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86tt
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Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 01:04 Go to next message
Have anyone read this yet? Comments?

http://www.roadsense.com.au/members.html
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love ke70
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 04:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
quite an interesting read, very one sided tho.
i would agree with it tho, the dangerous drivers are those that speed excessively or drive excessivly under the limit. the speed cameras catch all people, doin a bit over, which is illegal, however probably not dangerous, we could put those cops back on the road and catch the morons doin very fast or very slow rather than the 'innocent' people only speeding.
so yeah my 2c is that i agree with his opinion
~andrew~
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Big Rob
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i completly agree. Last year when i was doing year 12, in english we were doing studies on sppeding as alot of our essay toipics were related to spped cameras, fines etc. And studies showed that the safest drivers were the ones traveling on or slightly above the spped limit were the safest. While the exceptionally slow or fast were the most dangerous.
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illuminatus
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
main point of article: the governments doing this to raise revenue.

anyone with a mind would have known this right from the start, fromt he very first ads. its all bs propganda.
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oldcorollas
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trust our buddy to find articles like this (it's all a big conspiracy Razz)


the point of reducing speeding is:

which colision are you more likely to walk away from unhurt (considering cars are built to a 55km/hr crash test)

50km/hr


or


100km/hr



if everyone drives slower, the magnitude of collisions and resulting damge is much smaller.. so you and the person you hit are more likely to live and have smaller injuries..

the people who are going to crash are still probably going to crash, but they cause less damage.

sure some people can drive faster safer, but it doesn't help when the moron in his sik pulsar decides he can do the same...


the other thing is.... you could just drive 2 or 3km below the limit all the time.... you don't take that much more time driving.. and you don't get tickets Razz

it's funny being over here in japan and seeing the aussie obsession with driving fast from a different angle.....
over here there is maybe 20-30km tolerance from cop cars, although the cameras may only be 20km over tolerance.... but not many ppl speed.... there aren't many placces you CAN speed anyway Wink except for the yankee boys and the wannabe racers in AE86's Razz

[Updated on: Tue, 08 November 2005 08:31]

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TRD_07
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:23

trust our buddy to find articles like this (it's all a big conspiracy Razz)



it's funny being over here in japan and seeing the aussie obsession with driving fast from a different angle.....
over here there is maybe 20-30km tolerance from cop cars, although the cameras may only be 20km over tolerance.... but not many ppl speed.... there aren't many placces you CAN speed anyway Wink except for the yankee boys and the wannabe racers in AE86's Razz



are there still AE-86s on the road in japan? i thought there was something about cars being more than few years old, that's why it's all getting exported.
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oldcorollas
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
there are at least 4 or 5 in my area... there are a fair few old cars around, but nowhere near as many as Oz...

there is a particular AE85? that i always see and it seriously sounds like a strangled cat farting in a milo tin.... it's low with hard springs and bounces around, but thats relatively normal here... unlike in sydney where they have stock shocks as well.. boing boing boing...


anyway.. it's funny in a country where you hardly get pulled over for speeding.. and not many people drive fast (above limit.. but limit is 30 or 40 so it's not hard)

whereas in Oz, you can go 50.. or 70!!!! and people still speed as a matter of course..... and then bitch and whine when they get caught out by fixed speed cameras that are incredibly well sign posted Razz

ahh it's funny Wink
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illuminatus
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
there are no signs in victoria. i need to be VERY alert to pick them out when driving(driving is speeding for me) in places i havnt been b4.

you guys in other states have it easy, fucking signs saying slow down camera ahead, and some of you still get caught. wtf is with that?
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love ke70
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
well yeah we are dum, however its not like the signs are placed obviosly, or 200 m from the camera, they usually lean it against the back of their car, by that time u got no chance of slowin down, and sometimes u just dont see it
catchyas
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Tue, 08 November 2005 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Tue, 08 November 2005 12:04

Comments?

Yes.

Why the fuck haven't you been banned yet?
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oldcorollas
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
illuminatus wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 09:30

there are no signs in victoria. i need to be VERY alert to pick them out when driving(driving is speeding for me) in places i havnt been b4.

you guys in other states have it easy, fucking signs saying slow down camera ahead, and some of you still get caught. wtf is with that?


well.... sorry.... but you deserve to get busted...


stop speeding and you never even have to look for them Razz
how attentive to the road can you be when you have to always be looking for a speed camera Wink sucker
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SmellyTofu
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 00:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Whenever I go to Victoria (which is rarely thankfully) or past a speed camera, I find it hard not to just stare at the speedo to make sure I am not speeding though most of the time, I do not go over the so called "speed limit". Thus I am not attentive to the road because I don't know where they are in Victoria so therefore more dangerous on the roads by being innattentive than "speeding".

If you were serious in slowing people down, why not put in a speed hump and be with that?
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ke382TG
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 02:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

......I find it hard not to just stare at the speedo to make sure I am not speeding though most of the time,....


I must have ESSP (the extra S is for speed) as I only need to glance at the speedometer occassionally, usually when changing speeds and after that I can tell/feel if I am going faster slower. It's not that hard Very Happy

A lot of people are retarded though I have noticed Wink

*Touch wood* I have never had a speeding fine and my car can do 0-100 in a shade over 4 seconds so it's not like it's hard for me to accidentally speed Smile

People should just learn to deal with their retarded skills and pay the fines Wink
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Corona RT142
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 02:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If you drive a car long enough you should be able to judge speeds by engine/exhaust note approxiamately, unless its a cmary in which the sound deadening is that great you can't hear shit.
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ke382TG
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 02:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

unless its a cmary in which the sound deadening is that great you can't hear shit.


I drive around in a variety of new cars and never do I find myself looking at the speedo and thinking "holy fark i'm doing 135km/h in an 80km/h zone, how did that happen???????"

Yes new cars do have less audible warnings to alert a "numb" driver to changes in speed but I still don't thinks it's difficult to gauge your speed.

I think the government is just taking advantage of peoples high levels of retardation behind the wheel and are cashing in. Those who are not retarded have nothing to worry about Wink
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the point is the over zealous speed enforcement of the government in making the driving trip much more stressful and dangerous, all the people that uses the road have different skill level and we all know, just because you're a good/ok driver, doesn't mean everyone is, you may think it's funny to call other people retard, but one day, this "retard" is going to rear end your car and give you a stiff neck or even kill someone that you know and love, just because he was too busy looking at his speedo, and not at the traffic around him, and in the end, you are going to be the one to pay! Shocked Although this is the general ignorant attitude the world has become, that if it doesn't affect you directly, you won't give a shit, but that's not the way the world revolves around, every little things around you will affect you! Very Happy

[Updated on: Wed, 09 November 2005 03:25]

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ke382TG
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

the point is the over zealous speed enforcement of the government in making the driving trip much more stressful and dangerous, all the people that uses the road have different skill level and we all know, just because you're a good/ok driver, doesn't mean everyone is, you may think it's funny to call other people retard, but one day, this "retard" is going to rear end your car and give you a stiff neck or even kill someone that you know and love, just because he was too busy looking at his speedo, and not at the traffic around him, and in the end, you are going to be the one to pay! Although this is the general ignorant attitude the world has become, that if it doesn't affect you directly, you won't give a shit, but that's not the way the world revolves around, every little things around you will affect you!


Most rules/laws etc are enforced by the government to protect morons from themselves and to attempt to protect other people from morons. You always have to account for the lowest common denominator i.e. most people could safely drive a little over the posted limit without a problem but the few that can't are the ones that you have to worry about Wink

I would be very scared if everyone who thought they were a good driver got out there and drove at what speed they felt safe at Confused

NB. In no way am I claiming to be a good driver, but I just try to remain attentive and keep an eye on what everyone around me is up to whilst adhering to the rules.

An interesting point to note is the number of fatalies here in the ACT has more than doubled in 2005 (compared to 2004), I think we are up to 27 deaths, 7 of which are motorcyclists (1 of which was speeding), 5 were taken out by cars at intersections that failed to give way and one was taken out by some fag doing a burnout. Of the cars 4 of them were old people (over ~70) who died in single vehicle accidents. The rest were mostly single vehicle accidents with quite a few involving speeding P-platers usually killing the passengers.

The ACT Governments response is to up the number of camera locations from 65 to 640 in 2006. This may slow a few dipshits down who just got their licence and are taking their mates for a fang, but it won't help the others who get taken out at intersections or by old people who have passed their period of safe driving. EDIT: the other initiative the ACT Government is looking to introduce is licence testing at each licence renewal, I say bring it on, so many fuckers out there are going to fail Evil or Very Mad

Don't get me wrong, speed cameras are a revenue raiser more so than a safety tool. But all everyone ever does is fkn whinge about them and rarely does anyone ever address the other issues or offer alternatives to curb the road toll.

[Updated on: Wed, 09 November 2005 04:46]

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stealth007008
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A recent Road Transport Authority (RTA) campaign based on a NSW Government sponsored study through Monash University examines two cars, one travelling at 60km/h and another at 65km/h. It shows that the car travelling at 60km/h hits at 5km/h and the other hits at 32km/h.

does that mean a car travelling at 58.67km/h wouldnt hit the object at all or a car doing 68km/h would hit it at 70km/hr

rather then drop 5 u are better off upgrading to a set of 4 pot brembos, then u can do your 80km/h and stil not crash Smile
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 05:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stealth007008 wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 15:59

A recent Road Transport Authority (RTA) campaign based on a NSW Government sponsored study through Monash University examines two cars, one travelling at 60km/h and another at 65km/h. It shows that the car travelling at 60km/h hits at 5km/h and the other hits at 32km/h.

does that mean a car travelling at 58.67km/h wouldnt hit the object at all or a car doing 68km/h would hit it at 70km/hr

rather then drop 5 u are better off upgrading to a set of 4 pot brembos, then u can do your 80km/h and stil not crash Smile


Why not just learn how to use the brain that is embeded in you? then you can learn to use the steering wheel. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

Why not just learn how to use the brain that is embeded in you? then you can learn to use the steering wheel.


Most people in a panic situation behind the wheel just stomp the brakes and hope for the best. Evasive manouvres are not part of their skill set unfortunately. These are the people who those ads are aimed at.

Also the opportunity to avoid a collision in some circumstances is nil.
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 05:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stealth007008 wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 15:59

A recent Road Transport Authority (RTA) campaign based on a NSW Government sponsored study through Monash University examines two cars, one travelling at 60km/h and another at 65km/h. It shows that the car travelling at 60km/h hits at 5km/h and the other hits at 32km/h.

does that mean a car travelling at 58.67km/h wouldnt hit the object at all or a car doing 68km/h would hit it at 70km/hr

rather then drop 5 u are better off upgrading to a set of 4 pot brembos, then u can do your 80km/h and stil not crash Smile


unless the road is slippery/non-ideal.. sayy, a loose scattering of gravel.. some oil from passing cars... then regardless off your tyre and brake package, you are still fucked.

how hard is it to just drive a little UNDER the speed limit.. it takes far less attention than all those retards who try to stay a given amount ABOVE the limit..... heck, just drive at the limit and you are fine Rolling Eyes

and as for cameras... doesn't everyone slow down for a fixed camera? you would have to be a retard not to be going under the speed limit as you approach/pass a permanent camera....

i would personally vote someone into government if they simply pledged to fit RED LIGHT CAMERAS to EVERY TRAFFIC LIGHT. Very Happy

Quote:

Also the opportunity to avoid a collision in some circumstances is nil.


zactly.. if you get T-boned by a retard in a soccermum tank because the "thought the light was green/orange/purple/whatever" you are still fucked....


JUST DRIVE SLOWER Very Happy

see... if everyone did not speed excessively... then the cameras would not be called revenue raising..

see the simple connection everyone?

no speeding......no fine......no revenue raising Cool
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 14:24

the point is the over zealous speed enforcement of the government in making the driving trip much more stressful and dangerous, all the people that uses the road have different skill level and we all know, just because you're a good/ok driver, doesn't mean everyone is, you may think it's funny to call other people retard, but one day, this "retard" is going to rear end your car and give you a stiff neck or even kill someone that you know and love, just because he was too busy looking at his speedo, and not at the traffic around him, and in the end, you are going to be the one to pay! Shocked Although this is the general ignorant attitude the world has become, that if it doesn't affect you directly, you won't give a shit, but that's not the way the world revolves around, every little things around you will affect you! Very Happy


no shit sherlock, points for stating the bleeding obvious Rolling Eyes


i was going to say it had been xx months since your last useful post in tech..... but i couldn't find one this year Sad
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AW11 no Jitsu
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ke382TG wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 16:45


Most people in a panic situation behind the wheel just stomp the brakes and hope for the best. Evasive manouvres are not part of their skill set unfortunately. These are the people who those ads are aimed at.

Also the opportunity to avoid a collision in some circumstances is nil.


But that's how brake normally, and they barely avoid hitting into you then. How many rear enders would happen daily if it weren't for ABS.
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 16:51

JUST DRIVE SLOWER Very Happy



No shit Harold Scruby. Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious.
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86tt
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

Don't get me wrong, speed cameras are a revenue raiser more so than a safety tool. But all everyone ever does is fkn whinge about them and rarely does anyone ever address the other issues or offer alternatives to curb the road toll.

There are plenty of alternatives, but because 30% of voters don't drive, 40% of the voters don't care because they think it won't affect them, 20% of the people really believe "Speed Kills" then you're left with 10% of the people that really knows where the problem is and how to improve the situation, but couldn't do a thing!!!

Quote:

Evasive manouvres are not part of their skill set unfortunately.

Surprises happens everyday, and I think people that are not able to react calmly and get out of a dangerous situation while driving a vehicle, shouldn't get a license in the first place, that's a problem with our education part of things.

Quote:

unless the road is slippery/non-ideal.. sayy, a loose scattering of gravel.. some oil from passing cars... then regardless off your tyre and brake package, you are still fucked.

This can be improved by improving the overall "skill" level of the drivers, if people are paying attention to the "traffic flow", when one good driver spots the hazard and slows down, the rest should slow down and maintain the "safety gap/margin"


Quote:

how hard is it to just drive a little UNDER the speed limit.. it takes far less attention than all those retards who try to stay a given amount ABOVE the limit..... heck, just drive at the limit and you are fine

This shows how ignorant you are to the problem, so you think this "speed limit" is a magic number? The speed limit have nothing to do with accident and injury rates, you can have the speed limit at 60, and if we're all perfect humans, we'll all drive at 55, you'd think we're safe, but the "risk takers" are going to bolt out in front of you thinking they've "timed" it right, and there's enough margin to clear it, BANG, someone gets killed, alright now, you reduce the speed limit to 50km/h, you think you're safe, then again, this "risk taker" is still going to bolt out right in front of you, although you're driving at 50km/h, again, thinking they've "timed" it right, and again, BANG! Someone gets killed, get the picture? So how slow is safe? You think 60km/h is safe, but 50km/h is safer, and so is 40km/h compared to 50km/h and so on, so what speed is safe? 0km/h?

The fact is, someone is still going to rear end another car "thinking" it was green light, t-bones are still going to happen because they thought they've timed it right, head-on collision is still going to happen because they thought they had enough time to overtake although they didn't see the other car in the opposite direction? Beginners is still going to wrap around the pole thinking they've rounded the corner at the right and safe speed.

So what is wrong? Did someone get killed because he was driving 20km/h over the "magic number" limit? Or did someone get killed because some incompetent driver drove right in the path of another moving vehicle? Do you think you will save lives by reducing the speed limit? How about saving lives by requesting higher skill levels for drivers before they get their license instead?

There are alternatives, but in this world, it's too hard to change anything, mostly because of the existence of people like oldcorollas, he'll probably come back and post something like this...
Quote:

"which colision are you more likely to walk away from unhurt (considering cars are built to a 55km/hr crash test)

50km/hr


or


100km/hr



think about this, even if your car were built to a 55km/h crash test, if a 55km/h crash happened, you're probably brain dead as the inertia of your brain gets crushed inside your skull, your body may still be unhurt, you'll die in one piece! Fancy that? The key is to reduce the chance of collsion, this can only be done by education/training, and traffic flow management, and higher speed limit may even get you off the road earlier, as the longer you stay on the road, the more chance for you to get killed! And this is a fact!
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oldcorollas
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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
86tt wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 19:49

There are plenty of alternatives, but because 30% of voters don't drive, 40% of the voters don't care because they think it won't affect them, 20% of the people really believe "Speed Kills" then you're left with 10% of the people that really knows where the problem is and how to improve the situation, but couldn't do a thing!!!


and 95% of statistics are made up on the spot Laughing

86tt wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 19:49


think about this, even if your car were built to a 55km/h crash test, if a 55km/h crash happened, you're probably brain dead as the inertia of your brain gets crushed inside your skull, your body may still be unhurt, you'll die in one piece!


crash test measurement is of deceleration rates of different parts of the body, including head. the rates of deceleration allowable were chosen to reduce the likelihood of injury to a certain amount... have you ever even looked at the actual ADR's ?

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Re: Highway Robbery - Bruce Josephs Aug 2005 Wed, 09 November 2005 12:04 Go to previous message
oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 20:21

86tt wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 19:49

There are plenty of alternatives, but because 30% of voters don't drive, 40% of the voters don't care because they think it won't affect them, 20% of the people really believe "Speed Kills" then you're left with 10% of the people that really knows where the problem is and how to improve the situation, but couldn't do a thing!!!


and 95% of statistics are made up on the spot Laughing



yes, that was just a very rough example to reflect what's currently happening, and you're the type of people that's in the 20% Wink

if we have cars that are built to crash safely at 55km/h, then we'll have to set the speed limit at 25km/h, so in the worst case even if we have a head on collision, either by poor road conditions or poor driver judgement, we can still come out with a 0 road toll? But wait, why is people still dying due to "speed" being the main fatal factor? Duh, maybe it's because the government even counts suicides as part of the "Speed Kills" statistics!
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