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Location: Sweden
Registered: May 2004
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: February 2003
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Re: 21r-c top on a 22r-e engine?
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Fri, 11 November 2005 23:03
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any differences would probably be the shape of the inlet ports - see if they share the same inlet manifold gasket.
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Location: VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered: July 2003
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Re: 21r-c top on a 22r-e engine?
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Sat, 12 November 2005 01:11
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larger cc dome in the 21R head + flat top or dished pistons in the 22re block = very very low compression.
Have a look on http://www.celica-gts.com in their forums for more details.
Basically our 21R is the same as their early 22R, larger combustion chamber w/domed pistons...round exhaust ports.
Our 22RE is the same as their late 22R, having flat top pistons and smaller combustion chamber (squish area). Easily identfiable by the 'pear' shaped exhaust ports.
So if you must use that combination. I'd be finding some early 22R domed pistons to swap in it.
Cheers,
James
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Location: Hobart, Tas
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 21r-c top on a 22r-e engine?
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Sat, 12 November 2005 06:18
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What Viper said.
What the yanks do is put the better flowing 20R head on an early 22R bottom end to make a 20/22R hybrid. The 20R has smaller valves etc though, and won't bolt up to an EFI manifold without some welding/tapping...
Apart from the fact that, as Viper says, we never got the early 22R (you CAN put a 20R head on a late 22R block if you mill the head down a fair bit), I'm faily sure out 21R head does NOT = a 20R.
(Not sure I agree with the 22R having roudn exchaust ports... I thought it was only the 20R that had round ports, and these are normally ported to suit an EFI manifold)
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Location: VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered: July 2003
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Re: 21r-c top on a 22r-e engine?
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Sat, 12 November 2005 07:15
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Stefan, you are thinking of the round intake ports on the 20R... the 21R/22R got square intake ports.
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Location: Hobart, Tas
Registered: May 2002
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Location: Sweden
Registered: May 2004
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Mon, 14 November 2005 09:49
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So, it wont work?
Dont think i can get i 20r head :/
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Mon, 14 November 2005 11:55
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The bigger question here is WHY?
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Location: VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered: July 2003
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Mon, 14 November 2005 12:08
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The same reason bogans love commodores.
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Location: Sweden
Registered: May 2004
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Mon, 14 November 2005 23:19
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Yeah, the why-question is good
hmm ok, i've got a 21rc, and the crankshaft bearrings broke and trashed the crank. I think its easier to get a 22r here, but its too much work with the efi, so if i can use my 21r head i spare MANY hours of work.
thats pretty much why.
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Location: VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered: July 2003
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Tue, 15 November 2005 02:43
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you could use the 22RE head and just swap the 21R carby manifold on...
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I supported Toymods
Location: Perth
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Tue, 15 November 2005 02:47
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Just put a complete 22RE in it. Why are people so afraid of EFI? In the case of the RA65 -> RA60 engine swap, it's about as simple as they come.
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Location: Sweden
Registered: May 2004
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Tue, 15 November 2005 13:32
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Is'nt that wery much work to put the efi together? I have no experience of efí before :/
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Tue, 15 November 2005 14:06
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Consider this an opportunity to learn then.
Seriously, the EFI system on a 22R-E is incredibly simple. You'd have to try pretty hard to stuff it up.
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Location: VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered: July 2003
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Tue, 15 November 2005 14:53
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the more complete a loom the better, but as Norbie said, there isn't a lot to it.... provided you understand the basics of electricity (positive/negative/etc).
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Location: Townsville North Qld
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Wed, 16 November 2005 00:35
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Im in the middle of the swap myself. Easiest way is to find a $500 Corona (RT142 or similar) with the 22RE, cause then you get the fuel pump, all relays, a complete efi loom etc. all in one hit. Only thing you may look into doing is relocate either the battery or the AFM. Not sure which one I will do yet, probably relocate the AFM tho.
Another option, I know that some of the older hiluxes or landcruisers had 22R motors in them... carby items. These might be worth looking at, and can probably be found through somebody doing an EFI conversion on their LUX/Cruiser.
Cheers, Owen
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I supported Toymods
Location: Perth
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Wed, 16 November 2005 00:47
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The easiest option would be an RA65 Celica, everything should pretty much bolt in. That said, it would probably be just as easy to just buy an RA65
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Location: Townsville North Qld
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Wed, 16 November 2005 06:00
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Frank,
The RA65 has the battery and main relay box on the passenger side, same as RT142 corona so that the afm and air box are both on the same side as the intake. So, being that there is (engine/loom speaking) no difference between the RA65 celica and RT142 corona, the corona is usually the better option because:
a) most people wont care if a corona is sacrificed
b) coronas are usually cheaper.
Just my logic, and what i have found by comparing RA65's and RT142's.
Cheers, Owen
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I supported Toymods
Location: Perth
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Wed, 16 November 2005 06:03
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Fair enough, was more talking about the tank and lines etc. too though.
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Location: Sweden
Registered: May 2004
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Wed, 16 November 2005 18:19
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It was the thing with the tank and lines i tought about.
Isn't that tough?
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I supported Toymods
Location: Perth
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Wed, 16 November 2005 22:50
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Not with a complete donor car to run everything.
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Location: Sweden
Registered: May 2004
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Re: 21r-c head on a 22r-e engine?
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Fri, 18 November 2005 22:41
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Yeah, but the problem is that the celica didn't come to sweden with efi...
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