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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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3SGTE timing issue - now actuator issues
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Mon, 21 November 2005 02:28
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Hi peeps,
Got an issue with the timing of my 3SGTE 
When freshening up my engine, I reinstalled every seal and belt I could get my hands on, this included the timing belt. I think I may have done something wrong though as even when the dizzy is adjusted to its full extent, I can only get to about 20 degrees off (it needs to be 10).
I've taken the timing cover off and when the crank is at TDC, the cams also seem to be at TDC. They're a teeny tiny bit to the right, but if I moved the belt forward one tooth, it'd be much further off the mark.
The only things I think could be wrong, but most get negated fairly quickly are.
1) because the crank does two rotations to every one of the cams, maybe I've lined the crank up at BDC. - You wouldn't think it would run at all though.
2) The tensioner's either not pushing the belt out enough or pushing it too far. IE making the belt path longer or shorter between the crank and cams.
3) There's something wrong with the Dizzy. Could I be off a tooth there, or is there only one way it goes on like the cam gears and crank pulley?
The car idles and runs fine. I can't boost though, as soon as I do, the engine is cut briefly and the check engine light comes on for a few seconds. Is that what happens when the engine 'knocks'?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Cheers,
Dave
[Updated on: Sun, 27 November 2005 22:56]
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Mon, 21 November 2005 02:47
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Have you got T1 and E1 on the ECU check connector shorted?
Other than that its hard to stuff up the 3SGTE as there is only two ways for the dizzy to slot in.
To do the timing belt just point the mark on the crank pully at zero on the timing cover and point the marks on the two cam gears straight up... now pull the belt over the cam gears and release the tensioner.
Then either chuck in the dizzy and have a 50% chance of being right (and reverse if wrong) or take off the cover and line the single tooth up to the sensor and bolt in.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Mon, 21 November 2005 03:27
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| Toymods page render |
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Nice one! 
| Toobs wrote on Mon, 21 November 2005 13:47 |
Have you got T1 and E1 on the ECU check connector shorted?
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Yep. Although with my shonky wiring, they might not be hooked up to the ECU. They should be though, as all wires going to the two ECU plugs on the engine loom have remained pretty much untouched.
| Toobs wrote on Mon, 21 November 2005 13:47 |
Other than that its hard to stuff up the 3SGTE as there is only two ways for the dizzy to slot in.
To do the timing belt just point the mark on the crank pully at zero on the timing cover and point the marks on the two cam gears straight up... now pull the belt over the cam gears and release the tensioner.
Then either chuck in the dizzy and have a 50% chance of being right (and reverse if wrong) or take off the cover and line the single tooth up to the sensor and bolt in.
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My memory is a bit hazy, as it was almost 12 months ago when I had the engine apart. I replaced the cam shaft seals at the front, if there's one at the back to the dizzy, then I would have definately had the dizzy out. I would love it to be as easy as just unbolting the dizzy, spinning the shaft, and bolting it back up.
I'm not quite following you regarding, lining the single tooth up to the sensor, is that when the cam gears and crank are at TDC?
Is it in the manual on how to line the dizzy back up?
Thanks heaps!
Dave
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Mon, 21 November 2005 04:28
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When TE1 and E1 are shorted the engine check light will flash, this should tell you if your wiring is ok.
To align the dizzy you can also chuck a multimeter across the cylinder 1 and coil lead sockets and rotate until there is continuity.
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Mon, 21 November 2005 04:39
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which model 3sgte do you have is it a st185 or is it a st205 as the later had a different belt is in number of teeth so make sure you have the right belt for the right model ,from memory gen 2 st185 had 178teeth and st205 had 174teeth
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Mon, 21 November 2005 05:55
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| Toobs wrote on Mon, 21 November 2005 15:28 |
When TE1 and E1 are shorted the engine check light will flash, this should tell you if your wiring is ok.
To align the dizzy you can also chuck a multimeter across the cylinder 1 and coil lead sockets and rotate until there is continuity.
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I can't recall seeing the check engine light flash, so maybe I jumpered it wrong or it's not connected right, I'll check tonight.
So when cylinder 1 is at TDC, I should get continuity between the coil socket and cylinder 1 socket on the dizzy?
CelicaRA45: I have a gen2 (ST185) motor and I ordered the parts through Toyota. I'll see if I can dig up the bag it came in and cross check it against my EPC. I know I would have ordered it right, but they c0cked up that many things that I ordered, that it wouldn't at all surprise me if the timing belt is one off a starlet.
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Mon, 21 November 2005 07:18
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allright try this set crank to TDC with rocker cover off inlet and ex should be facing in on no 4 cyl, also in the cam shaft backing plate will have marks on them to set the cams at tdc ,also there should be a belt holder on the crank that bolts to the oil pump to stop belt from slipping
i start with the exhaust at tdc with crank as well ,take up the belt slack btw crank and exhaust cam ,once this is right and tight then move to the inlet and align that up then set the tensioner,that way it should be right then the disy has a mark to set it right as well, a little mark will bne on the disy for the tdc posi ,and count the teeth as well
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Mon, 21 November 2005 22:50
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My apologies, I'm just going to regurgitate an email I just sent, it's too long to type again.
In short, timing sorted, still have a problem with cut, haven't checked fault codes yet, so really just an update, not seeking advice.
Cheers,
Dave
| Quote: |
Well I had another crack at the title last night (I think my body is going to give up on me soon) and at about 1am I fired her up again. (I'm calling it a 'her' now for the way it's been dicking everyone around for so long)
Firstly I lined it up to TDC, pulled #1 sparky to check and put a screw driver in. Clunk, only stuck it in about a centimetre before it hit piston, used a torch and yep, there's the piston.
I pulled the dizzy to make sure it was in the right way. Nope, upside down. So I turn it around and put it back in. Little did I realise that there was only one way it would go in, even though it looked perfectly happy to go in two ways. So putting it back in, it wouldn't go all the way back in by itself. The manual says to lightly tighten, so I take that as how it pulls it the rest of the way in. Tighten, tighten, tighten - SNAP. Whoops, pull it back out again. Check the dizzy, definitely not happy Jan, doesn't even turn anymore without force. Luckily I have a spare (doesn't everybody?), just hope it works through all this dust and shit it's collected. I assess the situation and come to figure that the teeth weren't lined up at all. So to line this one up, I pull the cap off and spin the rotor with my fingers to find its happy place. Yep, right back where I started, so it only goes in one way….doh. That must mean the cams are only half way through there cycle.
With not much more to loose, I decided to leave the crank where it is and move the cams around to TDC again. I tell you what, with the amount of room I had to work with, changing the timing belt and setting the tensioner etc was not an easy task. I think the car learnt a whole bunch of new words last night. Anyways, I left all the cover etc off and just connected the alternator belt, afm, etc again and decided to fire it up. Doesn't run well at all, shit. Whoops, left the brake booster line off, I'm a dick. Connected again and she starts and runs fine. Nice one!
Next I properly jumper the TE1 and E1 terminals and check with continuity that they are. Now when I start it I get my check engine light telling me whats on and I can set the timing right with the ecu trying to advance/retard itself.
Timing comes up pretty well, although I couldn't tell whether it is meant to be 10deg btdc when at idle, or 10deg btdc when at 1100 rpm. So I set it between the two
Not sure whether the timing belt was off one tooth before and doing it the second time just happened to fix it, or
Changing to the other stroke of the piston helped anything (really don't think it could), or
Finally jumpering the ecu meant I could read it properly, or
It's just a pig and decided to work now.
Anyways, took it out for a wrap. Before you get too excited, it's still got the same problem where it's killing the engine on boost. And I was too knackered by that time to start checking fault codes.
But.... before it did start playing up, I got a few good hits out of it. One run through to decent boost in third, where I had gotten to a ridiculous speed in a ridiculously short amount of time, it's like nothing I've been in before. Albeit, I haven't been in many quick cars, actually, thinking about it now, it was very comparable to the frog.
Anyways, going to cancel the test again today, just not going to make it. Even if I did get the issue sorted tonight, I still need to make up a heat shield before I can put the lid on.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Tue, 22 November 2005 07:28
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I would put my money on the TE1 & E1 connectors arent wired up correctly. When it comes to the dizzy in my Gen2 3SGTE there is only 1 way to align the distributor to the cam as the tab and slot are off centre.....
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue
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Tue, 22 November 2005 23:28
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| SilverGhost wrote on Tue, 22 November 2005 18:28 |
I would put my money on the TE1 & E1 connectors arent wired up correctly. When it comes to the dizzy in my Gen2 3SGTE there is only 1 way to align the distributor to the cam as the tab and slot are off centre.....
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Yep, as I found out
| Quote: |
I pulled the dizzy to make sure it was in the right way. Nope, upside down. So I turn it around and put it back in. Little did I realise that there was only one way it would go in, even though it looked perfectly happy to go in two ways. So putting it back in, it wouldn't go all the way back in by itself. The manual says to lightly tighten, so I take that as how it pulls it the rest of the way in. Tighten, tighten, tighten - SNAP. Whoops, pull it back out again. Check the dizzy, definitely not happy Jan, doesn't even turn anymore without force. Luckily I have a spare (doesn't everybody?), just hope it works through all this dust and shit it's collected. I assess the situation and come to figure that the teeth weren't lined up at all. So to line this one up, I pull the cap off and spin the rotor with my fingers to find its happy place. Yep, right back where I started, so it only goes in one way....doh. That must mean the cams are only half way through there cycle.
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Even when they aren't jumpered, the timing now is still a lot better than it was. The timing belt must have been off a tooth before, and when I've taken it off and rotated the crank one turn and put it back on, I must have got it right.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue - now actuator issues
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Sun, 27 November 2005 22:56
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Also posted at http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?p=1493502#post 1493502
Out there again yesterday and I've (with the help of feral4mr2 and GUN METAL 87 SC) determined that it's boost cut causing the issues. This was verified by a '34' fault code and the fact that it was hitting 15PSI on the boost gauge.
So what would cause my car to get to 15PSI? I would think the only reason to be the actuator not opening up the wastegate.
So why would the actuator not be working?
1) It's not connected up right
Even though my compressor housing is clocked 180 degrees, it's still connected up to the same pipe.
2) The dump pipe is stopping the wastegate from opening
Shouldn't be, I checked clearance before fitting the aftermarket 3" pipe. And it hits 15PSI super quick, if at least some air was escaping, time from 0-15PSI should be more than the fraction of a second that it is.
3) The actuator is stopping the wastgeate from opening far enough
Could be, but I woudn't think so. When I made the new bracket up for the actuator, I positioned the actuator by pulling it away far enough that the wastegate was firmly held shut, but not far enough away that the actuator rod was pulling out of the actuator. And as above if this was the problem, it should boost quick to 7PSI then creep the rest.
4) There is some sort of leak in the line between the compressor and the actuator.
Possibly, although not likely, it's a brand new hose. I might before I replace the actuator though, plumb a boost gauge in to it and see what pressure the actuator is being fed.
5) The actuator is stuffed
This is what I've got my money on. Even though I was VERY careful when welding the actuator bracket to the actuator not to get it too hot, maybe I stuffed it. Or maybe it was stuffed when I bought it.
Is there anything I have missed, neglected?
If I went with one of these what would I plumb the turbo VSV to? What's that thing for anyways?
Cheers,
dave
[Updated on: Sun, 27 November 2005 22:59]
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3SGTE timing issue - now actuator issues
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Mon, 28 November 2005 19:01
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Anyone got any ideas?
Or a cheaper place to get an actuator?
If the price GCG are asking for the actuator bracket is anything to go on ($55), then I assume all of their other stuff is inflated also.
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