of fiddly things along the way which wouldn't have helped the whole situation and now i know i'm gonna have one hell of a reliable ride.
thanks guys
bexi
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? ---SOLVED!!!!
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Thu, 22 September 2005 23:00
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Random, the tank is usually pretty good unless you're basically running on fumes. Perhaps something has moved inside. Ah well, least you got to the bottom of it!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7MGTE weird cut out under boost/load?? ---SOLVED!!!!
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Sat, 24 September 2005 09:37
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improperly fitted aftermarket pump maybe?
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