| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Thu, 20 October 2005 13:35
|
 |
Toyota All Toyota models manufactured locally or imported by Toyota Australia since 1987 will operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel except as listed below. The following models will not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel due to material compatibility issues: Camry with carburettor engines pre July 1989 and Corolla pre July 1994. Supra - pre May 1993, Cressida - pre Feb 1993, Paseo - pre Aug 1995, Starlet - pre July 1999. Land Cruiser - pre Aug 1992, Coaster - pre Jan 1993, Dyna - pre May 1995, Tarago - pre Oct 1996, Hilux , Hiace, & 4 Runner - pre Aug 1997, Townace - pre Dec 1998.
source
http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/stories/s1466787.ht m
i wonder how this ethanol fuel compare to 98octane or race gas? Is it suitable for high boost applications?
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Thu, 20 October 2005 16:12
|
|
|
that depends, do you undertsand the calorific values of the fuel?
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Thu, 20 October 2005 17:01
|
|
|
that shit aint going any where near my car
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Thu, 20 October 2005 23:33
|
|
|
Ethanol is very similar to methanol - much higher octane than petrol, but much lower calorific value. In other words this E10 stuff would be a good thing if your engine was specifically tuned to run it, but on a performance engine tuned for normal petrol it's best avoided.
|
|
|
Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Thu, 20 October 2005 23:59
|
|
| old_mr2 wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 03:01 |
that shit aint going any where near my car
|
indeed id rather pay a bit more for my petrol
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 00:08
|
|
|
i have a feeling that when this comes in, normal non ethanol petrol will go up in price again, for no reason what so ever.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 00:12
|
|
I don't think you'd notice a performance difference with E10, assuming your car can run on it (ie, that it wont ruin your injectors or fuel lines/pumps etc). And I doubt it'd reduce the life of your engine. I'd have to look into it's effect on turbo engines. With it's higher octane, and slightly lower energy, wouldn't it be fine for most turbo applications, as they run a little rich anyway?
Honda has a list of cars that can run it, and my car isn't one of them. I might ring them and find out why.
I'm glad we're FINALY getting E10 back. That bullshit with Howard and his bitching 'cuz his friends where missing out on making money, GAH! Then ACA and Today Tonight getting their hands on it. *sigh*
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 00:15
|
|
|
That latest price increase of petrol was due to the higher price of production costs not the price of crude oil. I would not be thinking of running a performance car on a E10 blend, but the guzzler jeep on the other hand well thats a different story.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 00:25
|
|
| Fattony wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 10:15 |
I would not be thinking of running a performance car on a E10 blend...
|
Why not?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 04:07
|
|
| oldcorollas wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 02:12 |
do you undertsand the calorific values of the fuel?
|
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 04:11
|
|
|
Indeed from crude experiments in chem last year and year 11 (change in enthalpy) it is easily ascertained that burning ethanol does no produce as much energy as other fuel soruces.
|
|
|
Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 04:15
|
|
yeah of course i do, there those things you watch when on a diet.
i'm not stupid,
*initially thought amount of energy actually released in a fiven amount of fuel, had a quick read up at work, Amount of heat generated by a given mass of fuel when it is completely burned*
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 04:21
|
|
|
Yeah it burns colder and has slightly less energy. I don't see how this would be much of a problem when mixed at 10%.
|
|
|
Location:
Penrith, Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 05:47
|
|
well I have seen a test done on beyond tomorrow. They got 4 identical btrand new cars and filled the up up, one with premium, one with normal unleaded, one with E5 and one with E10, then they can them in circles and a consistant speed until they ran out of fuel, first went premium then unleaded then E5 then E10. So kays wise E10 is your best bet. But when it comes down to performance and wich will run your car better, not longer, I would go for premium (98 octane)
thats my 2 bob
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 06:17
|
|
i think 180deg celcius is the perfect temp for metal on metal contact with minimum wear.
so if this stuff burns cooler you would need to get your engine tuned for it otherwise it WILL wear out quiker.
im never putting this SHIT in my car.
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 06:55
|
|
| illuminatus wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 16:17 |
i think 180deg celcius is the perfect temp for metal on metal contact with minimum wear.
so if this stuff burns cooler you would need to get your engine tuned for it otherwise it WILL wear out quiker.
im never putting this SHIT in my car.
|
how to heck did you work that out? 180deg? link to reference article please 
oh, and did you know there are no metal on metal wearign surfaces in an engine?
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 07:23
|
|
| oldcorollas wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 16:55 |
| illuminatus wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 16:17 |
i think 180deg celcius is the perfect temp for metal on metal contact with minimum wear.
so if this stuff burns cooler you would need to get your engine tuned for it otherwise it WILL wear out quiker.
im never putting this SHIT in my car.
|
how to heck did you work that out? 180deg? link to reference article please
oh, and did you know there are no metal on metal wearign surfaces in an engine?
|
thats what my mechanic told me. i took his word for it.
what about cams and where they sit, where con rods are connected to your crank, etc. please explain how thats not metal on metal.
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 07:33
|
|
LOL @ your mechanic.... so he has done wear tests or is an expert in tribology? link to REFERENCES 
hmm... metal to metal contact is that awful sound you hear just before you motor siezes up.
ALL wear surfaces in an engine have an oil film, so the metal never comes into contact.. perhaps with the exception of piston rings when they are wearing in.. but in normal operation, there should be no metal to metal contact...
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 09:20
|
|
| illuminatus wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 16:17 |
im never putting this SHIT in my car.
|
It's not shit. If oil companies weren't dickheads, we would have been using Ethanol instead of lead in petrol and all cars would be tuned for it.
Ethanol raises petrol's octane rating and makes the fuel burn more evenly and completely.
The heat of your car is regulated by your thermostat. When your car gets to operating temperature, the thermostat opens and lets the coolant go through your radiator. This would just take a minute or so longer to happen. As I understand it, if the car cools back down again, the thermostat closes again. So once at operating temperature, the heat of the actual engine would be held consistant. So your point is rendered totaly redundant illuminatus, as the engine wont actualy run any cooler after being warmed up.
I'm not sure how adding ethanol effects things in the combustion chamber (appart from making the fuel burn more completly and adding octane). Anyone out there know? (and I don't mean those of you who where 'told by a friend who knows a mechanic')
I wonder if the loss of power in E10 from lack of energy would be counteracted by the more completly burning fuel?
The reason ethanol isn't good for everyones engines is 'cuz they can wear plastic or rubber parts in the fuel delivery system.
|
|
|
Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Fri, 21 October 2005 11:00
|
|
Hi,
| Shraka wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 19:20 |
The reason ethanol isn't good for everyones engines is 'cuz they can wear plastic or rubber parts in the fuel delivery system.
|
Is that the only reason? If you removed the perishable components of your fuel delivery system, you can run E10 in your engine? Plus a re-tune of the engine, I assume?
I doubt that E10 would be kind ot carbs.
seeyuzz
river
|
|
|
Location:
Bayside Melbourne.
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
|
Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sun, 23 October 2005 06:33
|
|
| river wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 21:00 |
Hi,
| Shraka wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 19:20 |
The reason ethanol isn't good for everyones engines is 'cuz they can wear plastic or rubber parts in the fuel delivery system.
|
Is that the only reason? If you removed the perishable components of your fuel delivery system, you can run E10 in your engine? Plus a re-tune of the engine, I assume?
I doubt that E10 would be kind ot carbs.
seeyuzz
river
|
I'm fairly sure that's the only problem.
The tuning gets more radical the more ethanol that's in the petrol. They have E85 cars in America that detect the petrol/ethanol mixture. So you can have anything from E0 to E85 in there. All the car does is change the tuning based on the Ethanol mix. With E10 though you don't have to change the tuning at all.
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 02:55
|
|
|
E85 wtf I thoght the Brazillian's had the highest Ethanol mix in fuel (somewhere in the vicinity of a 30-40% blend.
|
|
|
Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 03:03
|
|
Hi,
Crikey!!! Why don't I just pour some Vodka into the tank, and some brandy and schapps. At least if it brreaks down I can drink the feul tank contents.
seeyuzz
river
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 03:11
|
|
| Corona RT142 wrote on Mon, 24 October 2005 12:55 |
E85 wtf I thoght the Brazillian's had the highest Ethanol mix in fuel (somewhere in the vicinity of a 30-40% blend.
|
Brazil uses the most Ethanol. In the U.S. they have specific E85 cars. Although the infrastructure isn't there, so not many people use it. Apparently most people who have it don't even know they do.
|
|
|
Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 04:04
|
|
| dingaling wrote on Sun, 23 October 2005 16:07 |
| oldcorollas wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 17:33 |
ALL wear surfaces in an engine have an oil film, so the metal never comes into contact.. perhaps with the exception of piston rings when they are wearing in.. but in normal operation, there should be no metal to metal contact...
|
I dunno There is a degree of internal friction in engines, What about the valves? That would be a metal on metal wear surface would it not? ie the back of the valves as the spring pulls them back agaisnt the head. (pretty minimal wear i suppose)
|
Did i just sneak one past old corolla's the walking encyclopedia, or really have a genuine argument that can't be corrected :_)
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 04:57
|
|
| dingaling wrote on Mon, 24 October 2005 14:04 |
| dingaling wrote on Sun, 23 October 2005 16:07 |
| oldcorollas wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 17:33 |
ALL wear surfaces in an engine have an oil film, so the metal never comes into contact.. perhaps with the exception of piston rings when they are wearing in.. but in normal operation, there should be no metal to metal contact...
|
I dunno There is a degree of internal friction in engines, What about the valves? That would be a metal on metal wear surface would it not? ie the back of the valves as the spring pulls them back agaisnt the head. (pretty minimal wear i suppose)
|
Did i just sneak one past old corolla's the walking encyclopedia, or really have a genuine argument that can't be corrected :_)
|
oh sorry, i was working 
there is friction from the oil film of course.
valves are a metal on metal surface, however they are not sliding, the valve is gently(ish) let down onto the seat, and so i can't imagine they generate any friction losses as such, or result in any wear from friction.
i think the closest thing to metla on metal wear is going to be the piston rings at startup, and timing chains
basically, metal on metal wear will not last long.. likely to result in galling = bad 
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 05:13
|
|
|
can i run a 4age or 4agze on gas?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 05:29
|
|
| rthy wrote on Mon, 24 October 2005 15:13 |
can i run a 4age or 4agze on gas?
|
Gas? You mean LPG? Yes, but that's not exactly what this thread is about...
|
|
|
Location:
Noosa
Registered:
November 2004
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sat, 29 October 2005 03:09
|
|
Performance! who said anything about E10 being used in tuned performance applications?
Ferrari Ferrari does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.
Maserati Maserati does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.
P.S i failed computers at school....
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sun, 30 October 2005 03:22
|
|
| biggo wrote on Sat, 29 October 2005 13:09 |
Performance! who said anything about E10 being used in tuned performance applications?
Ferrari Ferrari does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.
Maserati Maserati does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.
P.S i failed computers at school....
|
Maserati runs modded fazza engines so thats not really a surprise.
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sun, 30 October 2005 03:40
|
|
Get ready for Mayhem Mayhem Mayhem 
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
September 2005
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sun, 30 October 2005 03:47
|
|
so a carb doesnt like E10 fuel is what u are tellin me?
how would a gen 1 or gen 2 3sge go? i dont know exactly what yrs or car they are from so i couldnt tell from the list at the top of the page.
with the whole unleaded/leaded and lead substitute valvesaver crap, i emailed toyota bout the 4k-c, they said even tho it used to run leaded it doesnt need to and does just fine on regular unleaded, i would think this is the case for many cars so im not sure but i think it may be relatively the same for a ethanol, if they have tube of stuff to put in u may not need it...who knows  mite send toyota another email.
catchyas
~andrew~
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sun, 30 October 2005 08:09
|
|
|
The leaded/unleaded thing is a totally different issue to the use of ethanol-blended fuels. And no you can't change the calorific value of a fuel by adding a tube of stuff to the tank.
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
September 2005
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sun, 30 October 2005 08:11
|
|
yeah thats wat i figured, i was just sayin about the whole leaded/unleaded deal.
i wasnt tryna change the calorific value by adding a tube of stuff, just try and prevent the damages by the ethanol to my car, but i dont think that can be done coz as u sed it is a different matter
~andrew~
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
July 2004
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Sun, 30 October 2005 08:37
|
|
| General_Bupkiss wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 15:47 |
well I have seen a test done on beyond tomorrow. They got 4 identical btrand new cars and filled the up up, one with premium, one with normal unleaded, one with E5 and one with E10, then they can them in circles and a consistant speed until they ran out of fuel, first went premium then unleaded then E5 then E10. So kays wise E10 is your best bet. But when it comes down to performance and wich will run your car better, not longer, I would go for premium (98 octane)
thats my 2 bob
|
If this was the same as the test they did on Today Tonigght or ACA or whatever, then that test was about as scientifically run as that shit pommy "mythbusters" ripoff, and i wouldnt believe it for a second.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 31 October 2005 05:44
|
|
E10 is being released at the same price of normal petrol(unleaded). They say when people start using it the price will go down. My A55 it will go down. Please tell me one thing that has gone down due to people using it more frequently. goverment at it again.
Also im sure people have noticed...LPG all of a sudden is rising in price dramatically. Its because more and more people are using it. Then when the goverment finally makes up more excuses *BANG* a Tax on LPG. The goverment is like a business, make as much profit and spend as little as it can, therefore they can have more holidays with their family on "business/terrorist" meetings(or summits as they like calling them lately.
GRRRR.
,
Adam
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 31 October 2005 05:57
|
|
| bloody_huge23 wrote on Mon, 31 October 2005 16:44 |
E10 is being released at the same price of normal petrol(unleaded). They say when people start using it the price will go down. My A55 it will go down. Please tell me one thing that has gone down due to people using it more frequently. goverment at it again.
|
If you adjust for inflation...
Computers.
Cars.
Petrol.
Cloths.
Swords.
And prettymuch anything else that is mass produced.
Ethanol will go down in price once more companies find it economicaly viable to produce and start to compete with eachother.  That needs a large demand.
But yes, the gov. are a bunch of money grabing arseburgers.
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 31 October 2005 06:03
|
|
Are we all forgetting the reason why Ethanol was put into petrol in the first place ie the Australian government subsidises and hence it was cheaper to buy than petrol. So some servo's bought it and started making mixes.
However in the states to manfacture ethanol from maize (Corn) it takes more energy to produce it then you create by burning the resulting ethanol so it is not viable.
Producing it in Aus via sugar cane however is more efficient but still extremely costly as all the manufacturing and distilling plants cost a lot to set up. Not to mention the fact that ethanol can never be made 100% anhydrous (it means it will always contain some water).
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 31 October 2005 06:11
|
|
are you sure the Aus government subsidises ethanol?
one of the main reasons for it's slow introduction is that they told the industry that it would only get 2 or 3 years of tax concessions, before being taxed as much as normal petrol..
energy sure, but when you are burning waste to generate heat to make a flammable liquid that you otherwise wouldn't have.. it's not that bad really.... compared to shipping in oil and refining that....
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: E10 fuel (and toyota's that can and cannot handle it)
|
Mon, 31 October 2005 06:17
|
|
Yes but where are you getting the energy to make it fossil fuels ie coal. Thus you are wasting these resources at a faster rate than necessary.
Hmmm they may have stopped the subsidies/tax concessions but that is why it was cheaper and some of the independent servos/and other providers took advantage of it.
|
|
|
