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Location:
geelong
Registered:
August 2005
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 18RG Questions
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Mon, 26 September 2005 10:36
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with the 18RG and the 18R what is the difference between them apart from the 18RG being twin cam and haveing solexs? are the
blocks all the same?
with the 18RG's are the Yamaha Heads different to the other twin cam heads?
i got a 18RG the other day and ive also got a corana with the 18R in it and i wanted to see if i could use parts from one in the other.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Mon, 26 September 2005 11:32
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Hi,
The effort to convert your 18R into an 18RG isn't worth it. The blocks are very similar but the oil dipstick and I think some other bits are in the wrong place. The quickest and easiest way to get an 18RG into your car is to put in a whole 18RG and forget the difficult path of trying to convert your 18R into an 18RG.
Yamaha did the head design for all the 18RG engines (and maybe other engines too, but I'm not sure). Whether the actual head was made by Toyota or Yamaha is immaterial - they are the same head.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Mon, 26 September 2005 22:03
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the only reason u'd interchange the short motor is if u kicked a rod/cracked a piston ect ect and u just swapped all the stuff {head/aux shaft/timing cover ect ect} to the 18RC so u could still have a working car.
coronas with 18rg's are cool tho 
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Location:
geelong
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Tue, 27 September 2005 08:08
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are the pistions and the crankshafts all the same.? will the 18r-c sump fit onto the 18rg so i can put it in my TA22.
what mods do you guys suggest doing to the 18RG to get it going hard proble just going to stay NA but mabe Turbo. dont worry about the cost.  just want to know what you guys suggest to do. if you have a price on the mods it would be handy but dont stress 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 02:15
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hurricane
Do you realise the amount of work that is required to put an 18R-G into your TA-22?
Unless you have bought the TA-22 with one in it.
I reckon to make an NA 18R-G go hard:- $5000 can net you around 110kW.
Forged Hicomp 3 or 4mm O/S pistons. $1200 for pistons
Balanced and bluprinted stock bottom end/ lightened flywheel/ HD clutch. $1000
Mild porting. 11mm lift cams around 310--320 duration. Head already has double valve springs. Cams $500. Porting $200-$300.
Could add oversize valves. $500 supply and fit.
Run 40mm or 44mm Solexes jetted to suit. $600--$700.
The stock W50 gearbox would easily handle this.
Plus all the usual extra little stuff and engine machining.
Regards
Rodger
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Location:
Townsville North Qld
Registered:
June 2003
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 Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 02:40
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110kW from $5000?? you got a problematic engine yrhkira!! Or maybe you mean 210kW. The 18RG early model (88210 and 88230 head) came with 146Hp, or 108kW factory standard. add and exhaust, good air filters, and electric fuel pump and thermofan and you have way more than that. with all the work your talking about doing, you should be pulling way more than 200Hp, at about 10,000rpm. Gee... with that sorta work done, toyota managed to pull 302Hp from their racing 18RG's in the early 80's.
To make them go hard on a budget, balance the crank, rods and pistons (i did the job for around $150 just recently, mind you i get trade prices and did the work on the rods/pistons myself), throw a new set of bearings and rings in, hone the bores, mix a bottom end from an 88230 motor (9.7:1 pistons) and a head from an 88270 motor (bigger valves and ports, double valve springs from factory... the 88210/230 had singles) and use the cams out of the 88230 motor. This will rev up around the 7-8 grand mark, depending on your cam timing, and other factors. Also use the carbs from the 230 head, as the later model carbs were for unleaded, made to reduce pollution, but had major design problems. Should bring you close to the 200Hp mark for a couple of g's if you do most of the work yourself.
Another solution to the carbs is to run injection, using the 4AG silvertop quad throttlebodies and an aftermarket computer. This in itself will cost a couple of g's but will be VERY useful if you change your mind about the turbo.
Check out some of the american sites like classic-celica.com for info on getting aftermarket pistons for 18RG's, as they have people over there that will cast the pistons... then you just need them sent over here.
Cheers, Owen
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Location:
Townsville North Qld
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 02:53
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As for your questions about the 18RC and 18RG's internal compatibility hurricane, you will be dissapointed to know that the similarities stop just after saying the blocks are identical. Yes the dipstick is on the opposite side, but if you look, there is casting to allow the dipstick on either side, and there is just a welch plug stopping whichever isnt in use. The sump and pickup are the same, but the 18RG oil pump has higher flow. The pistons will fit... until you try running the engine. putting either set of piston to the wrong head will cause valves to touch. Lower timing chain, sprockets, guide and tensioner are the same, so is the lower sprocket for the upper timing set. Auxilary shaft is differnt, and there is an oil pump drive in the 18RG where the 18RC has its dizzy. Dizzy is the same tho. timing cover is different, and there is an extra dizzy drive gear goes on the end of the aux shaft. As for the crank and rods, the crank was better balanced... and i believe hardened as well... and the rods were also stronger. There was also a crank case breather for the 18RG and the original fuel pump was rated for a higher flow. in all, not much from the 18RC fits the 18RG
summary, bits that fit
sump
oil pickup
block casting
lower timing set
upper timing lower sprocket
dizzy
oil filter housing
front and rear backing plates
dipstick(with relocation)
piston pins.
Cheers, Owen
bolt on stuff like alternator, starter, a/c etc will all fit
[Updated on: Wed, 28 September 2005 02:54]
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 02:59
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Yeah o_man_ra23
Got my kW wrong didn't I. You are right, 200kW-210kW.
Got someone else thinking about what needs to be done as hurricane wants to hear, though.
Regards
Rodger
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Location:
geelong
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 05:34
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why is there alot of work to put a 18RG into a TA22? the RAs had them didnt they.
is it worth moding? with the carbys i think i would just use webers.
is a 2TG motor better to spend money on?
my motor is the 88250 is it any good?
is it better just to build a turbo 18RG or getter a better engine? what will have to be done to turbo? what is a better engine option?
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Location:
Townsville North Qld
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 08:23
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Your options are varied hurricane. ive seen all the options you have mentioned and more in TA22's (except turbo18RG, but im sure its been done). The 2TG is an easier option. A turbo motor that bolts in is the 3TGTE, but then you need to sort out a gearbox that fits which will handle the power, and a diff... suggestion of a W55 from a 1G and a hilux G series diff (correct width). To put the 18RG into the TA22, you need to find and install a front sump and pickup, then modify the engine mounts, as well as manufacture a new gearbox mount to slot the W50 which is bound to be behind the 18RG in. Not too much more other than the usual exhaust mods needs to be done. the carbs sqeeze in with a bee's dick of room when you have short air filters and carby runners. Another engine which isnt too hard to slot in is the 4AGTE or 4AGZE, either of which i believe can be found in RWD format from a jap importer. Whatever option you do, other than put a straight 2TG in, you need to consult an automotive engineer to find out what brake and suspension upgrades you will have to perform to drop the motor in.
Cheers, Owen
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 13:57
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exactly what o_man_ra23 says. I agree.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 14:39
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sorry but i find it very hard to believe you could get 210kw from a 2L n.a 18rg with the mods you mentioned...
but if you can then please come and sort out my 3sge
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 14:55
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210kw from 1968cc is over 100kw/L. Good luck with your atmo 8-valve four pot.
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Wed, 28 September 2005 23:08
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man id like to see one of those 210kw NA 18rgs aswell
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 02:48
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Ok Ok.
I am all over the shop a bit, talking out my arse a bit. Yes it would take a lot to get 200kW and I'd like to see that. If I say 170-190bhp then anyone beleive this?
Can I blame older age and getting kWs confused with Hp?
Regards
Rodger
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 05:12
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200 engine HP... yeah it's believable... but in atmo form would take a fair bit of work!
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Location:
Townsville North Qld
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 05:31
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YES the 18RG did get a 300hP kit. it was in some of the race cars that TOMS built in the early 80's. They were not 1968cc... but closer to 2200cc as they were heavily bored. They also had VERY lumpy bump sticks, and did not produce this power until they reached in the vicinity of 10,000 rpm or more. Furthermore, they ran ultra high compression, and a hefty dose of very expensive high octane fuel. They idled at around the 2000rpm mark, and produced super sluggish power below about 5000rpm, where they started putting you back in your seat. Anybody considering such an engine for the street should screw their head back on or pull it out from under the rock they are below. These also had modified blocks for extra oil and water distribution, and extremely balanced internals... dont attempt to build one unless you have race-precision equipment at your disposal. I have heard of 1 person getting hold of one of the unused spare motors and putting it in a street car... they pulled it back out about 2 weeks later as they couldnt drive it.
SO... yes, 210kw can be pulled from an atmo 18RG... but not very easily. if your after that kind of power... turbo the bugger.
Cheers, Owen
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Location:
geelong
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 09:55
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so what are the 18RG's like with turbos. do they go shit hot? what do you have to change to turbo one?
OR do you think i should just go with a NA motor and do some work to it, like boreing, porting, polishing, balanceing,lightening stuff and cams?
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 11:14
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if u want somthing tough NA and what u listed above ull be wanting deep pockets and or a freind thats a machinist.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 11:24
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From all accounts, turbo 18RG's are awesome. Since you have a 250, you should be able to turbo it and run moderate boost on stock internals, so in that respect, it would be cheaper than a worked NA.
If you were to turbo your 18RG to about 10psi you would have to:
-make a exhaust manifold and source a turbo
-get an EFI system, or g-up a blow-through carb setup
-organise the piping
-cool it's arse
The complexity is in the details, but essentially there is very little to it.
A worked NA however, you would be looking at:
-high comp pistons (250 pistons are too low to run long duration cams)
-funky cams
-porting and oversized valves (reasonably important if you want big power)
-bigger carbs, or rejet solexes (a bit of a restriction with big cams) or EFI the bugger
-all associated machining.
Basically, turbos are easy power, which is why they are so popular. You just have to decide what your application is.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 13:16
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One key point your missing with the turbo is ignition.
This is the issue I'm trying to work out at the moment, particularly boost retard.
What was the compression ratio from teh 88250 engines?
They were still listed as 18RG at that point in the time line, just before the 18RGU, so I would have thought that they would have had the 9.7:1 pistons in them or 9.2:1 in the 18RGR.
Unless they are the engines that had the 8.5:1 pistons that I saw at a swap meet, never heard of those before, but there it was, cast into the dome top.
I've heared that 88250 heads had 45mm inlet valves but still had the small exhaust valves, can any one shed some light on this?
I reckon you'd be scratching to get 200hp using 9.7:1 stockies, 88270 head, 88230 cams and small other mods. I;m thinking more like 160hp.
88231 cams run out of puff at 6400RPM, sure it WILL rev out to 8000RPM no worries, but not if you want any sort of power or torque.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Thu, 29 September 2005 16:24
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88250 is an 18R-GU..... with lowish comp pistons (8.7:1), and 45/38.5mmm valves.
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Location:
geelong
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Fri, 30 September 2005 01:51
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the inlet valves in my head look pritty big. i can get pics if you want them.
does any one know the specs of the 88270 head like port sizes and valve sizes.
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Registered:
May 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Fri, 30 September 2005 08:51
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ive got 88232 8.5 pistons in my engine, they seem rarely talked about around here. it was it had the 230 head on the motor when i got it. its now got the 250 on.
can anyone shed some light on the 8.5 pistons?
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
August 2004
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Fri, 30 September 2005 14:41
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Thanks for the info on the 88250 headed 18RGU Witzl.
I've also seen an 88250 head that had the "18RG" front plate rather than an "18RGU" one.
8.5 pistons: Some 88230 headed engines were 18RGR's. Perhaps these pistons were from one of these.
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Location:
geelong
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Sat, 01 October 2005 23:51
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so do you guys think it is worth doing at 18RG up?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18RG Questions
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Sun, 02 October 2005 01:13
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yeh, they are a fun engine, if u turbo it they really star to move
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