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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Mon, 31 October 2005 16:16
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Heyas,
I bought some ARP head studs, and a cometic metal headgasket for my supra, i dont have any torque instructions from ARP with the studs (workshop maybe lost them? i dont know), and cometic told me to use ARP's specs.
I have read through this forums many mages of 7m torque settings etc, but there was no definitive answer on what the procedure for this combination might be.
I already blew one cometic headgasket only 200kms after installing it (long story), but now have the head back after $3000 of valves, springs, retainers and reco work - and i REALLY dont want to see it blow again.
So, does anyone have the proper ARP specs for torquing down the studs, secondly i read in one of the posts on here that people suggested that arp's specs were on the loose side and to perhaps go even tighter again? Any thoughts here?
Lastly, I am wondering if the surface of the head can be checked without having the motor removed? I really dont want to have the motor stripped down and the block decked, but the fact the last cometic gasket blew (even with arp bolts) makes me a tad weary. The engine did however have a possible air lock issue with the custom radiator setup.
The vehicle is a 650hp+ 7mgte by the way, so im not mucking around, but i really really really want to avoid pulling the motor out and stripping it to deck it etc, so im hoping it can be checked 'in car'.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
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On Probation
Location:
nsw
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Mon, 31 October 2005 22:54
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Where'd you get ur ARP studs ?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Mon, 31 October 2005 22:57
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the ARP website has the torque specs in a pdf
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 06:33
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Each ARP stud has a different torque specification depending on the stud's diameter & thread.
If they are 10x1.25mm (They will most likely be this or 12mm, I can't recall for the 7M), then the recommended torque setting is 60 foot pounds BUT ONLY when using ARP's supplied moly lube. Specs are different if you use oil, which from memory must be a monograde 30 weight oil.
Cheers
Phil
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 07:28
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got the studs from pascoe performance in vic - pascoe vale.
i cant find the arp website, anyone got a link?
argh so many different numbers for torque settings lol.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 07:48
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with engine oil lube it stated 120ft/lbs from memory or ~70 with arp moly lube
MAKE shure the block is strait, smooth and level, get the head hardness tested to make shure its not soft on the exhaust side
remove the rivets that are incorrectly placed on the gasket
goto www.supramania.com
Allan
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 08:17
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| TruenoGTAPEX wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 18:28 |
i cant find the arp website, anyone got a link?
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seriously dude - google??
im not going to link it on principle!
come to think of it, its be written many times on this forum already - search !
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 08:24
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in the time it took you to write that whine you could have helped a fellow toy-modder out 
ive already looked for arp's site BEFORE i made the initial post asking..
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=arp+he ad+stud+website&meta=
among other searches simply comes up with retailers sites.
what keywords did you use to get results on the arp site?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 08:34
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ok, got their site eventually but their catalogue is kinda confusing. i wish it was a simple 'HERES WHAT SPEC TO USE FOR THIS BOLT'
i dont have any arp moly lube left as this engines been together once before.
i found the part number from the arp site for the 7mgte studs, but it has a table showing thread sizes and stuff to look up the torque settings..
not being an idiot, but at the time time, not being a mechanic, im not really sure i want to risk my engine to my guesswork, as such i was just asking for a little bit of help.
http://www.arp-bolts.com/
is their site, theres some insane amount of reading to get to the torque table (page 24), then theres the bit showing the 7mgte part number (page 37).
any extra input would be appreciated.
thanks.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 09:55
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"remove the rivets that are incorrectly placed on the gasket"
??
which rivets are incorrectly placed?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 10:00
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After being ground off:
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 10:07
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is this a specific fault with cometic headgaskets?
im surprised they didnt suggest this fix when i emailed them. theres no mention of probs on their site.
But ill look into it further. that certainly makes sense anyways. but HKS ones have the same rivets dont they? wouldnt the rivets just squash away?
do all the rivets have to be removed? or just specific ones?
thanks for this help.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 10:15
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apparently just that one, i suggest you check it on your engine tho'
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 11:29
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| TruenoGTAPEX wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 19:24 |
in the time it took you to write that whine you could have helped a fellow toy-modder out
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yup, maybe, but how much extra are you learning about head studs by finding out for yourself??
so much more than xxxft/lbs im sure
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 11:48
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 22:29 |
| TruenoGTAPEX wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 19:24 |
in the time it took you to write that whine you could have helped a fellow toy-modder out
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yup, maybe, but how much extra are you learning about head studs by finding out for yourself??
so much more than xxxft/lbs im sure
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*nods* priceless, better then a drunk school girl eh marky! 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 12:58
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Email ARP directly. That's what i did when i wasn't sure on the torque specs. You should find a contact link somewhere on their homepage. Just give them the part number and ask away. They replied within about a week.
Eddie.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 18:14
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 12:29 |
| TruenoGTAPEX wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 19:24 |
in the time it took you to write that whine you could have helped a fellow toy-modder out
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yup, maybe, but how much extra are you learning about head studs by finding out for yourself??
so much more than xxxft/lbs im sure
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to be honest, i dont really want to learn what ft/lbs procedures, ive put together a few engines in my time, but this time round a workshop is doing it, i just want to tell them 'specs from arp are blah blah'. i dont think they need to hear any theory behind it.
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*nods* priceless, better then a drunk school girl eh marky!
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LOL! god i dunno which options more appealing, head studs or drunk girls.. *considers carefully* LOL.
Allan - do i know you? lol. hmm.. someones got some kind of profile on me i swear heheh.
thanks also allan for the heads up regarding the cometic gasket rivet issue. I emailed cometic, the following as soon as i saw that pic:
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From: Mark [mailto:melbccr@iprimus.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 6:11 AM
To: 'Info@cometic'
Subject: RE: MHG Torque settings
Hey Kevin, thanks for your prompt reply.
I have sent ARP a request for this information.
On another note, I was advised to remove certain rivets from the cometic headgasket, due to it possibly being a cause of my last cometic gasket failing?
I am curious to hear someone from your tech departments input into this.
Here are some pictures I was provided in regards to this matter:
Before:
http://www.stillsports.com/mkiii/rivit2.jpg
http://www.stillsports.com/mkiii/rivit1.jpg
After:
http://www.stillsports.com/mkiii/rivit3.jpg
thanks again for your time,
Mark
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His reply as follows:
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Mark,
In your situation I would strongly suggest removing any rivet that will not allow the head to sit completely flush on the block. The pictures I saw show that what you did was correct. The rivet would cause a problem by not allowing the head to be tightened down properly thus leading to gasket failure. You did the right thing by removing the rivet this time around. If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.
Kevyn Kistner
Technical Sales
Cometic Gasket
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Im surprised they dont mention upon sale that some rivets may need to be removed.. weird ey.
Anyone got a definitive answer on the ARP bolt thing at all? I have emailed them but if its going to take a week its a bit too long of a wait, so any people who have the exact info id be thankful to.
Again thanks for everyones input.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Tue, 01 November 2005 19:07
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I also sent this slight complaint to cometic, after he openly admitted the rivet should be removed.. hopefully theres some kind of answer or explanation....
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Thanks for your help again.
Could I ask how it is that cometic allowed such a flaw to make it to production, without supporting documentation to suggest that this may occur in some engine configurations?
I am somewhat disappointed as we are almost certain this contributed to the last cometic headgasket failure, and as such cost me AU$300 to replace the item a second time around.
I had been recommending cometic gaskets simply for the fact they were 1/3 of the price of a HKS one (and I had heard good things from a mechanic colleague who had been installing them on turbocharged Hondas here in Australia), but this flaw isn’t particularly a good one, especially if im recommending them to people!
I bought the gaskets through authorized channels and was not advised of such a flaw, and should another friend had not pointed out his rivet observation with aid of his photographs, we might have made the same mistake when putting the engine together this time around.
Thankyou for your time,
Mark
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Wed, 02 November 2005 01:23
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If this rivet is such an issue, you would think they would have fixed it by now or at least tell customers when they buy it. That is pretty poor form.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ARP Studs and Cometic MHG for 7MGTE (torque settings?)
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Wed, 02 November 2005 03:43
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| Quote: |
If this rivet is such an issue, you would think they would have fixed it by now or at least tell customers when they buy it. That is pretty poor form.
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yeah this is what i thought, and why i sent them an email. Im curious to read what they might reply. Will post reply when i get it.
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TruenoGTAPEX wrote on Wed, 02 November 2005 05:14
Allan - do i know you? lol. hmm.. someones got some kind of profile on me i swear heheh.
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Well lets just say you wont be geting an invite to any of my BBQ's, but seeing this helps out all 7M owners you get a reply
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well that sounds a bit harsh but considering i dont think i know you (do i?) im not surprised im not getting invites to your bbq's.
sheesh, take ONE friends sister to a yr12 formal a few years ago (as a favour) and get schoolgirl jokes ever since. LOL. Oh well.
Amusing how rumours go round
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!