| Author | Topic |
|---|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Suspension on AE82
|
Mon, 24 October 2005 02:31
|
 |
Hey, I've been thinking of changing the suspension of the '82, I just figured I'd get some comments first.
I basically have a couple of options.
Save up and get the off-the-shelf whiteline kit which sounds pretty good in the article here .
OR, stick with the frankly, pretty damn good suspension I have and get a big fat rear sway bar.
Reason being, understeer scares the shit out of me and I had a big moment recently that I never want to repeat. I prefer my cars, fwd or not to wag the ass under heavy brakes/cornering. (my old civic was my best drifter - no handbrake) I find it more controllable and to me it's safer to spin than it is to plow into a wall without any hope of recovery.
I was thinking, the whiteline kit has a max of 22mm bar, and that gives fairly neutral handling. So, a 24mm adjustable bar (adjustments of ~22-26mm) sounds good for what I'd like.
There's always the option of upgrading to the whiteline kit after that, so I'm tempted to see how it goes.
Where would I get a custom sway bar made in adelaide and what'd be the ballpark cost?
Any comments appreciated.
|
|
|
Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 00:44
|
|
you civic was your best drifter? 
you mean it had the most tendency to oversteer when on the limit?
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 03:14
|
|
wack a rear strut tower brace in as well as one in the front. this makes a BIG difference to chasis rigidity and stops it understeering quite a bit, i dont know if you have the twinky or not but if you dont then grab a front sway bar off of a twinky and fit that up with new bushes and that will also help with the understeer. after doing those the next best thing i can think of without spending large amounts of money is to get some decent wheels ie 15's or 16' in about 6" rim and fit some good tyres on there with a fair bit of tred somehthing like a 205 or better, nothing beats mechanical grip, and then get a good aggressive wheel alignment, dont just have them align it to the manufactures specs try and get some one who knows what their talking about to do the alignment and have the camber and toe set up for performance and handling the way you want it.
the ol 82 when tricked up can handle very well
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 04:10
|
|
| truenosedan1 wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 10:44 |
you civic was your best drifter?
you mean it had the most tendency to oversteer when on the limit?
|
Yeah basically. Throttle off oversteer was fun as 
| Hunty wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 13:14 |
snip
|
I have, twinky, hatch, 15/195/50's, not sure what springs on the front, but I've been told stock on rear.
I was just quoted 540 for all new bushes, castor kit, and a 20mm adjustable rear bar (rrp on whiteline handling kit for ae82) I'm seriously considering it - it was 240 for just the sway bar, or 220 for a custom job from industrial springs. 200 for castor and all new bushes sounds pretty good to me. Not sure if it's worth the extra grand for the lowered spings and shocks though.
I'm wondering whether lowering would improve or ruin the handling. I think it's rather good at the moment - I can feel the wheels rising with a bump around a fast corner, but the stability isnt affected. I'm concerned that there wont be enough travel, that grip will be compromised and possibly the introduction of bump steer.
My main objective is really just the elimination of understeer without changing the dynamics too much.
A rear strut bar sounds interesting - I wouldnt expect it to do that much on such a light, stiff car though. How noticable is it?
I guess it's not that hard to make one.
Do you think 205 tyres would be a decent improvement over 195's?
I've been thinking about it already, so I'm really just wondering.
What specific tyres would be best - I dont really want to compromise wet grip with too much surface area.
Thanks
[Updated on: Tue, 25 October 2005 04:12]
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 05:38
|
|
khumo are poo
i had some pirelli P6000 185/60/14's on mine and they were really good.
but have been hearing good things about toyos new performance stuff, i guess its always a matter of compromise between wear and grip ie soft or hard compound rubber
re the rear strut bar, it made a noticeable difference when cornering hard, turn in is improved and mid corner stability is also improved, it "feels" as in the car is just more rigid and not twisting, its hard to describe but it make a difference you can feel well on my car it has anyway. minees a cs-x with lowered industrial springs twinky front strut and sway bars. I made up the strut brace myself with some mild blue square steel stuff you can get from bunnings for about $20 plus a couple pieces of plate steel, then cut and drilled the plate pieces in to little U shapped things with holes for the strut bolts then arc welded em to the steel rod. just make sure you get your measurements right, measure thrice cut once 
if you want pics drop me a line ill try n take some n post em up.
I wouldnt go the industrial springs again, mine were 50mm lower at front and 55-60mm lower at back but it reduced the travel so much that you hit the bump stops on big bumps and it really jars the body, plus they are bloody stiff! they were the heavy duty items i think it was $190 a set. personally if i was going to do it again i would get some good progressive rate springs and maybe lower it 25mm max and have them a little bit stiffer than std twin cam springs, just to help stop body roll, i'm anti body roll, its a car not a boat damnit! lol
Cheers
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 06:12
|
|
Probably in my first post in this thread ;P
Interesting that you didnt like the lowering Hunty, I was wondering if it'd be a bad thing, I think you've answered that question. I am pretty sure my front springs are already progressive rate so I think I might invest in the handling pack, some new tyres and a wheel alignment.
I guess a strut brace couldnt hurt either but I'm not a huge fan of the idea of losing storage flexibility.
Thanks for your input, now I'll have to stop wasting money on other things for a bit. Let you know how it goes.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 06:17
|
|
youd be surprised how little storage room is lost by putting a strut brace in the back
good luck with it mate, i'm thinking bout putting some new springs/shocks into mine and taking it to the track every now and then. Wouldnt want to get any dirt on the MR2 
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 06:24
|
|
| myne wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 16:12 |
Probably in my first post in this thread ;P
|
where has it gone? it dosnt say you eddited, but its not there..   im confused.
i will be buying the whiteline handling pack in a few weeks  , bursons have it for $420 i think(not installed). i will aslo get some new springs and shocks, not sure what sort/brand yet.
yeah those pirelli P6000s are damn good, but more expensive then most tyres i believe. i got to experiance them on the peugeot 206 gti 180 and it handled like a go kart , i was amazed.
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 06:33
|
|
It just says "here"
Ooooh you're getting it soon? Dont spose you want to get the full kit and tell us how it is?
If you can get the handling kit for 420, I imagine it'll be around the 1200$ mark for the full kit.
|
|
|
Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Tue, 25 October 2005 14:32
|
|
| Hunty wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 13:14 |
wack a rear strut tower brace in as well as one in the front. this makes a BIG difference to chasis rigidity and stops it understeering quite a bit, i dont know if you have the twinky or not but if you dont then grab a front sway bar off of a twinky and fit that up with new bushes and that will also help with the understeer.
|
As, in aids with more understeer. Unless the front bar is "matched" to the rear bar.
| Quote: |
then get a good aggressive wheel alignment, dont just have them align it to the manufactures specs try and get some one who knows what their talking about to do the alignment and have the camber and toe set up for performance and handling the way you want it.
|
Ask if the alignment shop knows what a "thrust line" is. Cause it'll be next to useless getting the rear set up, then doing the front and then having the car crab down the road.
http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.htm l Its for the nissan sentra but the info's still good.
There's other good stuff around just have a google for it Simple-strings, anybody
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 01:05
|
|
| myne wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 16:33 |
It just says "here"
Ooooh you're getting it soon? Dont spose you want to get the full kit and tell us how it is?
If you can get the handling kit for 420, I imagine it'll be around the 1200$ mark for the full kit.
|
HAHAHAA ohh yeah, LOL.
arr i think i needs more sleep.
i will be buying it in a few weeks, and i wont b buying the works kit, i will get the whiteline handline pack, and then get springs and shocks from other brands.
i was thinking bilstein or tien springs and koni shocks. does anyone know if they are good/worth the money?
or should i just go konis and kings springs?
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 01:37
|
|
kings are good, but u could get better? i think pedders are better, but that was on the ae86, was more stiffer... im looking to get pedders or similar springs for the ae82, currently on king superlows 
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 01:39
|
|
| rthy wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 11:37 |
kings are good, but u could get better? i think pedders are better, but that was on the ae86, was more stiffer... im looking to get pedders or similar springs for the ae82, currently on king superlows
|
Pedders suck, don't get them.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 01:40
|
|
|
oh wat... damm....
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 02:20
|
|
|
yeah ive heard bad things about pedders. dont get them if its important to u.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 02:49
|
|
|
wat about pedders shocks?
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 03:08
|
|
| rthy wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 12:49 |
wat about pedders shocks?
|
painted munroes
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 03:13
|
|
and are munroes any good?
wat about kyb, agx, koni or gabriels?
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 03:15
|
|
|
gabriels = munroe (they own gabriel), most ppl will say munroes are shit, get kyb best of the cheaper shocks, koni is exy but good.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 03:49
|
|
how much do kyb and koni go for these days?
i think the gabriels go for $50ea
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 03:52
|
|
|
I paid 65 each for KYB's but that was at 45% off
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 04:50
|
|
|
konis round the 200ish depending on if u want adjustable or not last time i had a look, altho that was for a mr2
|
|
|
Location:
Ryde
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 08:21
|
|
| rthy wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 13:19 |
how much do kyb and koni go for these days?
i think the gabriels go for $50ea
|
dude you keep quoting suspension prices in like every thread...and you keep getting it wrong....
you are giving the forum plebs too much hope
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 08:24
|
|
| KLR16V wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 17:39 |
ive got koni adjustable suspension in my 82.
the car corners like a go-cart...no body roll and little understeer. 
ive driven other 82s and 92s with other suspension modifications and i personally reckon that konis are the way to go.
only problem with teh konis is that they are a bit too hard and normal driving is such a rock hard trip
|
sounds good. i will have to go down that path.
was that koni coil overs, or koni shocks and other brand springs?
also how much did u pay roughly?
|
|
|
Location:
Ryde
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 08:30
|
|
[quote title=illuminatus wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 18:24 was that koni coil overs, or koni shocks and other brand springs?
also how much did u pay roughly?[/quote]
koni adjustable shocks with pedders springs
dont ask me about price coz the previous owner put them in
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 10:12
|
|
but gabriels gas shocks from supercheap are $50! (some black type)
if thats cheap then i run down and get some
i also sold a pair of prtty good koni adjustables for $150 awhile back... should i start kicking my self? 
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 10:17
|
|
| rthy wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 20:12 |
but gabriels gas shocks from supercheap are $50! (some black type)
if thats cheap then i run down and get some
i also sold a pair of prtty good koni adjustables for $150 awhile back... should i start kicking my self?
|
The gabriel should be that price cos they are cheap and nasty. May as well spend money on suspension as you are gonna reap the rewards in handling and it's your life anyway.
As for springs I sourced mine through Whiteline HQ they are dobinson and I have found them very good, standard ride height or lowered is the same price and i opted for HD standard. Great improvement in handling reduced roll and still maintain good ride. Bit more exy than kings at $160 a pair, but the thickness of the coil vs the standard spring is rediculous.
|
|
|
Location:
syd- northen beaches
Registered:
June 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 11:25
|
|
i was recomended munroe gas for my ae82...
can anyone comment on their quality at close to $700 installed?
oh if you have 205's on a twinky they will scrub like a bitch if lowered and occasionally srub on full lock.
cheers
|
|
|
Location:
Ryde
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Wed, 26 October 2005 11:42
|
|
yeah i recon 195/50/15's are the best
ive tried both 15,16,17 inch rims on my car.
anything bigger than 15inch seems to scrub too much.
also its dangerous. the bigger the diameter of the wheel, the more tendancy to flip as they increase the centre of gravity.
but it does help to buy some quality rubber
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Thu, 27 October 2005 00:00
|
|
| KLR16V wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 21:42 |
the bigger the diameter of the wheel, the more tendancy to flip as they increase the centre of gravity.
|
please explain...
i recon 16s are optimal, it wont flip as long as you know what your doing.
|
|
|
Location:
Ryde
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Thu, 27 October 2005 00:57
|
|
well, if you put bigger diameter wheels on a car, the height of the car will increase (unless a lower profile tyre is used)
i once raed an artile about some guy who fittered bigger wheels on a mini... because the centre of gravity was heigher it was more uncontolable and almost flipped around a pretty slow corner.
|
|
|
Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Thu, 27 October 2005 01:20
|
|
ahh ic. i just assumed that you would change the profile of the tyres cos its just stupid to change the rolling diameter of your tyre. if you dont then it will cause all sort of problems.
firstly your speedo will b WAY off, as well as your car being heaps slower(acceleration)/quiker(top speed).
also it will handle like shit.
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Fri, 02 December 2005 08:48
|
|
Just over a month on and I just took delievery of the Whiteline handling pack. (bushes, rear camber bolts and sway bar)
Havent fitted it yet, so I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.
|
|
|
Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Fri, 02 December 2005 15:28
|
|
I would have thought a front camber bolt would have been a better idea then a rear one. Kinda like an ash tray, great to have but next to useless on a motor bike.
Unless you've excessively lowered the car and its running way to much rear camber.
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Fri, 02 December 2005 20:20
|
|
They come std with front camber bolts.
Just another one of those little details that seperates a twinky from the rest.
|
|
|
Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Sat, 03 December 2005 11:58
|
|
Wow.
A car that would previously understeer slowly around a corner is now almost totally neutral until the very edge of traction when it understeers mildly. That understeer can be very easily converted into a quite mild oversteer by simply backing off and turning more or touching the brakes.
The rear camber bolts arent even in - I found out the aftermarket struts someone fitted dont have front camber so I decided to leave the rear as is. Luckily the fronts both have around 1* negative as they are.
Toe is around 2mm at the front and 2mm at the rear. I guess it could be refined more but I'm quite happy with the rediculous speeds it now corners at.
Tyre pressures are 45 front and 35 rear. I dunno if that's optimal but it felt pretty good and both outer tyres could be heard squeeling at the limit.
Bar is set to the stiffest setting "22mm"
You can actually feel the ass end coming around ever so slightly even on low speed corners, taking some of the load off the front outer tyre.
After a full tank of fuel driving through the hills at speeds I'd prefer not to confess to, I have to say this kit + alignment is a massive improvement. The car is more chuckable, the steering is a lot more direct and it gave me a lot more confidence, even on bumpy corners next to rock faces. It's almost an oversized gocart.
Highly recommended.
|
|
|
Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Sat, 03 December 2005 15:44
|
|
| myne wrote on Sat, 03 December 2005 22:58 |
Toe is around 2mm at the front and 2mm at the rear. I guess it could be refined more but I'm quite happy with the rediculous speeds it now corners at.
|
Is that toed in or out ?
|
|
|
Registered:
October 2005
|
|
Re: Suspension on AE82
|
Sat, 03 December 2005 21:06
|
|
|
out
|
|
|
