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T25G
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4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 27 November 2005 00:59 Go to next message
Hey guys,

Im just wondering what the limitations are on the stock management on a 4age rolla setup? What im getting at is in n/a form, what size cams and cam timing can you run and how much compression can you have etc, before having to go to aftermarket setup?

I know on Nissans the ecu compenstates very well, to my surprise.

I did have a AE82 86kw 4age that had the head shaved to limit and prob i had was it started to ping just before tvis valves opened up, so i had the tvis made electronically adjustable so it opened at around 3000rpm which solved the problem, and the engine had 185000 kays on it at the time so that was in the equation also.

I would like to see some replies with what setups people have with the stock management keeping up.

Cheers.

[Updated on: Sun, 27 November 2005 01:38]

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ae86drift
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 27 November 2005 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
limit of the cams is 264, 272's will work but very badly.
as for compression im not sure
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T25G
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Wed, 30 November 2005 05:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thanks, anyone else ?
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wraith
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Thu, 01 December 2005 06:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ditto on this. I'd like to run around 11:1 on a stocker bigport ecu Rolling Eyes and probably 256s. Might need some bigger injectors?

cheers
Ash
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devolutio
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Fri, 02 December 2005 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ae86drift wrote on Sun, 27 November 2005 12:16

limit of the cams is 264, 272's will work but very badly.
as for compression im not sure


by 'very badly', what exactly do you mean? Is it only low rpm and idle that suffer with stock ecu? Obviously you need aftermarket management to get the most out of it, but are there useable high rpm gains. Anyone with first hand experience running larger cams (around 270) with stock ecu?

thanks

[Updated on: Fri, 02 December 2005 03:52]

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Skaney
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Fri, 02 December 2005 07:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Very badly meaning your car would be faster in most applications with the standard cams..

I have the following setup on the standard computer: 100kw block, overbore, shaved and ported bigport head, HKS 256 8.1mm (I think) cams.
The powerband this makes is very good, but the idle is farked. For this reason I would not recommmend any bigger cams unless you use an aftermarket ECU.
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devolutio
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Fri, 02 December 2005 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cool thanks for the advice... anyone else got any opinions that conflict/back up what skaney has said?
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sat, 03 December 2005 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I have the 272's with standard ECU as per previous threads. idle is fine, runs fine, but power band is too high for the street and fuelling a problem. You wouldn't put big cams on a carbied car without changing the carb(s).
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devolutio
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 04 December 2005 00:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
where abouts is the power band? bigport or smallport engine? Who made the cams?

sorry to hijack thread.
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 04 December 2005 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Above 4000, bigport, wade.
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T25G
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 04 December 2005 04:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
how much lift??
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 04 December 2005 04:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No Message Body
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 04 December 2005 04:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry, off the top of my head it is 8mm, whatever the standard wade lift for that duration is. Shall have a look when I get home.
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 04 December 2005 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Had a look at the wade spec sheet. I have the 872A's which were the lowest duration they had way back when. They are 267.5 degree duration @ ramp (not 272). Lift at valve is 0.317 thou or approx 7.925 mm (I think we can call that 8mm).
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 04 December 2005 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
In addition, that is with standard shim under buckets and valve springs.
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b1gb3n
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Mon, 05 December 2005 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
parrot i had the same cams in my 16v too. ran like a bitch. then i got adj. cam gears and it smoothen it out. had an SAFC on hte car as well. SAFC didnt really need to be tuned much anyway apart frm idle. stock ecu made the car idle rich on those cams. it was -24% on the SAFC at idle and i think it was still running a little on the rich side Embarassed
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devolutio
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Mon, 05 December 2005 05:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anything else non standard about your engine with the safc and cams? Who tuned the safc? And if 'you' what were you measuring a/f with?

Cheers
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b1gb3n
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Mon, 05 December 2005 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tecnik tuning in fully sik preston. had cams, adj. cam gears and safc on it. i was trying to sell that set of mods a month ago but nobody wanted the whole thing Sad

now im stuck with an SAFC. anybody want to buy an safc? Crying or Very Sad


a/f ratio was measured with a stick up the exhaust on the car at dyno place. thats all i know.


try looking up bill sherwood's site. lots of info there. i have a friend running 272 degree on stock ecu and it was fine. i guess some 4age's came with better ecu than others.
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Mon, 05 December 2005 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Good point. Have always had adj cam gears on it so no problem there. Also have a UK loom with an idle mixture adjustment doover as standard (CO2 adj switch) so that helps too. Currently on the look out for an f con piggyback.
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ae86drift
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Tue, 06 December 2005 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
its possible the JDM ecu handles the cams better than the AUDM ecu because of the preset maps.

could explain some working better than others

then again, the base timing and also possibility of cam tming could have something to do with the idle smoothness
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b1gb3n
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Tue, 06 December 2005 03:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
^^^^^^oh ya forgot to mention that my idle was a bitch and became smooth when cam gears went in. Very Happy
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Tue, 06 December 2005 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ae86drift wrote on Tue, 06 December 2005 14:43

its possible the JDM ecu handles the cams better than the AUDM ecu because of the preset maps.

could explain some working better than others

then again, the base timing and also possibility of cam tming could have something to do with the idle smoothness

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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Tue, 06 December 2005 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry, not having much luck with the forums today.

I've got a JDM ECU in mine for what it's worth. The CO2 adjustment really helps with idle. Should be easy enough to wire one in to the VAF input of the ECU if you can locate one. I can give you the detailed wiring diagram for it if anyone interested.
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xero
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Tue, 06 December 2005 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i found out this today...

all ae92, fuel injected 4a's use the exact same computer...
be it SX, GTi or granny spec CSi
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ae86drift
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Tue, 06 December 2005 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ill have a JDM ae86 ecu and a SAFC2 for sale in january for anyone whos interested Wink
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parrot
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Tue, 06 December 2005 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Can I ask how you have found the SAFC? I have some slightly larger (225cc) injectors and am keen to try a piggyback fuel computer. Don't want to go full management. As above, have been on the look out for a HKS F-con. Car has been off the road for a few years and have been accumulating parts for a refurbishment.
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b1gb3n
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Wed, 07 December 2005 04:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
safc serves its purpose fine. buy mine Very Happy
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illuminatus
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Wed, 07 December 2005 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xero wrote on Wed, 07 December 2005 00:15

i found out this today...

all ae92, fuel injected 4a's use the exact same computer...
be it SX, GTi or granny spec CSi

even the 20v and gze?
i doubt that highly!
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b1gb3n
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Wed, 07 December 2005 05:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
20v is ae101 Razz

he's probably referring to all australian models. cant see the 88kw jap ae92 4age having the same ecu as smallports
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xero
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Wed, 07 December 2005 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
actually as far as we learned (me and toyota parts dude) the injected 4a's all have the same small port head albeit, different injectors and timing...
again i cant guarantee this info is completely correct, as most of the stuff is now fifteen years old and they don't carry alot of it, if any, any more...
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trevtrev
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Wed, 07 December 2005 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It sounds like you are trying to say that a 4AGE and a 4AFE have the same smallport head. Rolling Eyes

No matter how small your penis is, the Stock ECU will NOT compensate.
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b1gb3n
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Thu, 08 December 2005 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trevtrev wrote on Thu, 08 December 2005 10:42



No matter how small your penis is, the Stock ECU will NOT compensate.

??? Rolling Eyes
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chrisss
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 11 December 2005 03:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
how does the safc work does it control fuel presure or is an ecu piggyback interceptor?

what r they worth approx?

b1gb3n - was your 4ag MAP or AFM?

I would expect the map versions to have a much worse idle than the afm version..

[Updated on: Sun, 11 December 2005 03:48]

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b1gb3n
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Re: 4AGE Ecu's, how much can they compensate? Sun, 11 December 2005 16:34 Go to previous message
mine was map. it intercepts the ecu.
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