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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sat, 11 December 2004 07:50
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has anybody converted their steering box equipped ke corolla to steering rack and if so what model did you get the parts from?
i have looked at a ke70 rack but its too wide and would need to be narrowed where the inner tie rods mount to use it in my ke11.
(the distance between the bottom arm mounting bolts to the subframe has to be the same as the distance between the inner tie rods)
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 12 December 2004 07:43
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close, the distance between the strut pivot point and the lower arm pivot point must be the same length as the tie rod.
this will mean, using KE10 steering arms, the that rack width is small than the distance between lower arm pivot points (side to side)
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 02:09
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i mean where the two lower arms bolt to the crossmember, this distance should be the same as the distance between the two inner tie rod ends. no room for a rack on a ke 10 with the lower wishbone instead of a lower arm as on a ke20
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 02:54
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| syncro wrote on Tue, 14 December 2004 13:09 |
i mean where the two lower arms bolt to the crossmember, this distance should be the same as the distance between the two inner tie rod ends. no room for a rack on a ke 10 with the lower wishbone instead of a lower arm as on a ke20
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nope, think again 
the distance you are talking about never changes... but the lower arms change in effective length (due to angle changes) and it is the position of the lower arm with respect to the tierods that is of _utmost_ importance. bump steer is a feature of the geometry between the tierods and the lower arms.. not the distance between lower arms..
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 09:42
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no stewart i mean that the rack length between where the two inner joints pivot has to be the same as the distance between where the two lower arms pivot, the length of the tie rods can be changed easily enough. has anyone found a suitable rack or has anyone shortened a rack to suit a ke 10, 20 or 30.
im thinking if i try it on my ke11 ill need to fit a ke20 crossmember and struts too as the ke 10 and 11 have a lower wishbone.
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 09:42
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no stewart i mean that the rack length between where the two inner joints pivot has to be the same as the distance between where the two lower arms pivot, the length of the tie rods can be changed easily enough. has anyone found a suitable rack or has anyone shortened a rack to suit a ke 10, 20 or 30.
im thinking if i try it on my ke11 ill need to fit a ke20 crossmember and struts too as the ke 10 and 11 have a lower wishbone.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 09:53
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fark.. just listen to what joel and i said .. it is the tierod length, angle and position that is critical, and it is the tie rods that determine the rack width. not the other way around...
joel said it very eloquently with:
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For zero bump steer the control arms and steering arms need to be identical in length. Also they need to be in a parallelogram with each other. eg. The ratio of the difference in height between the control arm inner pivot point and the steering arm inner pivot point, needs to be the same as the difference between the control arm outer pivot point and the steering arm outer pivot point.
Cheers
Joel
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heck, don't believe us, just find some good racecar engineering books or call up a competent engineer 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Castlemaine Vic
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 10:12
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iv got an ae86 rack steering in my ke25, light as a feather.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 22:30
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Yeah I like using the AE86 steering rack (same as KE70). They are cheap to purchase reconditioned - just under $200. Also you can get the quaif (spelling?) quick rack for them. They are one of the narrowest non-powersteer RWD Toyota racks I could find.
There is a small RWD starlet we didn't get in Aus, I think it is a KP60 or something? I've heard these have a smaller rack but would be hard to find.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 23:11
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KE70 rack is nice (Quaife? there's one for sale atm here), but is too wide for KE10.. but if yu swap in the whole KE70 front end and have 4" wider track... now we're talkin 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Tue, 14 December 2004 23:24
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Yeah even in the RA28 the KE70/AE86 rack is around 50mm too wide (25mm per side).
This caused massive bump steer issues as you could imagine. But i've slightly sortened the rack and moved the control arm pivot points out to make up the 25mm each side. Now it feels great plus a wider track, move neg camber.. It's all good.
Just need to get it engineered now which from discussions with the local engineer wont be a problem.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Wed, 15 December 2004 14:49
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i don't ever recall anything that had close to the same length suspension arm and tie rod except a purpose built race car. Ackerman(sp?) needs an offset steering knuckle so you're pretty much forced to have a shorter tie rod.
isn't the trick on production cars just keeping them parallel, to minimize the change/bump steer?
I MAY/CAN BE COMPLETELY WRONG.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Wed, 15 December 2004 15:11
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LOL, the way they do it in production cars is to have the tierods as Joel said (when looking from frotn of car), but they mount the rack backwards (when looking from top of car). this way you get the ackermann without the bumpsteer.
the actual relation between the steering knuckle pivot and the tie rod end pivot is not that important for bump steer, but it will affect where the rack needs to be placed for correct ackermann.
actually, on production cars there is a tendency to provide "bump toe-in" so that when joe gumby takes his falcadore too fast thru a corner and hits a bump, it will understeer straigth into a pole (the safest way to crash as opposed to losing tail). having bump induced toe-out is baaad mkay.
no no, the tierod and lower arm length can be the same, the rack doesn't need to be as wide as the lower arm pivots at all... i could draw a pic, but i already have in a previous thread and cbf
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Thu, 16 December 2004 08:46
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the kp60 rack is narrower than the ke70 rack, i had an ae86 front crossmember,lower arms, rack and struts on my 4age powered ke35 and the front wheels would scrub when turning tightly and it used to bump steer, there was too much neg camber too because the strut tops were too close. i changed it for a crossmember, rack, struts, antirollbar etc from a kp61 starlet and it worked perfectly.
the kp61 rack length between the inner ends was the same as the distance between the lower arm pivots on the starlet crossmember mabey toyota did it this way for shits and giggles or mabey there is a reason for it? if you stick an unshortened rack from a ke70 in to a ke35, with the tie rods shortened to suit, when you hit a bump in the road that wheel will toe in.
i only asked if anyone had come across a suitable rack as the rwd starlets are not available here for the raping of steering racks and other handy components. i did not say the lower arms had to be the same length as the tie rods.
@turbora28 thanks for the info on your conversion, when you say you narrowed the rack do you mean where the inner tie rod ends attach? and you say you moved the lower control arms out 25mm? sounds to me like you were trying to make the distance between the lower arm pivots the same as the distance between your inner tie rod ends.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 19 December 2004 09:09
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Starlet rack shouldn't be that hard to source, just get a few sent over from NZ. There are heaps of rusted out ones floating around.
Callum
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 19 December 2004 22:59
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callum, do you know if the rack ends of the KP will thread into the KE1 or KE2 tierods?? if so, that could be a neat way to go...
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 19 December 2004 23:29
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Sorry, I have a KE25 and a starlet here, but the Starlet no longer has a Starlet rack in it. 
Callum
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 19 December 2004 23:40
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| Purple_Beasty wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 10:29 |
Sorry, I have a KE25 and a starlet here, but the Starlet no longer has a Starlet rack in it.
Callum
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LOL  no worries, i have more important things to be doing for the moment.. i may have to get back to you about starlet racks if i can't convince an engineer abotu the merits of 4" extra track
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:16
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I consulted a person far more knowledgeable than me so this may help.
| Quote: |
quote:
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Got a quick random question for you.
Would KE10 or 20 tie rod ends screw into a starlet rack?
Callum
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
God knows if theyre 14mmx1.5 mm most likely if not make them fit i just made tie rods for glenns car as its got high strength 1/2"rose joints for tie rod ends now
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Wed, 22 December 2004 07:56
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are ke1x and ke2x tierods the same thread as ke3x tierods? i had some ke3x tierods on an ae86 rack a few years ago and from what i remember the starlet and ae86 have the same thread.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Wed, 22 December 2004 08:11
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well... KE10 has two different threads for tie rods, a coarse pitch, and a fine pitch. just to complicate things
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Fri, 24 December 2004 04:45
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feck never knew that, so chances are the new outer tie rods in my glove box wont fit!
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Mon, 27 December 2004 02:31
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| twincam_ke20 wrote on Tue, 14 December 2004 21:12 |
iv got an ae86 rack steering in my ke25, light as a feather.
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how did you fit this to your ke25? did you fit the complete ae86 crossmember, lower arms, struts etc? or did you fab some mounts for the rack and mount it to the ke25 crossmember?
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sat, 15 October 2005 09:14
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| oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 15 December 2004 10:11 |
KE70 rack is nice (Quaife? there's one for sale atm here), but is too wide for KE10.. but if yu swap in the whole KE70 front end and have 4" wider track... now we're talkin
Cya, Stewart
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Like this
http://www.koti.phnet.fi/crash/Flame/PICT1767_1.jp g
KE70 x-member, lower arms and TA12 struts fitted to KE20. Struts will change to TE71 ones. On image above, strut tops are in stock position,but will be moved outward.
And the rest is here: http://www.koti.phnet.fi/crash/Flame/
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sat, 15 October 2005 09:30
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Pasi, thats MAGIC
how much camber is there is stock position? will the TE7X ones change the stub axle angle? (KPI?)
it's looking very very good
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sat, 15 October 2005 09:42
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I didn't measure the KPI angle, but changing struts cause of thicker axle and wider bearing.
Pics you see are just from test fitting, and havent measured anything, cause some bits will be modified a bit.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 16 October 2005 08:55
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also check out this site
www.1uzfe.com
uses wat i believe to be a TE72 steering rack and cut off cross member mounts
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 16 October 2005 10:51
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| domasik wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 18:55 |
also check out this site
www.1uzfe.com
uses wat i believe to be a TE72 steering rack and cut off cross member mounts
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Last time i looked, he modified the TE27 x-member to suite starlet's rack&pinion.
And if you do this, you get a load of bump steer
Did some measuring and noticed that TE71 strut has a minimum amount less neg camber (1 or 2 deg) and angle bearing is about 2mm more outward than early TA12 has.
So no significant differences on them.
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 16 October 2005 11:13
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Haven't done any measuring but I was thinking a Mk1 escort steering rack might come close for a KE.
Like I said I haven't done any measuring but it might be another option to investigate.
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Sun, 16 October 2005 12:04
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| BradW wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 21:13 |
Haven't done any measuring but I was thinking a Mk1 escort steering rack might come close for a KE.
Like I said I haven't done any measuring but it might be another option to investigate.
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Isn't escort's rack on front side?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Mon, 17 October 2005 07:04
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| Toycrash wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 20:51 |
| domasik wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 18:55 |
also check out this site
www.1uzfe.com
uses wat i believe to be a TE72 steering rack and cut off cross member mounts
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Last time i looked, he modified the TE27 x-member to suite starlet's rack&pinion.
And if you do this, you get a load of bump steer
Did some measuring and noticed that TE71 strut has a minimum amount less neg camber (1 or 2 deg) and angle bearing is about 2mm more outward than early TA12 has.
So no significant differences on them.
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if you read through carefully u see he actually ends up using the te72 rack and dtches the starlet one
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Mon, 17 October 2005 07:18
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| domasik wrote on Mon, 17 October 2005 17:04 |
if you read through carefully u see he actually ends up using the te72 rack and dtches the starlet one
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Te72 track wider than TE27 track = bump steer.... unless you would like to show us otherwise?
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Mon, 17 October 2005 08:24
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[quote title=domasik wrote on Mon, 17 October 2005 17:04
if you read through carefully u see he actually ends up using the te72 rack and dtches the starlet one[/quote]
Nope! He is using TE27 x-member and welded AE72 rack holders in it. For the rack it self, he doesn't say what he is using. He is comparing starlet and MR2 racks. But allso has an AE72 rack...
But as said, if he doesn't shorten the rack, or widen the lower control arm fixing points, he WILL have massive bumpsteer.
And for me, that's not an option.
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Mon, 17 October 2005 10:24
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| Toycrash wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 22:04 |
| BradW wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 21:13 |
Haven't done any measuring but I was thinking a Mk1 escort steering rack might come close for a KE.
Like I said I haven't done any measuring but it might be another option to investigate.
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Isn't escort's rack on front side?
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Yes, I think you are right, in which case it wont work on the rear of the crossmember.
I'll take my suggestions and leave now
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ke corolla steering rack conversion
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Mon, 17 October 2005 10:43
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| BradW wrote on Mon, 17 October 2005 20:24 |
| Toycrash wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 22:04 |
| BradW wrote on Sun, 16 October 2005 21:13 |
Haven't done any measuring but I was thinking a Mk1 escort steering rack might come close for a KE.
Like I said I haven't done any measuring but it might be another option to investigate.
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Isn't escort's rack on front side?
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Yes, I think you are right, in which case it wont work on the rear of the crossmember.
I'll take my suggestions and leave now
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Actually it might work...
If you have rhd wehicle, you take lhd rack and flip it around...  hmmm... Let's stick with Toyparts
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