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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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 Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 09:58
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Besides extending the chassis rails of a vehicle and using a roll cage and strut braces, are there any other methods i can use to stiffen up my ride?
(MA61)
Cheers.....
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 10:06
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to what level?national car racing level,lap dashes?a roll cage that connects all the towers and is triangulated properly will give you all the stiffness needed.i take it your not using racing shocks? if not your wasting your time getting it to a very rigid level.a proper cage will have around 35 meters of tube in it.
mick
p.s you can two part foam fill it.but dont bend it as you will have trouble fixing it after its filled
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 10:22
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street use/drift and track
i want to keep it as neat as possible without giving the impression that it moves..... (Rather no cage at all)
coilovers will be implemented, but they will be a custom job...
will be used mainly for drift.... 
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 10:29
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dont rely need stiffness for drifting more a horsepower thing.stiffnes is for corner handling etc which you dont get when your sideways!lol just use stiff shocks as opposed to soft for racing.
mick
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 10:36
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thats the other thing, i plan of havin lots of hp.
with that in mind im thinking how the entegrety of the vehicle will hold.
it is old, sorta wanna be careful i spose. Ive had chassis twist on me before and it shits me (with cages) 
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Location:
Rosanna, Melb
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 13:33
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I disagree with Mick, chassis rigidity is still very important for drift. There's no point having hard suspension if the rest of your car is going to twist around it like a wet tissue. And drift really isn't just a horsepower thing.
However on the original topic of how to stiffen your car up discretely I'm afraid I am no fountain of knowledge, though it seems strut braces, cage or seam welding are the preferred methods.
Hen
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 13:42
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Sway bars made a big difference for me, You can get under chasis bracing, here are some examples:
For rear of Altezza (Cusco)
For the front (beatrush)
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 13:51
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i agree
i want a balanced chassis but with decent mounts of hp for fun
seam welding sounds a lil expensive
underbody struts can be fabricated though??
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 21:50
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be like a drag racer wanting good turn in wouldn't it?i cant see the point in wasting money on stiffness in a drifter when it isn't used.your not applying the same forces to the chassis you are to a race car.grip equals twist,slip it wont twist much at all.like with improved production racing,if you dont have the money to spent on the setup and or new race tyres all the time etc using rubber bushes instead of nothelan etc can bring down the lap times.the flex in the bushes actual keeps the tyre on the deck giving more grip.in a race car you want to try and get the slip out of the car in drift you want it.because of the much lower speeds in drift front end grip is always there unless geometry is up the shit.
mick
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 22:21
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Notice the white bars. This can help a bit on stiffness
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 22:29
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didnt help him!lmao
those bars will do bugger all for stiffness,unles it was welded to the rail as the tube will flex all over the place.a cage or half cage would work much much better.
mick
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Frankston, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 22:33
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| kingmick wrote on Thu, 13 October 2005 07:50 |
because of the much lower speeds in drift front end grip is always there unless geometry is up the shit.
mick
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Man you kinda ruled your own statement out in that last sentence. With front end grip and no grip at the back, the entire chassis is weighting out on one outside wheel... Especially when negative camber is concerned... Meaning that during a drift you are getting more chassis twist than you would in most racing situations... Get yourself a front and rear brace I say...
Kev.
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Wed, 12 October 2005 22:42
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 01:11
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| Phrostbyte wrote on Thu, 13 October 2005 08:33 |
| kingmick wrote on Thu, 13 October 2005 07:50 |
because of the much lower speeds in drift front end grip is always there unless geometry is up the shit.
mick
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Man you kinda ruled your own statement out in that last sentence. With front end grip and no grip at the back, the entire chassis is weighting out on one outside wheel... Especially when negative camber is concerned... Meaning that during a drift you are getting more chassis twist than you would in most racing situations... Get yourself a front and rear brace I say...
Kev.
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lol no i didnt!if one end is gripping and the other isnt there is much less twist.if both ends grip you will get twist.a drift car will get far far less twist than a race car.same as you have less chance of breaking a diff in drifting as the slip takes stress of were as grip puts stress loading on the diff.this is why rolling starts are coming into fashion in circuit racing.i hate rolling starts,alot in a standing start but it does break things alot more.
mick
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 01:45
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U think i may be able to implement these chassis bracings onto a MA61 Supra (with a lil fabrication)?
Are they effective?
Are they expensive?
Cheerz....
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 03:35
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OMG, that is so feckin stupid..
did you even look at the pictures before you posted??
those flat bars will twist and flex and not contribute anything...
and bracing the boot?? what? to hold the shopping better??
gimme a break....
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Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 03:40
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How about rivets, stewart? 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 03:51
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thers not one brace posted above, nor provided in that link, that will do a single fricken thing (power steering triangulated support is excepted)
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 03:51
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ahh dude... they should have rivetted the flat steel bars in ... "D1 READY"
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 03:58
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If anyone is silly enought to purchase any of the above products shown on that Sprinter then you may be interested in purchasing my anti-abduction napkin set. These napkins will ward off all alien abductions, money back guarantee 
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:24
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Me thinks a lot of people install this stuff/shit then suffer the placebo effect and think its improved it.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:28
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anything else??????
what can i do to stiffen chassis without using roll cage?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:28
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hey those front frender braces could stop my fenders from caving in near the doors!
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Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:33
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Oh goody here we go again 
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:34
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this is what he had to say
"It feels really really neutral/stable going around corners, I get much much more feel for how the tires are gripping and the car's movement. I can also feel all the suspension sway in how the car corners and definately need to upgrade sway bars - I didn't realize before how much sway my car had due to the large amount of body roll the ae86's unibody chassis has.
But, since I am now readjusting to how the car reacts with the additional stiffness I couldn't even maintain the same control in a 'drift-nut' that I did before.
It has a lot more grip and wants to push (after a slight mistake) a lot easier than before. I played around with shock settings and have gotten to what feels like a good comprimise in how the vehicle handles - but what I really need is seat time, and maybe 15-20 more HP.
Also I'm moving down from 195 to 185's in the rear which should help, both with the fact that the tire diamater drops a little (effectively lowering my gear ratio) and providing a slightly smaller contact patch which will again change how the car reacts/feels."
The best would be a cage welded to your suspension points, but if you want to keep the back seats and everything looking stock this is what you should look for.
And dont listen to these guys comments, they dont no I'm have been a rally driver for 10 years.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:38
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| DriftX wrote on Thu, 13 October 2005 14:28 |
anything else??????
what can i do to stiffen chassis without using roll cage?
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Sway bars, any bracing that is triangular or circular in shape may help as well, they are far stronger than flat or rectangular shaped bars.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:42
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awesome!!!
appreciate the help every1.... 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:50
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| Quote: |
Sway bars, any bracing that is triangular or circular in shape may help as well, they are far stronger than flat or rectangular shaped bars.
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Bwahahaha all you did was paraphrase what kingmick had previously written and used it in the wrong context
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a roll cage that connects all the towers and is triangulated properly will give you all the stiffness needed
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mick meant a triangular structure not triangular tubing you numb nut Rona
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And dont listen to these guys comments, they dont no I'm have been a rally driver for 10 years.
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Some kents play golf for 40 years and never get any good at it or know SFA so you comment means nothing
I do not claim to know shit but I like to think I have some common sense. Some of the people though who you have told this guy not to pay attention to actually do have experience and knowledge and so far have made more sense than those retarded pics that have been posted.
In the end it's your own money to spend as you please
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:55
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like i said, i appreciate every1's comments on this topic
im trying to get good ideas of what to do
cheers...
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 04:59
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The shape of the tubing is also gonna help and also in the terms of a strut brace it doesn't have a shape dickhead, the tubing does and this is what i was reffering too. Stop being a fuckwit and grow up.
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 05:00
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[quote title=ke382TG wrote on Thu, 13 October 2005 14:50]| Quote: |
Sway bars, any bracing that is triangular or circular in shape may help as well, they are far stronger than flat or rectangular shaped bars.
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Bwahahaha all you did was paraphrase what kingmick had previously written and used it in the wrong context
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I do not claim to know shit but I like to think I have some common sense.
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You wouldn't no what common sense is even if it slap you on the back of your head. The ignorance
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 05:06
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| Quote: |
The shape of the tubing is also gonna help and also in the terms of a strut brace it doesn't have a shape dickhead, the tubing does and this is what i was reffering too. Stop being a fuckwit and grow up.
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Rona, have a look at the GOOD strut braces and they are a triangular structure. Strut tower to strut tower to firewall
Of course tubing shape, diameter, quality makes a difference to the structural integrity but in you comment you were clearly confused and are now trying to cover yourself
Triangular tubing? Show me a car that is using triangular tubing in a non-gimmick use and I will be damn impressed.
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You wouldn't no what common sense is even if it slap you on the back of your head. The ignorance
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Yeah you're probably right I would love a few engineers to cast an eye over this thread and just laugh themselves silly
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 05:15
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Actually I was perfectly clear in what I was saying and if you look at a rear strut brace on something like an AE86 for example (we are talking aftermarket here obviously) it just joing the struts together.
They're was a for sale thread recently with these new fandangled rectangular bars said to be stronger than round bars (cough bullshit cough). And yes in term of front strut braces they are also mounted to the fire wall to create a rectangular shape.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 05:23
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Rona Rona Rona, this is not something you can often read about in Motor magazine or the like
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Actually I was perfectly clear in what I was saying and if you look at a rear strut brace on something like an AE86 for example (we are talking aftermarket here obviously) it just joing the struts together.
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A standard AE86 doesn't have rear STRUTS it has a live axle with captive springs and separate shock absorbers. The top mounting point for the shocks is where this brace is mounted Sorry to get all detailed and picky on you but that's what you specialise in so you can cop a bit back
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And yes in term of front strut braces they are also mounted to the fire wall to create a rectangular shape.
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Triangular
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 05:30
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Please tell me the new forums will put an end to this ^^^
KE38: I was enjoying Auto-ignoring Rona, until you came along and kept quoting him. Then I had to read that crap to see what the hell you were talking about.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 05:32
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| Quote: |
KE38: I was enjoying Auto-ignoring Rona, until you came along and kept quoting him. Then I had to read that crap to see what the hell you were talking about.
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Sorry for the inconvenience.
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Chassis Stifness???
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Thu, 13 October 2005 05:35
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Shit, grow up the both of you.
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