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Registered:
March 2003
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sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Mon, 03 March 2003 22:43
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ok im new to this, i currently have a sprinter 83 model and i have almost finisshed with my 4agze conversion the mtx-8 is all that left and turning the bitch on, www.4agze.com did help in my conversion but let me tell u that they dont tell u everything in there. it was more work than i thought hence more money then i planned but it was fun! so i have the power but braking system is not good, the smell of brake pads after a run : P so pls help me with my next project which is the brake system i want to put bigger rotors and brakes on the front and have discs at the back as well is there any site or how to do it place where i can get this, i need to know what can go on my car eg. what brakes of which car model etc etc the full info thanx any help and im gratefull
cheers
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 05:47
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im not dissin the web site or anything like that i was just pointing out to new starters that about to put a 4agze in that there are little thing that u have to consider when puttin the engine in, what do u think that i dont like the web site or im not happy with what was said if it wasnt for that web site i would of been no where im happy with my results
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 10:01
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Normally I'd suggest to look for an import AE86 rear diff with the rear discs however seeing that you have a 4AGZE, I'd doubt if such a diff could handle the power and still last in the long run. Same goes for your T50 gearbox if you still have it.
I thought about a 4AGZE conversion but decided against it as a proper conversion would at least require an upgrade to a W55 supra gearbox, better driveline and a rear diff that would be unbreakable.
Sprinters are more of a handling car, not outright power down the quarter mile. If I was after that, I'd have gotten a S13 or S14 & just wound up the boost. 
I'd recommend look at making a suitable diff that can handle the power, perhaps a hilux diff (you'll still have rear drums though) or fabricating something else. I know of someone fitting a R31 Skyline diff however there is a SR20det going in front along with the S13 gearbox.
Even then, if your front pads are the ones which are wearing out first, it suggests you're having a braking bias problem?
Besides, drums offer better braking than discs. Perhaps you should consider ventilating your rear drums?
[Updated on: Tue, 04 March 2003 10:02]
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 10:34
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| Dodgy_Haro wrote on Tue, 04 March 2003 21:01 |
Besides, drums offer better braking than discs. Perhaps you should consider ventilating your rear drums?
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dude are you sure about this.... i mean drums better than discs
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 11:21
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I am in this rear diff building process , let's swap some info on this subject , i have been trying to get a R31 rear diff for a while with no luck ?? does anyone know anyone with one ?? We all know they are no good in Skylines becaust the gearing is all wrong for sitting at 100kph {noisy], you have to change gearing if you want to runone for road , or get someone who know's what they are doing to build it . Does anyone have any ideas or who to use to build one ?????????????????????????????
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 11:28
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Chris ... ha hah ... in a sort of way ...
Drums offer more braking power HOWEVER they heat up quicker and don't dissipate the heat as efficiently as rear discs.
So ... discs are prefered trackwise given that the car can go longer & retain its braking capacity longer than if you had drums.
Drums on the other hand when heated aren't as effective hence are not so popular in applications that require constant breaking. For the street, drums should be enough ...
I'm sure there is a more scientific explanation for this but I'll let someone else explain / elaborate for me. 
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 11:59
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im about to put in jap spec rear end soon. I'll see then if discs are better.. 
I have another car, its a 1973 mini convertible, drums all around... takes ages for a complete stop. I have to drive granny style. Discs conversion cost $1500 ouch. !!!!!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 12:12
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Chris ... I already have a Jap spec rear ...
I found that despite there being a potential braking bias problem, I didn't need to worry about adjusting the brake bias so far. Then again, I haven't taken it to the track yet.
Pity it's a non-LSD rear end though ... I'm seriously thinking of getting an LSD as both Cusco & TRD no longer make them so that only leaves KAAZ which is the more expensive of the three.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 12:22
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Drums are the most powerful brakes out there... check out any large truck, not a disc brake to be seen! It's true that they don't dissipate heat well though, which is why they're not used in cars much any more. However, an AE86 is a light car and the rear brakes are only doing 20-30% of the work, so drums are unlikely to cause problems unless you're doing serious track work.
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 20:41
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ok what about the fronts dude, what would be a good recommendation i wanna put 15" rims as well (straight fit) bigger the front brake the better right?
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Tue, 04 March 2003 21:36
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ok what about getting bigger from braking system leave the back drums and work on my gearbox and diff and a good one would be a w55 supra gearbox and diff is that a straight fit? does that mean custom tailshaft? and later on LSD and rear brake if i can find out whats the best and easiest way in doing it with do much hassles or use reckon hilux diff? any good radiator + themo fan recommendation for a sprinter?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 00:39
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Do a search, all of these questions have been answered many times over.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 00:40
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have a look at some of the articles here on the Toymods website. They will answer some of your questions about LSD/bigger diffs, and improved front braking.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 02:18
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| Dodgy_Haro wrote on Tue, 04 March 2003 21:01 |
Even then, if your front pads are the ones which are wearing out first, it suggests you're having a braking bias problem?
Besides, drums offer better braking than discs. Perhaps you should consider ventilating your rear drums?
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Hmmm...Is it only me, or do others have a problem with statements like this?
Firstly, If the front pads are wearing out first, I'd suggest that the braking bias is correct, given that, under most braking circumstances/weight transfer, your braking effort "should" be split approx 70/30 F/R. Thus, you would expect the fronts to wear quicker.
Second, Drums offer better braking than discs...Perhaps I should have done a conversion on my Cressida, after I put the 1UZ in it, from 4-wheel discs to 4-wheel drums??? (ROFLMFAO  )
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 10:07
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I agree with Dodgy Haro.
Ten few years ago I rallied a Mazda RX7 Series 1, which have ventilated disc front/drum rear brakes. I changed the brakes for Series 3, which are ventilated discs front and rear. They wrre excellent for competition. However, a couple of years later I temporarily refitted the rear drum brakes, and found that they gave noticeably quicker bite/response around the street than the discs. So, the bottom line is that, unless you're really going to indulge in serious track work, drums may well be OK. (By the way, Sprinters with 4AGEs sold in Europe were supplied with the 6.7" diff and rear drums.)
As for bigger front discs, I've recently seen (CCC?) an article that shows bigger, etc front discs genuinely shorten stopping distances (i.e. it was a proper before-and-after comparison.) However, if all you're worried about is fade, buy good disc pads.
My TA22, built for historic rallying, with standard (non-ventilated)Sprinter front discs and calipers gets from the top to the bottom of the Abercrombie Gorge (between Goulburn and Oberon)seriously quickly without fade. (For those who aren't familiar with the road, it's steep and has a number of hairpin bends.) My disc pads are Pagids - expensive (approx. $500) but no fade. But not sexy. You need to decide whether you're serious or just into car decoration.
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 10:09
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I agree with Dodgy Haro.
Ten few years ago I rallied a Mazda RX7 Series 1, which have ventilated disc front/drum rear brakes. I changed the brakes for Series 3, which are ventilated discs front and rear. They were excellent for competition. However, a couple of years later I temporarily refitted the rear drum brakes, and found that they gave noticeably quicker bite/response around the street than the discs. So, the bottom line is that, unless you're really going to indulge in serious track work, drums may well be OK. (By the way, Sprinters with 4AGEs sold in Europe were supplied with the 6.7" diff and rear drums.)
As for bigger front discs, I've recently seen (CCC?) an article that shows bigger, etc front discs genuinely shorten stopping distances (i.e. it was a proper before-and-after comparison.) However, if all you're worried about is fade, buy good disc pads.
My TA22, built for historic rallying, with standard (non-ventilated)Sprinter front discs and calipers gets from the top to the bottom of the Abercrombie Gorge (between Goulburn and Oberon) seriously quickly, without fade. (For those who aren't familiar with the road, it's steep and has a number of hairpin bends.) My disc pads are Pagids - expensive (approx. $500) but no fade. But not sexy. You need to decide whether you're serious or just into car decoration.
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 10:13
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 Whoops! Sorry for the double entry. My limited knowledge of cars vastly exceeds my knowledge of computers!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 13:48
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Heh heh ... don't get me wrong ... 
I'm not trying to mislead people ... it's true that drums offer better stopping power but in the long run can't dispel the heat generated as quickly as discs.
To Sprinterboy4AGZE who asked the question in the first place, I know you probably bought the Sprinter with a 4AGZE which is a start however if that is all the mods that have been done on the car, you'd better rethink a stronger diff + driveline + gearbox to complement the 4AGZE.
Don't follow the crowd converting to discs just becuz everyone else does it. Know the reason why they do and then decide if that is the reason for it. Getting discs may not necessarily give you the stopping power you're looking for.
Perhaps a Hilux diff will stand the power with drums. I know of a Datsun 260Z up here that is running R32 Skyline engine + driveline. That car still manages to brake effectively with disc fronts & drum rears (which are ventilated).
Perhaps the best advice is to see who else is running a Sprinter 4AGZE and find out what setup they are using. From past experience, there have been many threads of broken T-50 gearboxes ... so that may be the downside of owning a 4AGZE Rwd car.
Good luck & do your research well before diving in!
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Wed, 05 March 2003 20:58
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ok so what im thinkin of doin is getting a bigger braking system for the fronts umm..hilux diff, w55 supra gearbox whats the driveline? do u think all this will match up?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
fairfield NSW
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Fri, 07 March 2003 02:37
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2WD Hilux's have a 5x114.3 stud pattern, but it's not hard to have them redrilled to 4-stud. The drum brakes are quite large, and in fact are probably a lot better than the tiny disc brakes on an AE86 rear axle.
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Location:
Japan
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Fri, 07 March 2003 14:15
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Sprinterboy4AGZE my sprinter has RA40 discs on the front and the braking is fine (DBA even make slotted vented rotors for them). A set of DBAs and some good pads works fine on a Sprinter.
As for the diff, well it looks like i will be fitting a hilux diff too now. Something with 4.44:1 gears or so. I have looked at a few alternatives and the hilux seems to be the cheapest, alot cheaper than that factory Levin LSD for $1650 that was advised on here earlier! The hilux is alot stronger too. If you still want discs on the rear and worry about 'all that power' then just go and buy a Ford 9". You can't get much stronger. Plus i once bought an LSD disc brake 9" for $350!!! By the time it's fitted it will still be cheaper than a bloody LEVIN diff. But a 9" must weigh 45-55kg! But you have a choice of every ratio you could ever want, full spools, mini spools, detroit lockers...
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Sun, 09 March 2003 14:18
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I agree with Dodgy Haro too, hard to imagine 2 small pieces of fibre can grip a slippery disc as good as a rounded shoe gripping a round drum, but obviously heat is the #1 problem, other long list of problems is, disc are self cleaning, self-adjusting (some drums are self-adjusting too), disc are easier to maintain (room for argument here), and disc looks GOOD! (In this current time anyway)
and I also agree with brake bias problems too, your 70/30 ratio may be right for a front wheel drive car, but for a Sprinter, it's probably closer to 60/40, but then, remember the front disc are bigger, and so are the pads, so why should the front wear out quicker than the rear?? WHY?? 
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Location:
Redbank Plains,near Ipswi...
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: sprinter ae-86 rwd disk conversion ques?
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Sun, 09 March 2003 21:02
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my race (only) sprinter has 266mm vented discs on front with 4 pot calipers and 277mm on rear also with 4 pot calipers. these are fantastic, but of course any set-up needs good pads. I've made a few "copy" sets for road car users. The trap with RX7 and most other modern road car brakes is they require a large (25mm or greater) master cylinder, which the sprinter does not have. you need to upgrade this also. many people get caught with poor response or long travel, because they have not done the hydraulics calcs and get it all wrong. I still have some stuff for sale, but it ain't cheap cause its all hand made brackets etc. the ultimate problem with a sprinter is the disc hits the lower ball joint. the only "cheap" solution is to upgrade to celica or supra brakes, and there are articles on this floating around. anyone interested can email me off this forum tobeirne@skillpro.com.au.
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