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Location:
The Hills Area
Registered:
May 2005
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Car Audio Question...
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Thu, 03 November 2005 08:34
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I have some Pioneer 6 x 9s and I want to run them off an amp for quality sound. Just wondering what wattage amp would be best for them. They are 420watt speakers.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Thu, 03 November 2005 08:38
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peak power = ghey wif teh aids
RMS is more useful, and also the efficiency of the speakers
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Thu, 03 November 2005 08:59
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50wrms would be more the enough for each speaker.
remmeber, shit amp = shit sound. get a jaycar response amp, theyre on par with the standard stuff these days and 1/2 the price (pioneer claion kenwood etc)
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Thu, 03 November 2005 10:08
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if im not mistaken i think pioneers are 80w rms
so id be sayin try and get an amp that matches, because if not the amp starts to distort b4 the the speakers do so this actual can do damage to the speaker + doesnt give you the best performance from the speakers
~andrew~
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Thu, 03 November 2005 13:24
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a decent 4x50wrms is more then enough to run 4 speakers and a sub 
whichis what i do.
2 channels run teh speakers parallel (i have no front rear fade for them)
and the other 2 bridged for the sub.
i have a Blaupunkt GTA450 which is a 640watt 4x50wrms or 4x80wrms at 2 ohm (yup, cheap amp which is 2 ohm stable). it was $250 about 6 months ago.
the same setup in a car with less sound dapening sounds quite shit to be honest though. sound dampen teh boot, rear parcel front doors and maybe the roof and it makes a big difference, and you also have almost no external noise too.
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Location:
The Hills Area
Registered:
May 2005
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 01:06
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peak power = ghey wif teh aids
RMS is more useful, and also the efficiency of the speakers
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correct demundo...
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remmeber, shit amp = shit sound. get a jaycar response amp, theyre on par with the standard stuff these days and 1/2 the price (pioneer claion kenwood etc)
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The general rule in car audio is you get what you pay for. Jaycar however is one of the exceptions in the sense that they keep their overheads down by not doing wanky displays at every autoshop and show and all the other wanky retail shit. They mainly just sell through magazines and make a very good value for money product. There are still better amps around but bang for buck go for it.
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i have a Blaupunkt GTA450 which is a 640watt 4x50wrms or 4x80wrms at 2 ohm (yup, cheap amp which is 2 ohm stable). it was $250 about 6 months ago.
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I am not famillar with this model. From this i am getting the idea that this amp has a impendence switch??? Not a common thing... What happens when you flick it to two ohms and you bridge two channels? BANG, WAFT, then the smell of burning IC's me reckons. But i guess you just dont do that ay...
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Oh i forgot to mention that my budget is about $400 for an amp...and I want to buy new front speakers and also run them off the amp.
120 Watts x 4 or 300 Watts x 2 or 120 Watts x 2 + 300 Watts x 1
Max. Output EIAJ
RCA and Speaker Level Input
Dimensions: 300 x 60 x 327mm
Is that alright to run 6x9s and some front 4inch speakers off?
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What brand & model of amp is this? If you are looking at this with money left to buy ur 4" ers, i would be fairly certain that they are peak Wattage figures too.
Roughly speaking, RMS (root mean square) is one third of Peak Watts. Manufacturers targeting the uneducated rate their gear with peak ratings all over the box coz the numbers are big and they suck ppl in. Furthermore, the peak rating is usually the wattage that the best speaker in the factory caught fire at, so RMS can be as low as 1/5th of that figure. Whereas a better manufacuter knows that the real figure is RMS when designing and they know their shit is good so they arent scared to put a little number on their box, they will even be conservative with their RMS rating.
The amp you have mentioned will probably be lucky to produce 30wRMS per channel, and it could be really bad sound quality by the time you turn it up so tell me more about it.
I would say that if you buy good 4" speakers, run them off the head unit, then run bridged channels to your 6x9's to get more like 80wRMS each channel. You will get good volume out of your 6x9's then without pushing the amp high at all which is the main thing you want to avoid with a cheapie. Then the internal amp of the head unit should drive the 4" speakers at about the same level as the amp would have anyway. Maybe slightly less but better SQ.
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Registered:
July 2005
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 01:25
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Just to dispell all myths, there is no equasion or factor to work out RMS power from the "peak" power. All components should have the RMS figure somewhere on the box. Most branded speakers will be between 30-100 WRMS, you might expect more for expensive speakers. 30-100 is run of the mill stuff. Quality brands will only advertise RMS figures.
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I am not famillar with this model. From this i am getting the idea that this amp has a impendence switch??? Not a common thing... What happens when you flick it to two ohms and you bridge two channels? BANG, WAFT, then the smell of burning IC's me reckons. But i guess you just dont do that ay...
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There wouldn't be a switch, most amps are happy to run at 2 Ohms in stereo. It's when you bridge the channels that the Impedence goes up.
I would look at an Audison SRx4. You might be able to squeeze one into your budget. It's 4x60WRMS With seveal diffrent configurations. You will find 60WRMS will be more than ample. Audison is also a well regarded quality amp. I have an SRx2 and it hasn't skipped a beat. I use it to run a set of Focal co-ax speakers.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 02:08
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Yeah stupid statment.
Obviously your amp can only deliver an impendence that is determined by the components in the circuit. I feel dumber everyday lately.
By the way Sigmeister when you bridge channels impedence goes down, power goes up. Im sure thats what you meant anyway...
Anyway im thinkin now right, wiring components in parallel means;
Ohms = C1 X C2 / C1 + C2 where C1 & C2 are impedence ratings for any two speakers.
Wiring in series will equal the sum of the individual component impedence;
Ohms = C1 + C2
Meaning basically that if you wire too many speakers in series that you wont hear anything coz circuit resistance is too high, no power left, and if you wire them in parallel, imp is too low amp goes boom.
If you bridge two channels this is a parallel connection and imp is halved, say on a 4ohm amp to 2ohms, and if you drive a standard 4ohm speaker off this you can damage it right, but why? Impedence is by definition resistance, if the circuit load has a 4ohm resistance, what impedence will this circuit operate at? and if it is 4ohms how does damage occur?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 02:14
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interesting point re: advertising of peak and RMS power figures. My Rockford speakers and sub are all in RMS figures only, but the amp lists peak in bigger writing than the RMS.
and in a car anything more than 50RMS is truly overkill, unless you're planning on building a sound-off car
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 02:22
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Well, I actually meant the amp can run at 2 Ohms in stereo. However when you bridge the channels, you can only run at 4 Ohms (well with cheaper amps anyway) so impedence goes up (from 2-4) this has nothing to do with how many speakers you are running, it is because of the loads internally.
But i see what you meant 
yeah, I don't know why they feel the need to advertise 400Watts MAX POWER, when really if people know about car audio, they will know that 50WRMS is actually quite good? Small man syndrome??
Same as when people try and sell things by saying "oh, it's MOSFET".
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 02:30
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the 50wrmx markha sbeen around for ages. even if you start using 1000WRMS to power subwoofers, 50wrms is still enough to drive the smaller drivers (Speakers in doors etc) to keep the soun dlevel up
lol.
when you start hitting for SQ then you really need enermous RMS output to drive horns and multi driver splits.
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Location:
The Hills Area
Registered:
May 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 05:19
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thanks for all the help guys
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 05:40
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I run an older large Clarion amp that is rated at 4 X150wrms. It is a great thing. Has been pumping for years  I run 6X9’s off two channels and the dual 2 ohm sub in series for a 4 ohm load which when bridged brings it back to 2 ohm anyway. Goes great The amp pumps some power alright as I blew a hole in the cone of my old splits that were rated at 120wrms!
I don’t bother with front speakers as they are more difficult to install and I generally don’t keep my daily drivers long enough to warrant the effort. And yes I know about sound staging
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 07:03
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(by: Chris Davey)
dual 2 ohm sub in series for a 4 ohm load which when bridged brings it back to 2 ohm anyway.
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This what i thought. With any car audio amp channel a 4 ohm load = a 4 ohm circuit. Bridge two channels and a 4 ohm load will = a 2 ohm circuit. With the same bridged channels a 2 ohm load will = a 1 ohm circuit, and most amps go boom.
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(by: Sigmeister)
However when you bridge the channels, you can only run at 4 Ohms (well with cheaper amps anyway) so impedence goes up (from 2-4)
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I am a bit confused. I think you are saying the minimum impedence of you driver or speaker goes up from 2-4, but the impedence of the circuit when bridging channels goes DOWN for a fixed load.
There are some amps around which are 1 ohm stable. You bridge 4 channels into 1 and drive a 2ohm sub with dual voice coils wired in series. The load equals 4ohms, but because you have bridged four into one, the circuit runs at 1 ohm. Incredible power. You could just use a single coil 4 ohm sub but i think they dont handle that low an impedence. ???
I have not played with anything at 1 ohm. Anyone who has that cares to share??? I know it used to be more commonplace to see 1 ohm setups in compettition but it went out of style, i think coz it is less efficient/power hungry...
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 07:41
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I used to run my sub off a Lanzar 1200D which is 1 ohm stable.
I ran it in series at 4 ohm for normal. About 300wrms.
And I ran it at 1 ohm for comps. About 1200wrms.
As long as it is rated to be 1 ohm stable it should be ok. I wouldn't recommend driving around for long periods of time with it at 1 ohm though.
BTW the differnce is volume is amazing between the 2 setups.
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Car Audio Question...
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Fri, 04 November 2005 18:06
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DLS D1000 and 2 JL Audio 12W6
they are 4 ohm dual voice coil. ran all 4 coils parallel for 1Ohm and 1000WRMS. (the DLS D1000 is 1000wrms only at 1 ohm)
amps do not dictate what OHM they will run at, the speakers connected to it will. and if you try to run at somethig that hte amp cant handle, boom or click goes the amp.
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