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benmeyer
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October 2002

Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 00:01

I'm looking for even more power than than the ct26 will provide when i do my gte swap into the 162. What are good brands and indeed good sizes for the 3SGTE? also, do you have the exact model numbers? i think the ct26 has a ceramic bearing, would ball bearings be better? thanks guys [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 00:27

I have been told the turbo off a 7MGTE is a good starting point. [Report message to a moderator]

benmeyer
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 00:38

got a model number? how about aftermarket turbos? [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 00:54

Dont know model number sorry. [Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 01:31

Its a single-entry CT26... [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 01:42

Thats right, now I remember. Then get it hi-flowed. [Report message to a moderator]

Danners
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 02:02

A popular one is taking the CT26 from the 7M-GTE and getting it hi-flowed with the internals from a Garret T04 Turbo. http://www.jblmk3.com/id97.htm for more info ^^ If you decide to go for this let me know! i'm interested in getting it done as well Dan [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 02:17

Farrrk Yeah. That looks good. How much would that cost? [Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 02:43

That would have MUCHO lag on a 3SGTE. You'd be better off looking for perhaps one of the Garrett GT series turbos. I've heard the GT25R is a popular upgrade for an MR2, so it'd be perfect for you probably. [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 14 March 2003 03:20

I dont think there would be to much lag at all. All that has been changed is the compressor! Not the turbine! [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sat, 15 March 2003 09:08

Shane changing a compressor can INDEED create a lot of lag .In order to make a decent amount of power these turbos usually undergo BIG mods and end up somewhat laggy . It all comes down to how much power is needed If you can get a ct20b twin entry turbo and look at a wheel change and extrusion honing for manifold turbo housing and intake .for around $2500 the total package WILL (and has) made 320 H.p++++ to all fours this is good for low 12 second 1/4 mile (or quicker) .You will still need a good clutch If youd like to see how good this setup goes im helping a mate prepare that exact setup for the nationals this easter .come along and see the results Otherwise frank is dead right go for a gt turbo but unless your budget is close to $10,000 then i would look at the above mod turbo $3,000 manifold $1500 ecu $2500 ++ Clutch $1,000 ( engine has to come out so add more$$ unless diy ) injectors 600 then you need intercooler ,plumbing, gaskets ,boost control etc etc etc [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sat, 15 March 2003 09:23

320Hp seems like a bit of a crap figure considering that TA22-3SGTE Trevor is getting 260Kw at the wheels using the standard turbo as far as I know! [Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sat, 15 March 2003 09:25

Take a look at THIS PAGE. Its from Cypher Industries in WA. They offer a bolt-on ball-bearing upgrade for a Celica GT4 which would only require new oil and water lines as it bolts to the standard manifold. If you were keen on a totally different turbo, you could pick up a GT25R, they list the price as high 2000's or something. All options to consider. [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sat, 15 March 2003 23:20

hey bolt on to factory manifold thats AWESOME !!.although to get 320 4whp you would need more like 470 h.p the big frame custom job at $3800 is promising . Saves like $700 on manifold but to get more than 320 rwhp youll still need ecu injectors etc shane the turbocharger i am talking about IS a stock turbo for an ST205 WRC 3sgte .they are just a much more efficient turbo .EVEN the factory dump pipe can BARELY be improved on Considering that a stock Group a st 205 makes about 205 HP @ wheels ( 3 inch exhuast) . then 320 is a considerable improvment .Remember everything else is stock ecu,intercooler ,injectors and this is a conservative figure based on around 17 psi boost .(wait and see) The actual wheel has only been replaced with an almost identical steel item so no additional lag has been introduced .In fact the honing improved flow so much that lag has slighlty decreased 320 4whp = 238 4wkw @ all four wheels in rear wheel drive configuration the power loss (from flywheel) would be at least 15% LESS than a 4 wheel drive the power loss figures from TRD for MOST toyota transmission setups are RWD manual 15% loss RWD Auto 22% loss 4wd MAN 32% loss i'll assume the 3sgte is manual So 260 rwkw = 85% of engine H.p so 260/85 x 100 = 305 kw @ engine and 238 4wkw = 68% of engine h.p so 238/68 x 100 = 350 kw @ engine CRAP figue i think not !!!the engine is making some 45 KW more from $2500 worth of modifications hmmmm a 1400kg car with a 5 puck ceramic clutch and can be launched at 6000 rpm with 238 4wkw (more than ANY 1j has pulled with stock turbos). AND it was only good for low 5 sec 0-100 when it has making 165 4wkw YEP its crap [Updated on: Sat, 15 March 2003 23:55] [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sun, 16 March 2003 00:09

The figure I quoted was for a 165! But i'll be interested to see how you got with what your doing! Also the CT20B turbo fitted to the ST205 is a ceramic item! Not something I would like to have fitted to an engine producing big power! [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Sun, 16 March 2003 12:13

shane it would really help if you actually read what i say

Quote:

The actual wheel has only been replaced with an almost identical steel item so no additional lag has been introduced

165 or 205 the are basically the same engine different turbo different ecu

the best way for him to improve that power figure would be to change to the ct 20b

The only component that is ceramic is the wheel itself .high H.p is not an issue with ceramics only high boost.

ceramic wheels cannot handle the heat that is generated at high boost .However this is relative to the actual compressor efficiency .if a turbo is still within its efficiency range at 20 psi and has a ceramic wheel then reliability is not an issue . the factory boost cut is 18 psi .and the ecu maps to 17(standard).ct 20b's will handle 17 psi all day .and extrusion honing a turbo charger actually decreases compressor temps

The only reason for changing the wheel was so that more boost could be run at a later date

As far as using that turbo in high h.p .the ST205 WRC is the wrc spec .in other words that is the turbo designed for toyotas wrc gt4

So toyota intended that turbo fot HIGH h.p applications

The ct26 was actually considered as it has been extensively previously modified with good results .however after doing my homework. The guy doing the turbo advised me to use the ct20b as he has successfully modified this turbo to produce well over 500 h.p before

you are more than welcome to inspect the setup at the nationals

If you bring your Celica along i can show show how to PROPERLY mount the 1j in the Ra23 so that it handles MUCH BETTER than a 23 with an 18rc

[Updated on: Sun, 16 March 2003 12:19]

[Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sun, 16 March 2003 12:33

I'm not using a 1j!! Where did that come into the story? So how is this guy modifying the ct20b to get over 500hp? I'll be interested in this as long as the ceramic wheel gets dumped! There is no way in hell i'll be running a ceramic wheel on a hight hp high boost engine! But i'm interested anyway! Who is this guy and how much is he charging to do the modification? Also I dont know what the standard boost cut is on the ST205, but I have the mines ecu with the higher boost cut and I hope to be using this to its full potential! [Report message to a moderator]

Cyber-punk
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sun, 16 March 2003 12:47

Maybe he puts a NOS sticker on the turbine housing and some neons around the exhaust manifold? [Report message to a moderator]

benmeyer
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Mon, 17 March 2003 11:50

Or perhaps he has a speed-increasing bodykit or one of those subwoofers which adds nearly 300hp? [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Mon, 17 March 2003 12:59

No wonder you guys drive slow cars Shane sorry i had you confused with another guy on another forum that is always giving me shit .his handle is cool 1j ( i went back and checked).with a pic of a red ra 23 i was sure you where the same guy (always whinging about how he cant get it to handle). ANYWAY sorry about the mix up ring ATS is melbourne they can do the steel wheel and organise the extrusion honing .as i said before to get this result total cost is $2500 here is a power run of the exact same setup on an st185 .It was using the shitty factory air/air unit .and a LOT more work has gone into the manifolds on the st205 but i guess you get the idea full results on wy webpage in about 3 weeks as you can see the power run was done in third gear a reasonable hold figure here would be 310-315 [Updated on: Mon, 17 March 2003 13:04] [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Mon, 17 March 2003 13:10

So with the steel wheel and the extrusion honing the turbo would be capable of flowing 500hp? I wouldn't mind spending $2500 on that turbo for this kind of power potential! [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Mon, 17 March 2003 13:19

ATS-Turbo 20 Assembly Drv Tullamarine 3043 (03) 9335 1254 Is this the place dude? [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Mon, 17 March 2003 13:33

Also does the waste gate actuator get modified somehow to handle any extra boost? [Report message to a moderator]

ddeane
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Mon, 17 March 2003 21:57

Gidday This is most probably extending the discussion a little but if the 3SGTE can cope with the flow of a CT26 would there be any problems using a CT26 on a 1ggte. I read on an earlier threat that you would most like face excessive lag problems. I have a 7MGTE Ct26 that I would like to use?? Craig [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Tue, 18 March 2003 04:58

Well I rang ATS today and the guy didnt mention anything about modifing a CT20 for 500hp or more! The only thing that he said is that they fit a compressor wheel from a VL turbo! So whats the secret word to get information on the ct20 that flows 500hp? [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Tue, 18 March 2003 09:07

as i said ATS can do the steel wheel mod and will put you on to someone that can do the extrusion honing .(THEY DO NOT DO EXTRUSION HONING).a wheel mod alone would increase the turbos flow by about 20 H.P . ATS wouldnt even have a clue how much was gained from the honing .there is only one guy in Melbourne that does extrusion honing so really cant get it wrong . i had the extrusion honing done by a mate as a one off .he wasnt any cheaper but spent a lot of time getting the design perfect and yes i would suggest porting the wastegate And no the specs are not available its not my turbo and the owner wants to to keep it to himself although i dont agree with this i have to respect it [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Tue, 18 March 2003 09:14

ddeane Sorry i missed your post .yes a ct 26 would be a good swap for a 1ggte lag would be no more than a 3sgte . In fact the reason im playing with these is im considering a kit for 1ggte and 1jzgte . BUT having said that racecraft in melbourne sell a turbo and manifold for a 1ggte that uses a 550 h.p garret gt turbo . the results have been AWESOME with over 300 kw at the wheels using stock internals THIS IS THE BABY FOR BEST RESULTS [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Tue, 18 March 2003 09:17

Well i've had enough of this crap! When I see a CT20 flowing 500hp i'll belive it! For starters you would have to do something to the wastegate to stop it from opening! From your dummshit attitude it sounds like your either full of shit or your just relaying something someone else said! I dont know why you even bother posting on this forum! So far every post you have made in this thread has not been very clear at all and then when i ask you something you reply with some fucked up dummshit remark! So from this point on untill you change your attitude, or untill you make your posts clear I'll just belive you are full of shit! [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Tue, 18 March 2003 12:16

what a BABY did you want me to ring them and organise it all for you .perhaps i can come and fit it as well .

maybe i can detail your car for you while im there ????

Quote:

ring ATS is melbourne they can do the steel wheel and organise the extrusion honing

what was so unclear about this .

you ring dem ...day organize bloke to port turbos for u

did you even ask about extrusion honing do you EVEN know WHAT it is ????

you said

Quote:

320Hp seems like a bit of a crap figure considering that TA22-3SGTE Trevor is getting 260Kw at the wheels using the standard turbo as far as I know!

so one minute its a crap figure the next 470 is to unbelievable to be true

so which is it a crap figure or to good to believe

whos talking shit now ????

did it even occur to you that the factory wastegate MIGHT just handle 500H.P...HAVE YOU EVER TRIED IT

NO thats right some bloke in a pub or on a forums reckons it wouldnt work cause his mates cousin tried it(who is actually porking his sister)and when they ported the turbo with a gernie and some sand it NEVER WENT NO GOOD

If you even just looked at the link danners posted a few posts ago you would see a ct26 making MORE than 500 Hp you ignorant KNOB

http://www.jblmk3.com/id97.htm

ive given a few of my designs away for free on here before only to have them riduculed by people like you that sit at home and think........ohhh i dont think that would work ..without even trying them

well thats only because youve never tried

get off your computer and actually BUILD a real car .Ive built
10 or more serious high performance cars and have almost finished a 700++ h.p celica .

in 1988 i built a 200 hp @ wheels car thats ran 0-100 in 6 secs .where were you ...even born or just learning how to pull yourself off

stop doing it ..read a little and learn like i have been(and still am ) from people that actually do this stuff

the power graph above is from my dyno ya goose !!

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ACTUALLY READ WHAT I SAY......YOU CAN READ RIGHT ????

and then make the call . now try again tomorrow ring ats and ask them for the name of the guy in Melbourne that does the power porting .i think its called specialized power porting

youve got the shits with the forum becasue everyone wont go out of their way to all the work for you

i can hear your call now

"yeah mate umm can i get one of doze 500 h.p tirbos maate .like doze fully sick one dat guy on toymods got

fuck im glad i didnt give you his number .hes already sick of knobs like you telling him his proven shit wont work

i' bet youve got a pod filter a VERY expensive blow off valve
a crap restrictive exhaust . a monster tacho and have apersonal best 1/4 mile time of 14.6 ......full siik maate

change your name to tool 1 ...its far more fitting

i couldnt give a shit if you think im full of shit
ive got nothing to prove to you i do it on the drag strip

PLEASE DONT do it !! ....NOT THAT YOU WOULD OF ANYWAY

perhaps youd like to line this st 205 up it will be on the road in about three weeks

nah your cars not quite right at the moment
not running enough boost and your mummy cant give you pocket money till next week

you couldnt posibly have time to actually work on a car youve been too busy racking up 2647 posts
Laughing

[Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Tue, 18 March 2003 12:27

Well you've just proven your full of shit! You cant even read your own posts! Not one of your posts made sense at all! And when I asked you a simple little queston you got narky and said some shit! You've been babbling some shit about a CT20 that will flow 500hp plus but you have nothing to prove this(so whos full of shit?). You said "ring ATS is melbourne they can do the steel wheel and organise the extrusion honing .as i said before to get this result total cost is $2500" So I ring them up and ask what they can do with a CT20! They say we can only do a wheel exchange for $690. Now how the fuck am I meant to know from your posted shit that I was meant to ask for contact details for someone else to do the job? Maybe you should be more clear! Maybe you should read all your past posts and you would realise that none of them made sense! In fact the only post by you in this thread that made a tiny bit of sense is your last one where you acted like a school girl! [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 19 March 2003 07:21

Sorry i didnt relaise that a dyno graph wasnt enough proof ...fuck you are DUMB!!!! did you even go to school???? you are what we commonly call a GUNNA.....gunna do this gunna do that but expect everyone to go out of their way to do all the homework for you and eventually NEVER do it anyway from what ive been told you haven't even got the engine yet . anyway don't bother replying to this cause Ive actually got two fast cars to work on UNLIKE you .so i haven't got time to waste my time on uneducated fools like you [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 19 March 2003 08:17

Well you obviously didn't read all your past posts! As I said, I cannot understand them! If you read them you will understand that I do not understand them! You need to be more clear! I was happy with all the posts but I just could not understand them, thats why I kept asking you questions! But your reply was always a stupid remark! This is why I was lead to believe that you were full of shit! If your replies were to the point and not just an attempt to sidestep the question, everything would still be fine! Also I don't know you told you I don't even have an engine yet but I have posted over a link to over one hundred photos of it! I have also sold parts from the half cut on here! So this proves the fact that you believe any dribble that you hear! Also that dyno graph does not prove anything about a CT20 flowing 500HP+. So please read your past posts! I am willing to settle this in a civil way, but you need to understand that I did not understand your posts! You also need to more to the point when making a post! [Report message to a moderator]

bergerac
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Sat, 22 March 2003 06:32

Quote:

If you can get a ct20b twin entry turbo and look at a wheel change and extrusion honing for manifold turbo housing and intake .for around $2500 the total package WILL (and has) made 320 H.p++++ to all fours this is good for low 12 second 1/4 mile (or quicker) .You will still need a good clutch

Not likely on the stock injectors and fuel system. 320hp at the flywheel would be pushing it. With a 30% drivetrain loss 320hp at the wheels would be over 450hp at the flywheel, the ST205 has 239hp at the flywheel stock, thats an amazing a slightly modified stock turbo that adds over 200hp!

Quote:

shane
the turbocharger i am talking about IS a stock turbo for an ST205 WRC 3sgte .they are just a much more efficient turbo .EVEN the factory dump pipe can BARELY be improved on

So your saying having the cat right on the turbo outlet is a design you wouldn't change? Its strange that when I replaced my dump pipe with a 3inch one I gained .1bar boost in the mid range and the turbo spools up much faster. That was just changing the dump pipe, the rest of my exhaust is still stock.

Quote:

165 or 205 the are basically the same engine different turbo different ecu the best way for him to improve that power figure would be to change to the ct 20b

Have you even looked at either of these engines? The ST205 has a different intake manifold, head, injectors, intercooler and throttle body just to name a few differences. As a matter of fact the CT20B wouldn't even go on a ST165 engine without a modified or custom manifold.

Quote:

As far as using that turbo in high h.p .the ST205 WRC is the wrc spec .in other words that is the turbo designed for toyotas wrc gt4

The ST205 WRC turbo is exactly the same and a normal ST205 turbo. You must be very naive if you think Toyota used a CT20B on their Group A car, maybe in a Group N car but they made much less power. The ST205 never ran in WRC mainly because the class didn't even exist at that time.

Maybe you should have a look at a real ST205 before you go around spreading your 'expertise'.

[Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
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Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Sat, 22 March 2003 13:22

actually your right about two things i should perhaps have written group N assumed (god forbid) that the group A badge on the centre console meant exactly that( being very technical).

but toyota did develop st 205 for rally application as to when or how it was used in competetion(or if at all) i do not claim to know

but based on the fact that i dont actually know or care i accept you are probaly correct.

i was merley trying to pont out the BREEDING behind this model

second of all i am aware of a person that HAS done this conversion onto an st185 i cant swear by it but im sure he used a factory manifold .again i assumed the 165 was the same as 185

happy to put shit on people when they are wrong equally happy to admit that i am wrong as well

BUT CAN YOU?????????????

seems to me you just wanted to join the "ya couldnt POSSIBLY get that much power bandwagon"

NOW TO THE STUFF THAT I HAVE ALREADY DONE AND KNOW WORKS

as far as the dump pipe mod ..well that was easy remove the cat and fit a high flow after market further down the system .this gave a similar result to that of which you have already described . in fact this car made 220 h.p @ whels at 16 psi and this was noted in h.p comp at the toyota nationals .

having said that a custom dump pipe IS in the making .BUT gains are only expected to be minor .the main reason for changing the design is i feel the new design will remove more underbonnet heat as we are also having it ceramic coated .as far as increasing flow that is highly unlikley

using the factory 440 cc injectors and the standard manifold at 294 rwhp duty cycle was 90 %

so we decide to extrude hone the intake manifold .

the much smoother manifold allowed for less manifold wall quenching and faster air fuel flow .

cylinder n.o 3 was some 30% more restrictive than all others

at 320 H.p duty cycle was reduced to 87 %.

fuel rail pressure has since been increased but as i did not personally do the tune im not exaxtly sure of the current duty cycle.however in the tuners words .it should be safe for another 20 h.p and thats about all

as far as the turbo mods go the only component that was SLIGHTLY modified was the ceramic wheel it was replaced with a steel item of SIMILAR spec

the real gains are from the extrusion honing the exhaust housing was so heavily ported that its now 30% larger than the original.the exhaust manifold was also ported and ceramic coated .The reason the turbo is so effecient is the gains from porting the compressor housing and intake manifold

Quote:

The ST205 WRC turbo is exactly the same and a normal ST205 turbo.

Quote:

Maybe you should have a look at a real ST205 before you go around spreading your 'expertise'

perhaps you should take your own advice

the vehicle in question ...NOTE MY CRESSIDA IN FRONT

look carefully under the gt4 badge it says GROUP A RALLYE

it also has an id plate on the console with a build no ## of i think 77 in AUST

http://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad/Picture_0363.jpg

Quote:

the ST205 has 239hp at the flywheel stock,

again quoting the above link to alltrac an st205 WRC has 255h.p (st205 has 242) so thats about 173 h.p @ wheels .well we actaully got a figure of 181 so we are close to the claimed mark

we added 3 inch exhaust and cat mod ,cold air induction and 16 psi boost power figure rose to 225 h.p @ wheels as i said this has been varified

so the actual gain from turbo mods has only been 100 h.p @ wheels .But this is still a substantial gain considering the cost

i still have a few pics on the role of film with the before and after pics of the turbo .so when i finish it i'll get it developed and show the results

for those of you that are actualy interested in this mod

Finally if there is any doubt what so ever this vehicle IS competing in 1/8th mile drag racing at THE toyota nationals this year .

and previously won the go-to-whoa by a substantial amount

i have a 4.5 sec 0-100 car and i am SCARED ... VERY scared of this vehicle

you are more than welcome to take it on

it WILL have fitted at the time a dyno plus for 0-100 and 1/8 th mile and h.p readings

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twinturbo1uz
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melbourne
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March 2003

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Sun, 23 March 2003 08:36

holy shit that power porting works awesome .on my old twin ct26 turbos .power porting the exhaust housings made 200 h.p at treads more . believe this shit!!!! i have seen first hand the results of this process and celicamad would power port his radiator hoses given the chance you really know your turbos man THANX AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP WITHOUT YOU I WOULD NEVER HAVE CRACKED INTO THE 8 SECOND BARRIER [Report message to a moderator]

bergerac
Regular

Location:
Perth
Registered:
February 2003

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Tue, 25 March 2003 09:13

Quote:

Did you even read what I wrote?

Quote:

seems to me you just wanted to join the "ya couldnt POSSIBLY get that much power bandwagon"

If you could possibly make that much power I would happily pay you to work on my car, my problem is you make alot of claims that aren't possible or are incorrect and then abuse people for pointing it out. Show me some real proof and I wont bother you, actually I'd be quite impressed.

Quote:

using the factory 440 cc injectors and the standard manifold at 294 rwhp duty cycle was 90 % so we decide to extrude hone the intake manifold . the much smoother manifold allowed for less manifold wall quenching and faster air fuel flow . cylinder n.o 3 was some 30% more restrictive than all others at 320 H.p duty cycle was reduced to 87 %.

For a start ST205's have 540cc injectors stock. By getting more air in the cylinder you would need to add more fuel not less. How is it possible to the duty cycle to go down if you using more fuel?

Quote:

as far as the turbo mods go the only component that was SLIGHTLY modified was the ceramic wheel it was replaced with a steel item of SIMILAR spec

Only Japanese ST205's have ceramic compressor wheels, all of the cars exported to other countries (including Australia) have steel wheels.
http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/Turbo%20photos.htm

Quote:

perhaps you should check the link below

this clearly states quite a big differnce including the turbo .and the fact that the wrc IS A full second faster 0-100 IN STANDARD FORM

http://www.alltrac.net/specs/comparison.htm

should i mention the anti-lag(standard in wrc) or the injector sprays also standard

Well that page is obviously wrong since there has never been a 3S-GTE engine with a CT12A turbo on it. The power figures are correct though. All Jap spec ST205's had 255hp, UK spec had 242hp and Australian delivered cars came with 239hp(178kw)
http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/pics/aug94h.jpg. If you can show me a stock Australian delivered car that can do 0-100 in 5.45sec then I will admit defeat.

Quote:

it also has an id plate on the console with a build no ## of i think 77 in AUST

Mines #22 thanks. Would you like to start throwing VIN numbers around too? Doesn't prove you've actually been under the bonnet of one of these. From what you've said it certainly doesn't sound like it.

Quote:

Funny, in your earlier post you claimed the turbo was the only mod? Got a slip from an actual dyno?

[Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
Forums Junkie

Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Tue, 25 March 2003 10:19

whoops typo they are 540 cc injectors .

well obviously

ill send you the ceramic wheel from the turbo .obviuosly you have never pulled one apart .send me a P.O box or something

http://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad/dave%200-100.JPG

stock gt4(ST205 wrc) but with 3 inch exhaust ..the owner LOVES his car and wasnt game to REALLY launch it (didint want to break anything).so a few tenths quicker would be easy the car could easily handle another 2000 rpm on the launch

Quote:

Funny, in your earlier post you claimed the turbo was the only mod? Got a slip from an actual dyno?

yeah there are 15 4 wheel drive dynos in newcastle ...ooops i mean NONE .ask about 30 or 40 people on this forum my dyno plus has proven to get EXACTLY the same figures as the toymods dyno

a dyno is far easier to give a wank figure on than a dyno plus

the following quote was my first post so i dont know where you got that shit from about the turbo being the only mod

Quote:

By getting more air in the cylinder you would need to add more fuel not less. How is it possible to the duty cycle to go down if you using more fuel?

This proves that you dont even know what extrusion honing EVEN IS.you are not effectivley adding MORE air the same amount of air has already passed through the throttle body .

you are Evening cylinder flow .the ecu will provide the same amount of fuel to each cylinder required to .complete the combustion cycle on the highest flowing cylinder

when you have EXACTLY equal runner flow .AND increasing overall flow to all runners .you can use the same amount of fuel to make more power .so if you use less fuel you will make the same power

So if 1 runner flows 28% less air than another then that cylinder WILL run ritch.so you are effectivly wasting fuel to that cylinder.(have you noticed how rich yours runs factory)

in any car simlpy by leaning out the mixtures you will increase power and decrease duty cycle .

do you know what manifold quenching is .and how more fuel can reach each cylinder in an unburnt state

if you dont undestand this basic shit then talk to the hand boy

ill send you a copy of the 1/4 mile time you can calculate h.p from the terminal speed with good accuracy that will satisfy you

Just because i dont know every gt4 ever built doesnt mean i dont know more abut engines than YOU have ever dreamt

if i where you id do some homework and find out WHAT i HAVE actually done before you embarras yourself any further

seems you just looking to appear as if you know heaps

gee im impressed

oh yeah and as far as helping you get similar results

BITE ME!!!!! i dont need to prove a thing to you little boy

[Report message to a moderator]

[mikey]
Regular

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Tue, 25 March 2003 12:20

Hmm..... Extrusion honing is a process of forcing an abrasive substance through an orifice and opening it out, smoothing it internally in the process, this increases internal diameter and removes any possible turbulence causing casting flaws...yes it can improve air flow by improving induction efficiency. A CT20 is an utter piece of crap...I dont know why you would bother, sure it was great for rally, only because its response was reasonable and with the steel wheel they could push 1.5bar odd of boost through it, heat controlled by the intercooler and water injection. They designed it around response and powerband, these are useless for top end as the exhaust housing is simply too restrictive. The problem with any CT2x is the wastegates are too small to cope with bypassing air around the turbine at high airflow levels (upwards of 35-40cfm) and cause boost spikes/surge, etc, and they restrict power. If you're going to waste that much money, just buy a good second hand turbo, make an adaptor for the manifold, new dump pipe, ECU (which you can do for a reasonable amount, Apexi Power FC if you own an ST205), and injectors should be fine, larger fuel pump cause the standard ST205 pump won't cope. Oh by the way, the only real similarity between the ST165 and ST205 engine is the fact it bares the 3SGTE code, bar nothing else. Even the 165 and 185 engines are vastly different, the 185 was a total makeover of the piece of crap they used in teh ST165 from 86-89 in the WRC, it had a world of problems as why revised it, and the ST205 is that of the ST185 which was good, but they found it still had its flaws so they improved on it again. The ST205 is almost the ultimate evolution of the 3SGTE. Manifold wall quenching is when due to an interruption in the airstream the tumbling fuel mixture is disturbed and coats the manifold wall, usually in cooler conditions though as a hot manifold will cause fuel vaporisation...pretty basic, so to compensate for this you have to increase the injector pulse time in ms... The idea of evening out air flow per runner is very good though, and will lessen the chances of leaning out or hydraulic'ing a certain cylinder under massive combustion pressures......but also fixing the piece of shit standard fuel rail can solve this problem, as it basically causes a pressure drop from number 1 to number 4 cylinders.... An increase in volumetric efficiency means for a larger amount of air you can use the same fuel as you would for a lesser amount under conditions of lower volumetric efficiency.... Celicamad grow up and respond like the adult I am sure you are, use properly formed paragraphs and correct punctuation, etc. You are making yourself look like another village idiot. You're an intelligent bloke, so act like one. Regards, Michael. [Report message to a moderator]

Cool1
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods
Banned User

Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Tue, 25 March 2003 12:29

Now at least I can understand that post! [Report message to a moderator]

GEE120
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Tue, 25 March 2003 23:50

celicamad wrote on Sun, 23 March 2003 00:22

but toyota did develop st 205 for rally application as to when or how it was used in competetion(or if at all) i do not claim to know

but based on the fact that i dont actually know or care i accept you are probaly correct.

Quote:

The ST205 WRC turbo is exactly the same and a normal ST205 turbo.

i asssume you meant to say the same as a normal st205 turbo
(NOT PICKING ON YOUR TYPO MY TYPING SUCKS)

perhaps you should check the link below

this clearly states quite a big differnce including the turbo .and the fact that the wrc IS A full second faster 0-100 IN STANDARD FORM

http://www.alltrac.net/specs/comparison.htm

should i mention the anti-lag(standard in wrc) or the injector sprays also standard

Finally if there is any doubt what so ever this vehicle IS competing in 1/8th mile drag racing at THE toyota nationals this year .

and previously won the go-to-whoa by a substantial amount

i have a 4.5 sec 0-100 car and i am SCARED ... VERY scared of this vehicle

you are more than welcome to take it on

Celicamad,
You are right in some areas but wrong or mislead in others. Im not say the figures you are quoting are not achievable.

One quick quesyion i have for you though is, why in gods name would you spend $2500 on the stock turbo to get 500Hp (i'm assuming its running 20-25PSI to make the 500Hp) when for the same money you could get a bigger turbo that would work more efficiently ie:a lot less heat.

Now getting on to the parts ive quoted you on:

Toyota did devlope a car for rally this was the ST205WRC the turbine wheel in this application was steel and not ceramic.
Only the Jap Spec ST205 had ceramic.
The ST205 WRC was raced in rally but only for 3/4 of 1 season because they were caught cheating by removing the 35mm restrictor.
IMHO i think this is why the ST205 did not become a cult car like the WRX it didnt get the right exposure in its time, although the price point is another reason.

The specs you listed from alltrac.net are incorrect. They need to be swapped arround. The WRC is 242Hp and the Jap is 255Hp. The reason for the difference in HP is the more aggresively tuned ECU in the Jap model, its tuned for 100 Octane.

The antilag you mention is standard on the WRC but it does not work, its blocked and just looks pretty, It can be made to work but the stock ECU does not control it so youll need an EMS.
The injector sprayers you mentioned are little jets that spray the intercooler radiator with water to help cool it better. Ive tried using these and they made shit all of a difference unless your using the antilag it doesnt get hot enough for the jet spray to have any real benefit.

On your Finally point. I know my ST205 WRC is not making the same power as this one but i would love to go up against it at the Nationals, just to see how we go. Hmmmm 2x ST250 WRC running down the 1/8 mile together.

One more quick question. I the car your talking about David's or somebody else?

[Report message to a moderator]

Guest

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 26 March 2003 00:23

OK Enough ! It will all be sorted out at the NATS ~ whos got what and what works. It will be plain to see - can someone please vid everything. Unfortunately i wont be there. Matt [Report message to a moderator]

benmeyer
Regular

Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 26 March 2003 02:14

I'm taking along my DV camera and filming what i can. I'm currently talking to phil eacott about the possibility of publishing the video that is taken. [Report message to a moderator]

[mikey]
Regular

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 26 March 2003 04:31

Actually Toyota did run the restrictors, but due to the way that the intake and restrictor was designed, it allowed more air flow into the turbo than the restrictors should have allowed. So they called it cheating and banned the Celica from the WRC. By the time it was allowed back, the rules stated a homologation production of min 2500 wasnt required, and only (i think) 50 or 100 had to be built to satisfy their requirements. [Report message to a moderator]

GEE120
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 26 March 2003 04:41

Thanks Mikey, I stand corrected. I was close though. hehe [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
Forums Junkie

Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 26 March 2003 07:32

if the figures on alltrck are wrong then so be it as i said i DO NOT claim to now all about gt4's the engine at hand was disassembled components where assesed however aftermarket turbos where originally considered . but at $2800 for a gt series turbo was out of the budget the actual turbo itself has only had $1500 spent on it .the other mods would have been needed even with a gt series 550 h.p turbo . 320 rwhp @17 psi was achieved on an st185 using the EXACT same turbo (built buy the same guy) personally if it where my car id be looking at the gt roller . particularly if the factory exhaust manifold can be used i was given a car and a budget and asked to organise someone to do the work .considering the budget the results at the nats willl speak for themselves as far as the anti-lag goes yes i am aware it is disconnected but the system is in place thesre are articles on the net about how to get it to work(which i havnt read) .BUT i would NEVER consider using anti-lag it is WAY too hard on turbos and yes i accept that with a water to air system very little is to be gained .except where heat soak is concerned .having set up my own system before i found that even with a large volume of water if the car was driven hard on a hot day and allowed to sit .intake temps could be brought down MUCH quicker however no power gain was achieved( just a consideration for yourself) as matt said lets sort it out on the drag strip we will soon find out does anyone have a formula for calculating h.p from terminal speed on 1/8th mile ??? if not we can put the dyno plus in a stock car and then the 205 just for point of interest mikey i havnt seen your entry form yet are you planning on entering ?? if so can you please get your form off ASAP entry's close on FRIDAY [Updated on: Wed, 26 March 2003 07:42] [Report message to a moderator]

[mikey]
Regular

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 26 March 2003 11:40

Celicamad, Unfortunately not this year, I still don't have a license (its suspended until 1st may), and my car won't be finished in time..just gotta get a computer and do the piping for the turbo and such...parts won't arrive till late april from Japan (some gaskets and oil line fittings), so I can't really do a great deal till then... I might still come along if I don't have any family commitments I'll know pretty soon. Cheers Michael [Report message to a moderator]

Nark
Forums Junkie

Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Wed, 26 March 2003 22:42

Hey Mikey. Since you're such a good friend of mine, I'll volunteer to drive your car... Only because you're such a good friend though...... [Report message to a moderator]

Lucid
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Thu, 27 March 2003 07:54

I don't reckon you could handle the power Max! [Report message to a moderator]

[mikey]
Regular

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Thu, 27 March 2003 09:23

Well considering my car wont run properly past 3500rpm at the moment, its no point even thinking about it...LOL maybe next year eh =] Michael [Report message to a moderator]

celicamad
Forums Junkie

Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Thu, 27 March 2003 10:56

oh well hope to see you there anyway .perhaps i can organise a run in this car if you are keen [Report message to a moderator]

[mikey]
Regular

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Thu, 27 March 2003 11:31

CM, That sounds excellent, if I can make it I'll look forward to it. Cheers! Michael [Report message to a moderator]

Nark
Forums Junkie

Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Thu, 27 March 2003 22:59

Lucid wrote on Thu, 27 March 2003 18:54

I don't reckon you could handle the power Max! Razz

This coming from someone who drives a shopping trolley.... Riiiight.... Twisted Evil

[Report message to a moderator]

Lucid
Forums Junkie

I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary

Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE

Fri, 28 March 2003 01:19

Quote:

This coming from someone who drives a shopping trolley.... Riiiight.... Twisted Evil

No... This coming from someone who has already driven Mikey's "Shopping trolley" Cool

[Report message to a moderator]

Nark
Forums Junkie

Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Good new turbo to replace CT26 on 3SGTE	Fri, 28 March 2003 01:29

Bastard... [Report message to a moderator]

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