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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Mon, 17 March 2003 10:26
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Ok, I understand that a properly shrouded clutch fan is probably just as good as a thermo system when it comes to cooling, and removing it removes some load from the engine. Would swapping to thermos be worth the improvement? I don't have a shroud for my clutch fan atm, and I haven't checked yet if the 1GEU fan is in the same spot as the 1GGTE one anyway.
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Mon, 17 March 2003 10:40
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Tough question franky........your going to get very mixed answeres on this 1.......My opinion (and experience)is it`s hard to beat a factory clutch fan and shroud set up...
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Mon, 17 March 2003 10:54
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ditto the comments by suprav8
but there are advantages and disadvantages of both, and youll have to balance out your desires/requirements and available options.
imho-
factory clutch fan and shroud good for 'normal' driving. provides a good compromise for through-flow at higher speeds, and effective cooling for longer stationary periods etc...
factory clutch fan WITHOUT shroud is very good at cooling at high speeds (no shroud to restrict through-flow) but does rob a little power from the engine at such speeds (unless the clutch is completely cactus). without shroud in traffic is a little worse, but probably still manageable if the cooling system is in good nick.
good quality thermos with modern blade design allow decent through-flow at high speeds, and they will be 'off' at these temps too, so no load through the alternator. in traffic, they add load, and dont pull as much air, so engine will get hotter, but still manageable, again, as long as cooling system is in good order (and youve got a decent sized fan or 2).
so, your choice, do you drive fast a lot of the time, want the few extra horses released from the engine, and get suck in traffic only occasionally? or is fast driving only on occasions, and good cooling required in stationary traffic for decent periods?
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Mon, 17 March 2003 13:54
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Basically I'm going to try and make sure the cooling system is AOK. Getting it all flushed out before the new engine goes in.
I'm probably one of the drivers who at average speeds drives faster than the flow of traffic, with occasional hammering of the car. I don't get stuck in traffic all that often and I try to avoid peak hour if at all possible.
I'm thinking I may see how much I can get some thermos for, perhaps finding some in a dual setup from a factory situation. Does anyone have any recommendations or should I go straight to aftermarket...ie. Davies Craig or something?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Mon, 17 March 2003 21:42
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Depending on your radiator size, you may like to look at the twin-thermo setup from a Falcon (EF), such as the one I used in mine 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Mon, 17 March 2003 23:04
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what are the basic dimensions of that twin setup mr biased??
cheers
ed
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Tue, 18 March 2003 01:39
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Ditto... that looks like a nice setup for my Supra, if it will fit!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Tue, 18 March 2003 02:37
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Hmmm...I'll have to measure it up at some point 
As a guide, it is pictured there hanging off my stock MX83 radiator, exactly as it was eventually mounted, and fits almost exactly square-on. (Not bad for something I looked at in a Wrecker's yard and thought "Yeah, it should go close..." 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Tue, 18 March 2003 03:02
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| biased99 wrote on Tue, 18 March 2003 12:37 |
Hmmm...I'll have to measure it up at some point
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That would be great. 
BTW how much did it cost, if you don't mind me asking?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Tue, 18 March 2003 03:44
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Hmmm...too much!
Hmmmmmmm....Yes, I do bloody mind!
Seriously though, I paid $165 for the setup...Basically it was "take it or leave it". I needed it, so I took it.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Tue, 18 March 2003 05:26
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That's actually not bad, when you look at the cost of aftermarket fans which are probably inferior quality.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 02:55
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biased,
Did you get a chance to measure that up?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 03:22
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Errr..No
I'll definitely do it tonight!
(thanks for reminding me!)
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 04:02
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I've tried thermo fans before and had major issues with them especially driving at speeds over 70km/h. They just don't flow enough cfm's too cool it.
I've tried the big daddy 16inch and it didn't kewl the thing down. Went back to the clutch fan and it worked instantly.
Looking at those two big thermo's it might work!
I think the mx83 radiator is the same size radiator as the ma61 too.
The other thing to worry about is the voltage drop. Thermos can drop a system voltage from 14.1v down to 12.5v very easily.
Mine was dropping to 13.1v when it kicked in, now good for system voltages to coil packs, ecu for processor and therefor injector timing, not to mention ignition timing being skewed out of alignment.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 04:39
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I'm probably lucky in that (voltage) respect, in that the engine came from a UZZ31 Soarer - a car known for BIG electrical consumption, owing to the vast array of electric motors and ECUs these things run...thus I'd think that the alternator would be more than up to the task of keeping relatively constant voltages.
AFAIK, the fans have never come on at 70KP/H, but only when stopped for a period of time. (On the one hand "negating" the cooling question; on the other "asking" the voltage question )
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 07:44
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O.K, here it goes...
Fan assembly measurements are as follows:
Height: (Measured from bottom of cowling to top), 420-450mm*
Width: (Measured across the top of the cowling - not taking into account the "lip" with the warnings etc, as this can cut to suit if required - allow approx. 15mm for this), 720mm**
Breadth: (Measured from cowling "face" at radiator side to back of fans facing engine), 70-75mm***
* Measurements are approximate, owing to the fact that assembly is installed in vehicle and the space is quite tight...They should, however, be close enough to form a reasonably eduacated guess on the "will it, or wont it" front...
** (See *)
*** (See **)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 08:24
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norbie if it will fit behind your radiator, get an AU falcon setup...the ef is about 12" fans, which i doubt will cool a 2jz properly. The AU has about twin 16" which will make it run cool as a cucumber.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 09:08
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I just measured my MA61 radiator, and the core is approx 670x390mm. The width doesn't worry me much since there's plenty of room for it to overlap on one side, but the height is a problem - it looks like the radiator hoses will be in the way. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 12:21
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hmm you could always make brackets for the fans? Thats what i did...For my 5me i had a 14" and 10" hooked up to ignition and a 12" one to replace the a/c fan....i was looking at my rad the other day and im going to put a thicker core in it, i think its a bit thin for either a turbo, or v8.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Wed, 26 March 2003 18:04
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if u non turbo guys are having any trouble with over heating, get your radiator cleaned out.
i now have a brand new radiator and 1 12" davies craig thermo, and i have sat in traffic/drive thru's with aircon on in 40+ degree days with no movement of temp guage (aircon has no thermo either).
we sat the car on 6500rpm for a few mins down freeway, temp was perfect.
when setting the thermo up, i had the car idling for 20mins (thermo not going) before i decided that the temperature wasnt going to rise above normal point.
Peewee
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Thu, 27 March 2003 08:33
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it may not be overheating, but rather in your case running hotter...may stay the same on the temp gauge, but actually be running hotter (noticeable on a supra with electronics) which can lead to hg problems...put more than enough on them i reccomend...cant stress that enough.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Sat, 29 March 2003 07:58
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Whilst on the topic of thermo fans....with the recent departure of my clutch fan to Queensland (that's you, Norbie), I need a low profile thermo fan for the 2JZGE in the Mk2. I have about 85mm to play with. The car won't be spending very much time in traffic (I hope almost none actually!).
Cheers Dave.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Sun, 30 March 2003 03:32
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85mm depth? no problems man, just get a flat bodied fan from a wreckers..most of them arent much more than 60-65mm deep. In my opinion they dont work as well as the deep bodied fans, but decent cooling is a nessecity! And thermos do the trick in traffic!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Clutch Fan vs Thermos
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Sun, 30 March 2003 13:10
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| gianttomato wrote on Sat, 29 March 2003 17:58 |
Whilst on the topic of thermo fans....with the recent departure of my clutch fan to Queensland (that's you, Norbie),
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w000t!!! Thanks man. Just in time too, I got the cooling system back together this afternoon, and I'm ready to pressure test it by letting it warm up in the driveway.
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I need a low profile thermo fan for the 2JZGE in the Mk2. I have about 85mm to play with. The car won't be spending very much time in traffic (I hope almost none actually!).
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Are you looking to buy new or second-hand? If the former I'd recommend talking to a good radiator shop; they know all about this stuff. Chances are they'll be able to supply you with exactly what you need.
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