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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2004
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Request to check idea for progressive water injection / where to buy fast switching solenoid?
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Sat, 29 October 2005 04:03
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TITLE: Progressive Water Injection idea
PURPOSE: Inject water into intake plenum mirroring some percentage of fuel being injected. Water injection giving some great performance & engine temp engine benefits.
Can anyone check the following steps to confirm my understanding is correct here?
1/ Get and build duty cycle controller. Receive fuel injector incoming pulse and using the handheld controller to adjust the outgoing pulse to the water solenoid:
* http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC538 4
2/ Tap off existing fuel injector electronics for a reference signal [aquamist reckon you degrade the signal, so need a booster OR just use cold start injector signal? If using cold start injector maybe possible to plumb the water injector nozzle in there too?
3/ Pass signal through duty cycle controller to modify %water to %fuel. Eg: 10% water for fuel. Water injector nozzle size will be key in determining the pulse width to do this. Perhaps use reed relay to switch on the system at a certain MAF/AFM//TPS signal?
Limiting technology here appears to be a fast switching solenoid. Found the following:
- AUD$350 Aquamist high speed valve > $300AUD!
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/pic2/806-244/80 6-244.html
- US$40 Enginerunup 50ms switching solenoid:
http://www.enginerunup.com/water_solenoids.htm
So another question then being, does anyone know of a fast switching liquid flowing solenoid in Australia??
Cheers,
sj
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Request to check idea for progressive water injection / where to buy fast switching solenoid?
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Sun, 30 October 2005 07:37
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Your best bet is to buy a kit which has all the required bits, including the pump and solenoid, both of which are hard to find on their own. There was an in-depth discussion about this on PerformanceForums, lots of useful info so it would be worth your while checking it out.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Request to check idea for progressive water injection / where to buy fast switching solenoid?
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Tue, 01 November 2005 03:14
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Probably wouldn reccomend putting coolant through your cylinders...
Injectors will not rust very quickly using a water / methylated spirit (ethanol) mix.
Besides the fact that you can walk into any wreckers pull an injector off a old barina and the guy at the desk will probably tell you to take it to save him the work it takes to charge you $5 for it.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Request to check idea for progressive water injection / where to buy fast switching solenoid?
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Tue, 01 November 2005 04:46
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Realistically, as you're looking at 50:1 water coolant ratio and 10:1 fuel water, there will be bugger all coolant going through.
If the injectors do fail, it will be hard to tell without pulling them out and inspecting them (unless your motor blows up)...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Request to check idea for progressive water injection / where to buy fast switching solenoid?
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Tue, 01 November 2005 08:06
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Ben,
I aint an expert but i would think that glycol will have some adverse effect on combustion, and the residue from it burning couldn be too fantastic either, but i guess at 2ml for every litre of fuel it aint alot...
If you are tuning your car hard enough that it depends on the water to prevent detonation then i reckon you would wana make yourself the expert on what happens to the coolant.
Sjsj,
In line with what Ben & I have done, if you think that a fast switching solenoid is the limiting factor, then dont use it.
Buy the aquamist pump coz good pumps are hard to find. (Ben - how'd u go?) Then tap the electronics as you said, and use a fuel injector off anything. Just bear in mind that you will have experiment to calculate the duty. Roughly speaking, if injectors are clean and operating at rated psi, and cc/min for water injector is same as your fuel injectors, then your cycle should equal 10% (your mentioned target ratio) X number of cylinders, as a percentage of the injector cycle.
eg. 6 cylinder = 60% of the tapped injector pulse time to acheive a 10:1 overall fuel/water ratio.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Request to check idea for progressive water injection / where to buy fast switching solenoid?
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Sat, 05 November 2005 15:38
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| Ben Wilson wrote on Mon, 31 October 2005 11:27 |
I'm working on a similar system, but I'm using fuel injectors and adding either coolant or soluble oil to the water to stop the injectors rusting.
I've tested it and found that the setup works, I'm just leaving it to sit for a couple of months to see if anything blocks up...
Have a look at this:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8 33
thread for more info.
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Ben - thank you for the heads ups. Which then inspires me with the following:
1/ Plumb a signal-compatible water injector in to provide about 10% water, say in place of the cold-start injector:
eg: 7M (295cc*6cyc low impedance=1770cc/min)
Equivalents from http://www.toysport.com/webpages/Techinfo/Referenc es/injectors.htm
being dark grey 4AGE injector low impedance injector (182cc/min). Tap off one of the existing injector lines.
2/ Have a reservoir about 10% of fuel capacity (6-7 litres).. will check ford windscreen washers). Any ideas on cheap sources?
3/ Include a good pump, eg: aquamist or shurflow marine pumps. Experiences?
5/ Include some safety measures: eg: water-flow detection valve as well as reservoir low valve.
6/ Connect all up. Include leak-free plumbing.
Then modify the engine for higher performance
- more timing
- leaner burn:
(i) move stoich point up by 10% the O2 signal which adds a 0.27V to the signal if above 0.5V (eg: op-amp + reed relay?)
0.5V=(14.7:1)
0.77V=(13.2:1)
Idea is to let the ECU believe we are getting higher fuel such that it compensates with lower actual fuel sent to the injectors.
(ii) Modify AFM/MAF signal for leaner driving + more power. eg: Use digital fuel adjuster by Jaycar.
Fill water reservoir with 50:1 filtered water + coolant. then Enjoy!
Any suggestions for point (5) above. I know brake fluid has a check for in the reservoir when it gets below a certain point it flashes a LED in the dash. Any idea on a check valve that detets water flow? Very important as otherwise if water stopped flowing you could fry the engine!!
Cheers,
sj
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Request to check idea for progressive water injection / where to buy fast switching solenoid?
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Sun, 06 November 2005 22:25
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Can get washer bottles on some models that have low level sensors in them.
Would still suggest using some ethanol in the mix. Although it does not absorb quite as much (heat) energy as it changes state, it burns so it replaces some of the fuel you will be missing out on with a fuel. If that makes sense.
Experiment but about 30% is probably mid range. Not over 50% anyway.
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