| Author | Topic |
|---|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sat, 01 March 2003 13:58
|
 |
This evening i had a little experience in a 95 wrx.
Running a bigger turbo, boost controller (14psi) and 3 inch exhaust.
Probably the quickest car i have ever been in and it was scary fast! But it handled and still steers like a go cart.
Now im wondering, an MA61 with a 1jz will be ballistic but what is the best way to make it handle and stop.
I know paul is runniong Kmac camber adjustments and springs and ed is devising the 5 stud conversion for bigger brakes, but what is the best way to approach this because if this supra had as much power as the wrx i know there is no way to will stop or corner anywhere near as well.
Now i know this is a comparison between 2 different category cars and age, but how have the guys dropping in turbos to MA61's gone about handling issues.
I think its time SUPRAGTE, NORBIE and ED_MA_61 gave this thread a bit of thought 
ta guys, im almost tempted to go 7mgte over 1jz after that ride
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sat, 01 March 2003 13:59
|
|
spelling mistakes = beer
sorry. 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 00:57
|
|
depends what your purposes are.
the standard supra brakes are actually quite good ... you'd have to consider if it's worth forking out for a 5-stud conversion + new wheels + entirely new brake system. I'm considering it come time to buy some mags, but that is many months off.
handling I'd like to hear about too... my supra's been lowered and got kyb shocks.. and it screeches very easily around corners. It's only a gentle screech, it still corners beautifully, but is this normal?
and as for the conversion... remember if you get a 7m you wont have to pass an emissions test!
that said, I'm still glad I have the 1jz
|
|
|
Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 01:42
|
|
Here's a big big tip!
I put some KYB inserts in the front end of my new Supra and the difference was "outstanding". They are a very vast improvement from the stockers.
The KYB's are dual action gas, ie they work both ways in slowing the rebound of the spring. Especially good for taking speed humps at speed and essential for higher speed driving.
I have never felt really safe driving at high speeds(above 140km/h) in either of my MA61's. It just didn't feel safe to me. That much acceleration and not perfect suspension it wasn't the best thing, until now!
I went down the M2 and it felt like i was doing 60km/h when I was actually doing a "bit" more than that. The high speed stability is very re-assuring.
I've got King Springs all round, std height increased spring rate. I bought the lowered ones, took them back straight away, the rears dissapeared 3inches under the flares. They are way too low and I hate lowered cars as it is. Can't stand driving like a "fully sick" one through a car park afraid of my fully sick body kit.
The kings help alot too. I have K-mac camber adjusters on the front struts to dial on a bit of camber which helps conering speeds.
I've got some heavy duty shocks on the back, i wouldn't mind selling them and getting a set of KYB's for the rear to get the shock compression and rebound rates equal. So if anyone wants to buy them, $100 the pair, they are very firm, more than the KYB's.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 02:47
|
|
how much did those front kybs set you back paul, if you dont mind me asking. I'm really happy with my car lowered (it's only just over an inch lower, so it improves the profile and driveability, without making me worry about speed bumps)
what I'm worried about is, I was doing around 140 on a "track" the other day, which had a recommended speed of 60. there were some big crests and dips on it, and at that speed, there was enough travel in the suspension to make my mud flaps graze slightly at the front, and I'd really prefer if that didn't happen 
maybe some tighter springs would help?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 03:08
|
|
My plans are pretty simple: suspension the same as Paul Pyyvaara (full Whiteline kit, slightly lowered but nothing stupid), brakes the same as Ed is working on. Should do the job quite nicely I reckon! I agree the MA61 stops and handles better than a most cars if everything is in good condition, but chuck a turbo six in there and I think it's wise to upgrade things a little...
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 03:27
|
|
the whiteline kit is shocks and springs?
I might look into that. any ideas on how much it is lowered? I dont really want to go anything more than 1.5", 2" at the outside
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 03:45
|
|
|
paul pyyvaara put king springs on his..and koni sports shocks. looks very nice.
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 04:16
|
|
for road use: kings 'low' yellow springs are probably the simplest option. drop in and drive. theyll give you a real world 30mm drop - which is fine, zero scrubbing evident anywhere. the front feels a 'little' soft compared to the rear (get some GOOD shocks with decent compression damping, and that should take the hassle out). that said, they are street springs, so their aim of maintinaing some degree of comfort (not too much!) has to be considered.
problems with dropping the ma61: REAR CAMBER... like draven mentioned... in low to mid speed corners, the tail will have a tendancy to slide. the added you camber you get reduces tyre contact, and youll break away more easily - however, crank that corner speed up to 90kmh + and the back end will just dig in and abs-sa-fuckin-lutely RAIL!
we are talking like a go-kart....
dynamic driving (not freeway runs) up to ~170 has been thrown about on my kings and im abs stoked with their road holding. very predictable breakway...
draven, for track/road use, youll need 300lb/in rate front springs, 220lb/in rate rear springs (kings low are 185+ front (mild rising rate) and rears are 205lb/in). this still isnt optimal for track, but a better compromise.
cheers
ed
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 04:23
|
|
kings pn#
front: FTRL-31F
Rear: KTRL-27R
not exactly certain of the front pn# (cant read my own handwriting) but its something like that. the REAR pn# is definitely correct, so if stuck, just ask for the matching pair
ed
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 04:56
|
|
mm...
I'm fairly sure those are the springs that are on it at the moment.... I might just go with some good & hard shocks on the front, try and compensate for that
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 07:26
|
|
Thanks for the responses guys
So we have:
KYB shocks
King springs (standard or 1 inch lowered, effecting rear end)
Kmac camber struts
Seems simple enough.
What about sway barsand bushes or standard are just fine. Ive heard that fiddling with a sway bar will effect the break away point of the car and that is all.
No one has realy addressed brakes though...
Draven, id really like to hear how yours hold up?
Are we talking a simple DBA slotted disc, metal pads and a brake master cylinder firewall brace and hope for the best?
thanks guys.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 07:45
|
|
well, I could pop by some time and give you a ride if you like.
you're only around the corner
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra, ACT
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 07:50
|
|
You may want to consider Lovell spings as well, they are a very good quality spring, I run them and have been in a few cars with them in and they are very very good... good choice with the KYB's though, very nice
I'd say look at Whiteline for your swaybars they also supply polyurathene bushes with their bars as well.. its up to you if you change your other bushes at the same time, it is recommended if it hasn't been done for a while I guess..
As for brakes... not a clue sorry
-Andrew
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 08:02
|
|
hehe look forward to it draven
i gotta know how these things can pull up!
is all ur braking gear standard?
and its auto too isnt it?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 08:05
|
|
|
all the braking gear is standard. Fatter tyres (235s) which would help. It's running an auto ecu, but is actually a manual
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 09:09
|
|
give me a call sometime and we can organise to meet up sometime
my mobile number's 0402 774 901
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 10:45
|
|
glen - sway bars are plenty good stock
also, i think toymods members can get nolathane bushes cheap these days? check the sponsors page.
as for the brakes. well, i dont have an opinion there that you dont already know
personally, id go the -30mm springs. makes SUCH a difference to the handling. i wouldnt mind finding some roll centre adjusters to suit though.
oh, one last thing, ra60 fr suts will give you and extra 2-3deg more camber. a cheap way to get it if you ask me
cheers
ed
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
|
Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 11:30
|
|
I've put the new slotted rotors on last week with new pads. Metal kings, they haven't bedded in fully yet but i'll let you know how they go. I'm starting to think another pad type would be beneficial but i just thought id try the metal kings first as they were easily obtainable.
The initial bite isn't impressive and i like the feel of a pad that'll bite instantly but at high temps they are a very stable compound after talking to an enthusiast at Bendix Mintex.
We should all meet up at Rays or my place soon and have an MA61 meet for a few hours or the day.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 11:32
|
|
I'm in.
I might bea ble to get my hands on a 1jz manual ecu, to get me through till we can install that ecu.. which would be very nice for piece of mind (and power + engine health)
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 11:35
|
|
Sounds like a plan.
I think i have a lot to learn off a few of you guys regarding the MA61.
|
|
|
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 02 March 2003 23:14
|
|
Hey Guys,
I've probably come in late on the conversation, but this is what my suspension setup on my MA61. Firstly I have the 7MGTE motor in it.
At the fron I have (sports i think) Koni shocks which are internaly adjustable but have to pull them apart.
I personally think they are a little too hard for road use but are fantastic on a fairly smooth road or race track.
The rears, are Koni Adjustable and great cause you can adjust them it you what a bit of softer ride on the road and with a turn of the knob a harder ride for the track.
The springs I have Lovells (blue) springs not sure if they are standard or what but they feel awsome, on all four sides.
The car is slightly lowered just to get the ride hide nice with the tops of the wheels, just in line with the edge of the flares.
Any lower and it would be stupid and I'll probably rip shit out of front.
Brakes, haven't done anything yet but I've been told to changed the dics cause they have about 2000km left on them so I was thinking of the same as Paul's DBA slotted discs at the front.
The backs are fine.
Anyway thats my suspension setup.
Cheers
Darren
84 Supra 7MGTE
84 Supra 5ME
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Mon, 03 March 2003 10:19
|
|
ok, giving my supra a little squirt through corners, itseems to hold nicely, but slow cornering produces too much body roll for my liking
im guessing this is just the worn springs
will these lowered springs and shocks affect the dynamics of the suspension setup in the wet?
the car is a little tail happy by nature in the wet, can that be improved upon?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Mon, 03 March 2003 10:28
|
|
that's the defining characteristic of the ma61 (and the ra6x)
very tail happy in the wet ... I find that zero acceleration thru corners is the only way to avoid this.. even slight power has pulled the back unstuck on occasion
|
|
|
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Mon, 03 March 2003 11:55
|
|
Blacksupra is right, its the nature of the MA61 to be tail happy. On one occasion I remember coming home in the wet. I slowed for a car in front to turn into a street. Drop down to 2nd and slight accelarate. As soon as it began to come on boost in straight line have the car give a huge tail out. But with the drop off of the acceraltor pedal the car would flick back and gain control very easily.
And this is not just for the turbo car but the stock one too.
As for the body role, the stiffer springs will help along with matching Shocks to complement them.
Cheers
Darren
84 Supra 7MGTE
84 Supra 5ME
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 09 March 2003 07:31
|
|
BTW, What shocks do u need to run with 1 inch lowered springs?
Can u run standard shocks or will the springs unseat themselves?
ta
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 09 March 2003 09:36
|
|
|
This business with RA60 struts and camber - I use some xa6x struts in my ae86, but I'm not sure which ones, but I do know that I can't get enough neg camber even with the adjustment set right over, and was going to fit longer lower arms - are there other struts in the xa6x shape with more neg camber on the stubs? cheers!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 09 March 2003 09:44
|
|
|
I know someone who is using MX62 lower control arms on an RA40. I have absolutely NO idea if this will work on an MA61 to increase neg camber, let alone an AE86!!
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 09 March 2003 09:53
|
|
I just realised the King Springs are NOT progressive rate.
Do lovells offer a progressive rate spring for the MA61?
Are these Dobinsons springs from whiteline any good? and are they progressive rate?
ta guys.
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 09 March 2003 10:06
|
|
|
Yeah, I was looking at using cressida arms, I understand they add some serious neg camber (5+ degrees), although the adjusters might just fix it up to a nice 1.5-2 degrees, so long as the tie rod ends are long enough!
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 09 March 2003 11:56
|
|
kyb or konis are apparently good.
my kyb's are nice, although the kings up front I'd like a bit stiffer.
but I'm not one to complain, or spend money fixing an already decent setup until the more serious problems are fixed
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How to make an MA61 handle and stop??
|
Sun, 09 March 2003 12:03
|
|
|
I'm beginning to wonder if I do in fact have MA61 struts! I'll take a look at them tomorrow, and compare them with the SA63 in the front yard, and if that dont look quite right, I'll get some from an RA60 and make certain.
|
|
|
