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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 09:24
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ive got a 308 in a vk commodore which was running badly when i got it. had lack of power and bad fuel economy. i started with the basics to try to fix it. TIMING. i checked the timing with a light and it wouldnt show me anything. even moving the distributor the full amount each way still had nothing. i then looked up the firing order. it says 12784536 in clockwise direction with number 1 being front drivers side. i then checked the car and it has the firing order at 12456378 in a anticlose direction with number one at the front passenger side. i then thought thats why it ran bad so i set it according to what it read and it gave all the symptons of timing out with alot of backfiring so i moved it 180 degrees and still the same thing. but when i put it back the way it was it would run again but very rough. i then got a friend who knows alot about v8's tp have a go and he had exact same problems. we also lined everything up against 2 other v8 engines and mine was setup totally different. does anyone know any reasons i could be getting these problems and having everything completely different. before i got the car the previous owner had put aqnother manifold and carby on but sames he did not touch the cam timing and the car went just the same as before he did anything. ive also checked to see if piston is at tdc and it seems to be. somebody please help me as i just wanna get this thing going so its nicely drivable.
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Location:
Geelong, Vic
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 11:02
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I cant believe im about to do this but...
VK V8
Firing order 12784563
timing 6degrees BTDC below 850rpm (with the vacuum hose disconnected from the distributor sub-diaphram)
check the plugs, the plug leads for resistance (1.0-1.2k ohms at 25deg)(max25k), cap rotor etc for wear
what manifold did it have and what manifold does it have now?
it may have been a fuel (carby) problem and not the timing at all
is it the black or blue 5.0l? efi?
phill
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 12:02
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its the black 308. i already have all the details and thats the problem. if i set it up like that it will not run. it will only run when way out of wack from everything and im at a lose as to why its like that.
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Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 15:42
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Do you know if anythings been done to the motor ? Like a hotter cam, increased compression etc. Cause personally i can't see it being standard.
Have you tried a compression test ? How about the cam timing ? If your just going on what the previous owner told you then double check it. Are the valve gaps to spec ? With the ignition is it points or magnetic (hall effect) ? You might have to re-set the points gap.
Someone could have even phucked up and stamped holden on a ford block 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 16:11
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Dizzy out by a tooth?
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 21:35
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You say it is setup.
12784536 Is this correct?
Scootaphill say it should be 12784563, which from what I can remember sounds right to me. If you have 3 and 6 back to front you would end up with a problem like you have now.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 22:14
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sounds like the cams been set wrong.but if its old might have sticky lifters,poping is it?
mick
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 23:31
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atm the firing order is set to 12456378 which is completely different to what it should be. i havent checked anything apart from the timing as i didnt wanna pull it apart until i had to which it looks like i have to. the dizzy is electronic and as far as i know the only mods are better manifold and holley.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 23:33
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what size holley?alot of people put way to big a carbie on them!
mick
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 23:35
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fix firing order
mick
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 23:38
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thats where the problems start. ive tried fixing the firing order to where it should be and im getting no go at all. i was told it was a 500 holley but it looks like a 350. i guess ill just pull it apart.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sat, 01 October 2005 23:53
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350 holley is 2 barrel, 500 is 4 barrel?
have you got engine to TDC and looked at the rockers for cyl #1 ? maybe cam timing was never correct from the start.
anyway ...talk to blake - he knows all about v8's
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sun, 02 October 2005 00:03
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just a thought, maybe stupid. but are you sure its a 308 and not something silly like a chev motor? do they still have the same firing order? if this is the case them maybe it could be out cause holden 308 dont match chev small block specs.
firing order is - 12784563. thats definete!
also series to VKs had a 304. (same as EFI v8s) but firing order should be the same.
rotate the engine by hand till number 1 cylinder is at TDC of compression stroke, then put the dizzy in so the rotor button lines up with the number 1 cylinder mark. (there should be a small notch on teh dizzy body. then follow the firing order when you put the plug leads on teh cap. noting that the rotor button turns clockwise.
it should fire up then. if not then you got some internal engine probs.
sorry if this is all obvious to you and you already done it.....but thats what id do first...
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Location:
Geelong, Vic
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sun, 02 October 2005 00:45
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| thechuckster wrote on Sun, 02 October 2005 09:53 |
350 holley is 2 barrel, 500 is 4 barrel?
have you got engine to TDC and looked at the rockers for cyl #1 ? maybe cam timing was never correct from the start.
anyway ...talk to blake - he knows all about v8's
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i think the 500 is 2 barrel as well
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: not toyota but same basic engine principles.
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Sun, 02 October 2005 10:07
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ok i decided to start stripping it today and found some very bad things. first thing i found was that the outside of the harmonic balancer had spun off the rubber and the previous owner siliconed it back on in the wrong spot hence the timing position problem. i also found just above the timing case on the block that it was broken off and also siliconed back on. i dread to see what i find when i remove the heads and internals. i also found out its a strond possibility my carby is a 500 double pumper.
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