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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2002
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3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sat, 08 March 2003 02:08
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im contemplating doing this. anyone have any advice to offer? things to watch for? any help would be appreciated.
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sat, 08 March 2003 05:02
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Hey dude, this is CEL3SGTE from celica.net. As u know ive done this swap. Let me know if u want any info at all... I can come help u look for the front clip when ur ready too...
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Mon, 10 March 2003 04:40
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If you can find it, get a rear cut from a MR2 Turbo with engine and tranmission.
Otherwise you can get an engine and tranmission from a GT4, but you will need to modify the 4WD tranmission to handle constant FWD application.
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Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Tue, 11 March 2003 01:29
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save yourself the money & heartache...
buy a gt4 instead
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Tue, 11 March 2003 02:37
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yeah what danny said!
honestly a GT4 can be had for a BARGAIN price these days! Like an ST185 GT4 for arouynd $12k... or a Carlos Sainz Grp A for something like $16k
think about it.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Tue, 11 March 2003 06:01
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There are power advantages out of putting the GTE into an 002 series celica. There is almost no power loss like in a 4wd drivetrain. the power is delivered directly to the front wheels. Traction is your only problem. a 3SGTE'd 162 could beat teh crap out of a lot of 4wd cars out there.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Thu, 13 March 2003 02:35
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........if it ever left the line.
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Thu, 13 March 2003 05:36
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Ive got a 3SGTE converted Celica and traction is no problem... torque steer is however... ive driven many GT4's, both stock and modified and my car feels a lot faster.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Thu, 13 March 2003 07:10
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Traction is no problem?
GZE's have problems with tration in corolla's, so I can't see how a 3sgte FWD could have no problem.
I know Mikey has staed on the forums before his 3sgte powered corolla has significant traction problems, and I can't see an st162 being that much better chassis (in terms of traction/launch).
Benmeyer is right on the lack of loss in the power train though.
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Location:
camden
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Thu, 13 March 2003 08:47
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fellas ive seen it before a gt2 and a gt4 in a drag and the front wheel drive turbo abselutatly flogged the gt4 mainly because of power/weight ratio but traction wise if you dont dump the clutch its fine with fatter tyres of course but if you do dump the clutch it mainly 1st gear thats a problem then they hit 2nd gear a and take off cause they are so light but the other problem is gearboxes, you can use stock sx gearboxes but they tend to blow if you thrash it, my friend darren had a sss pulsar and he put a sr20det out of a gtir import pulsar and after blowing 2 standard boxes he stregthened the internals of a standard box and had no probs and he had 201kw at the front wheels, so why cant you do the same thing with a celica sx box, just stregthen the internals, use gt4 front drive shafts and a decent heavy duty clutch...things should be fine and watch out in the wet.... and dude dont listen to people tellin you to just settle on a gt4, do the conversion on a gt2 and whoop gt4's arses... i know gt4s are quick but everyones got one. have fun with it...
cheers king16
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Thu, 13 March 2003 09:49
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celica:- hey dude, i got your post with those emails in it, i was stoked.. appreciated. like i said, any info is a plus for me.. thanks
why would i do this over buying a GT4? easy. a learning experience. Im not really experienced with this sort of thing, so im getting a few people who do know, im suplying the money and the muscle, and im gunna learn a shit load about my car, turbos, and everything else in the mean time. im young (22) single, and have a full time job so i can afford to do it now. in 5 years time, who knows where ill be and i might not have the resources for it, and i want to own a boosted car before i settle down. How fast is this car gunna be, its gunna be awesome to drive. once i learn how to get it off the line. its gunna be great fun, great experience, and im gunna track drive the car once its done. Plus its a hall of alot lighter than a GT4.
and cause i can.
my celi is an ST 184.
and i cant wait for some dude in a VL to look at my car, call it a hairdressers car, then watch the look of shock on his face in my rear view as i kill him off the line, and embarass him in front of all his friends cause he thinks he is too cool.
and cause i can haha.
ill be using the 3S transmission.. im going to track drive the car so i dont want to be blusting clutches every second week.
thanks for all the help. keep it comin.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Thu, 13 March 2003 11:22
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If you learn to launch it properly, you're in for a wild ride. remember that a 4WD drivetrain also adds between 130 and 150kg to the weight of the car. Get yourself some nice fat Dunlop FM901's to wrap around your wheels. There are serious advantages to a blown 162. It will be extremely competetive on the racetrack. Keep us posted on how you go mate.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sat, 15 March 2003 05:40
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yeha i know.. the difference in weight is gunna make it alot faster than a stock GT4 thats for sure.. as soon as i figure out how to launch it withouht breaking traction.. might even be a case of 2nd gear starts haha.
will keep you all updated. not getting done till a bit later in the year at the earliest... but better to do the research now and have it sorted than later when i want to do it then get bogged down with paperwork.
anyone know how i get a conversion like this engineered properly.. and even if is has to be or can be engineered?
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sat, 15 March 2003 07:45
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I blew the diff inside my standard box... now the car has an MR2 turbo box with gt4/mr2 hybrid driveshafts... thats the best way of getting around the gearbox problem...
Traction is not a problem if u know how to drive the car properly... if u rev it to 6k then dump the clutch, u will spin through 1st, 2nd and probably 3rd. If u slip the clutch a bit from 3k and take it easy ull be fine...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sun, 16 March 2003 10:32
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Sepand (Celica) is right, mine has traction problems if you drive it the wrong way, and even with 150kw @ fw it can really spin into 3rd.
But even with my button clutch, I leave the line with around 3200rpm, sorta get it to the friction point and balance throttle with wheel spin and it takes off damn quickly (probably never get over 75% throttle in 1st), not as fast as a rwd with good traction, but quick enough to catch up by end of 1st gear to most cars,2nd gear on most 4wds. If you do it this way 2nd gear shouldnt spin at all, and the other car can just watch your tail end disappear.
Good tyres and suspension setup are a must with a FWD and will take time to get right, get it wrong and it will just tramp and spin. Ive found my full roll cage has taken a lot of tramp of out the car, the chassis is so much more predictable and sturdy. Ive still gotta get some rose jointed chromoly control arms made to quell some torque steer (bushes just distort under load) and car torque steers bad.
Anyhow even with wheelspin al ight car will propel fast, more torque than with weight to move is perfect. A big fat heavy car will just spin on the spot.
There is my 5c.
Sep good to hear your mr2 box is in and stuff, hows it all going? Did you convert the box and shafts easily enough?
Oh also, use a FWD celcia box you are stupid, crown wheels and pinions are weak. Use an MR2 turbo box....its the only way to go.
Michael
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sun, 16 March 2003 10:51
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Hey can I grab some knowledge about what gearbox/shafts/shifter/etc. is used? I'm gonna be doing a mate's SV21 camry with a gen3 from an MR2 in a few months, and need to learn exactly how to use the MR2 box the other way round  Something about V6 camry selector rails? Please share!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sun, 16 March 2003 11:49
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its pretty easy
you use the v6 camry manual selector shafts in place of the plate on the mr2 box, cut the mr2 shafts near the casing and pull the remainder out of where the plate is.
make a cap to seal where the mr2 shafts come out of. (front ofthe casing)
you will have to drill and tap the two holes where the selector forks bolt in the casing, the casting is there for them, just not drilled and tapped
thats about it
regards,
Michael
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Sun, 16 March 2003 13:30
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Hey Micheal... the gearbox is in and the car will hopefully be home tommorrow from the workshop... everything seems to have gone ok... the car should have been finished already but i had forgot to supply the bracket that holds the selector cables to the box so by the time i got around to getting that it took an extra couple of days... The driveshafts were the easiest to modify- all that was required was to unbolt the inner ends of the MR2 ones from the outers and bolt on the GT4 outers... the info u gave me was extremely helpful and made the job much easier... i cant wait to take the car for a drive when its done and actually experience a clutch that can grip properly as opposed to the crappy 5SFE disk... I'll install my boost controller in a few days and boost it up to around 12psi... i cant see that helping the traction situation at all but it should make a nice quick car... thanks again for all your help champ
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Mon, 17 March 2003 02:07
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Why did you mix n match the driveshafts? Why not use the whole MR2 ones?
I'm thinking about putting an MR2 LSD with the two piece driveshafts in my car.
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Mon, 17 March 2003 03:49
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The outer ends of the MR2 driveshafts wont fit into the Celica/GT4 hubs... thats why you have to use the GT4 outers... u cant use full GT4 driveshafts coz the inners wont fit into the MR2 gearbox
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Mon, 17 March 2003 05:05
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Is that because the splines are different?
I've been trying to found out some stuff about the shafts, like lengths, distance from gearbox to the bearing support on the longer shaft, spline dimensions,etc.
My car is only fwd, so I don't know whether some of this stuff will fit. And I don't want to spend the cash if it won't.
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Mon, 17 March 2003 08:16
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If the splines are the end bits that go into the hub and gearbox then yes they are different btn the two driveshafts...one is thicker than the other
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3SGTE conversion to 91 SX celica...
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Mon, 17 March 2003 10:05
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Thanks for the answer Celica, Ive been atwork all day! lol..
Heres why..
MR2 shafts have larger outer cv joint splines into the hubs (more splines too), 3mm thicker I believe....the main shafts are the same thickness (30mm) and the MR2 has a larger inner cv spline (like 10mm thicker than GT4), lengths are almost physically the same (complete halfshafts), but MR2 uses a balance/extension shaft into the gearbox from the halfshaft on the driver side. They wont fit you're gearbox unless you can bolt em up to the inner cvs (gt4/mr2 use 6 hex bolts at the joint) if your's doesnt, then they probably wont match the inner splines of the differential either...only one way to try, buy em and see...
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