Author | Topic |
Club President I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Toymods member I supported Toymods
Location: Rydalmere, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 28 March 2003 02:03
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Should be there, never taken the RAV4 for a dyno run before - should I say I've never taken ANY car I've owned for a dyno run! Probably a futile effort (96kw stock figures, straight out of the manual ), but will be interesting to see what she can pull out on the day.
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Location: Madrid - Spain
Registered: August 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 28 March 2003 02:46
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Count me in. As this will be the second dyno run for my car, I will have to do some mods between now and then and show an improvement. That means that the diff conversion will have to be made too. How much did you say it costs??????
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Location: NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 28 March 2003 08:36
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Dyno day.......
3 months to fiddle......
oh bring that shit oooooonnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered: September 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 28 March 2003 08:47
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 28 March 2003 09:06
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i'll be there again, with another steady increase in power.
Hmmmm, GT30 me thinks. Now just to find the funds
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Location: Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered: September 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 28 March 2003 23:29
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my supercharged ta22 2tgeu will be there to turn the roller for the first dyno day attendance.
look for about 100 at the wheels
justin
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Location: Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered: September 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 28 March 2003 23:30
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i will bring the camera for some mad roller run pics
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Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sat, 29 March 2003 08:23
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I will be there, and so will my Supra Turbo Group A. Looking to give the supra a good thrashing and sqeeze every last KW out of her..GO the FREAKE Supra !!! This one is for the 7MGTE Boys !! Lets see what we can do.
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Location: cronulla
Registered: March 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 30 March 2003 06:13
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yeh my little chariot should be just finished be interesting to see how she goes
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Location: Sydney
Registered: January 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 30 March 2003 12:14
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Well fingers crossed I'll be owning a TA22 or MA61 by then, and also a member All going to the mid June deadline for a new car.......
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Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Mon, 31 March 2003 03:20
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I'll be there. Definately looking forward to it.
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Location: cronulla
Registered: March 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 01 April 2003 07:56
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hey pete i was next to you at the driveins in the white ta22
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Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 02 April 2003 06:23
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Ah yeah, nice car Welcome to the forums!
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Location: Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered: September 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 06 April 2003 10:51
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mouse man wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 17:56 | hey pete i was next to you at the driveins in the white ta22
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heya pete, were you at the drive in???
i was there, shame we did not meet!!
justin
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Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 06 April 2003 23:29
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Made a cammeo appearance in my mates charade. Parked up next to the white celica (kinda in front of Karl). Came in late.
Pity we didn't meet. Next time.
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Location: Parramatta
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 08 April 2003 01:34
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does any one know if that celica with the v8 TT motor will be there cause if so i anit even bothering.....
there is one thing i didnt like the way the dyno day is setup
u have 1.8 below and the u have 1.8 and above foreced induction for 1.8 and below and then 1.8 above forced as well...
i know u have added more seprate like superchared etc...
but what i find unfair is that a v8 or v6 can go in the same as a 4 cyl..... there is not much of a chance of wining aganst a v8 tt realisticly with out spending big bucks..... even so its just too hard.... i just find that there should be more catagories thats all sorry for having a windge but it may attract more competers i mean i know i have no chance of wining with that thing there.... 246kw at the treads thats pretty hard especally being a year ago im sure hes done more....
just a thought and again sorry for winging
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Toymods member I supported Toymods
Location: Rydalmere, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 08 April 2003 01:43
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It's not just about winning... it's about having a run on the dyno to see if you can improve your figures over the last time it turned the rollers. It's also about having a good day as well, and to pick up a trophy would be considered an added bonus (especially for me ).
I agree with your comments however, but I think there's enough categories, both in the primary AND secondary classes. It's just a matter of who's better on the day.
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Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 08 April 2003 01:56
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BigFella_73 wrote on Tue, 08 April 2003 11:43 | It's not just about winning..
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Damn right. I havn't won at all but I still go along. See the faces of the people and to sort out when someone says they have a more powerful car IF they really do or not.
Put your money where your mouth is kinda thing.
Plus the dyno is cheap and well run.
Toymods has never really been a competetive place, more to help out a fellow car enthusiast to get what he/she wants out of their car. Trophies are just a way to get people to strive for a bit more power.
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Location: Parramatta
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 08 April 2003 02:47
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hey guys dont get me wrong i was just tring to make a point i do go i havent competed before but i do go t watch as i know my figures on the dyno... and either way it would be great fun as it is i know.
as i said i was just making a comment on the catagories as i think there should be more i was just putting in perspective thats all.
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Club President I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 08 April 2003 23:26
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2REV UP,
Mate we do here what your saying and sure in an ideal situation there would be alot more trophys but we have our limitations.
The focus of the Dyno days isn't winning or getting a trophy, Its about the social interaction and getting some real solid vehicle comparrisons. It removes the bullshit and puts it all on a level playing field. It also gives our members a regular chance to really see the improvements they have made to their car between events
Because its got a social focus we try and keep the cost as low as we possibly can and that means we simply cannot afford to offer a huge range of trophies.
As for your comment about Jamies Twin Turbo V8, I'm not sure if he is coming up yet but either way its not an unbeatable figure. A well packaged 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE or even 1GGTE could topple the 245kw mark !
Sure for a 4 Cylinder like a 3S it is a big ask ( But still possible !) but there will always be an engine at the bottom of each category and thats something I can't do much about sorry !
Hope you understand the clubs limitations on this. And hey the more poeple that compete the more Trophies we can consider for the next one but either way we appreciate everyone who attends the day.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 01:51
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thetoyman75 wrote on Wed, 09 April 2003 09:26 | 2REV UP,
As for your comment about Jamies Twin Turbo V8, I'm not sure if he is coming up yet but either way its not an unbeatable figure. A well packaged 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE or even 1GGTE could topple the 245kw mark !
Sure for a 4 Cylinder like a 3S it is a big ask ( But still possible !) but there will always be an engine at the bottom of each category and thats something I can't do much about sorry !
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Rod & MR.2
You really under estimate the 3SGTE in a RWD application. Sure 245KW is i big ask of a 3S in a GT4 but not in an MR2.
The MR2 make 126Kw @ wheels in stock form,based on a Gen III.
A good 3" exhaust all the way through (30Kw)
Hi flowed turbo (30-40Kw)
better flowing filter and cold air ducting (5-10Kw)
and boost at 17 PSI (50Kw)
This should see you to around 241KW @ the wheels
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Toymods member I supported Toymods
Location: Rydalmere, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 02:01
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Here's a bit of a curly one - I've seen how my RAV4's back wheels turn while they're in the air (actually, on a hoist). They "trail" to the front wheels, whille the front wheels are turning at full-pace, the rear ones are only turning at about half to two-third's the front wheels speed. How would this work on a dyno?
If the RAV4 were to go on the dyno, because it's an AWD with a viscous centre differential, not a true 4WD, how would it go with all 4 wheels turning the rollers? Would the rear wheels give a different reading to the front's?
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 02:49
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I'm not sure how it measures it but the GT4 is similar in setup although there is more power to the rear.
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Toymods member I supported Toymods
Location: Rydalmere, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 02:58
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Not to worry, I think I got it sorted. The RAV4 has a Centre Diff Lock (or CDL) button on the dashboard, which is hardly ever used. Switch it on and all 4 wheels turn together at the same speed. Should be ok to use on the rollers.
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Location: Madrid - Spain
Registered: August 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 03:01
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It would depend on the torque split from the centre diff. As the GT4 was designed as a rally car, more power is sent to the rear wheels . The Rav4 is a road car, therefore in the aim of safe driving, more power is sent to the front wheels . They just don't get it. If you have the option, rear drive is much better. I wonder if you could easily reverse the torque split on the Rav4 centre diff
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Location: Parramatta
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 03:13
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hey guys i know its possable... not to brag im quite close to the figure as is (224kw rear wheel)but cant beat it and again i know its not all about wining but it would be great to be rewarded thats all...
and by the way i have to say thanx for the reply thetoyman its apprectated... im sure i will see u there.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 04:28
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Another 20KW wont be hard to get out of your car.
What mods have you done so far? and how much boost were you running to get that figure?
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Location: Cranebrook, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 09 April 2003 08:15
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Hey all, I will be there for sure. I enjoyed the last dyno day. I am also going to run the Echo. Hopefully will get a good figure. She's 65kw as stock (well thats wot the book says anyway)
and know that i have put an exhaust on it, it mite get over 70kw (i hope! )
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Thu, 10 April 2003 01:18
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Well i will be there. I'll do the world of 18R PROUD!
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Membership Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Thu, 10 April 2003 08:34
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I'll bring my wagon back bigger and better this time round.
I'm up and keen for a little competition from the toymods slut car (joe's Corona Mark II) to try and defend my title of TOP SINGLE CAM from dyno day 6.
Should be a great day evceryone please come and lets see these rollers turn baby turn.
Also I should be one of the lowest crown's there but lets see if clubagreenie brings the MARFIA crown. Then the'll be some real pimping cars around.
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Location: Parramatta
Registered: July 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Thu, 10 April 2003 22:37
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20psi - high flowed (ct26), exhaust, ems (tuned by ems themselfs), shit loads of headwork..., forged wistco pistions balanced shotpeened crank and rods, arp studs through out the whole motor, head studs main studs etc... more but i cant think....
i can up the boost more i suppose but the turbo is cutting to its limits there.... need a bigger turbo get the big power...
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 11 April 2003 00:40
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Mr.2,
If Joe (Boost) can make 180Kw @ all 4's in a GT4.
Stock ECU, 4" dump pipe, 3" exhaust, hi-flowed CT26, cold air feed,@1 Bar boost.
You should be able to make atleast 220KW @1.2 Bar on stock ECU.
Now with the mods youve done @20PSI, i would be expecting 250+KW. The only problem i can think of with your setup, without knowing enough about it is that the guys at EMS tuned it either really moderately for reliability or just dont know how to tune for max power.
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I supported Toymods
Registered: February 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 11 April 2003 02:34
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gee,
dont worry about MR.2... he just doesnt like loosing, hey brad! hehehe..
brad, your car is fast now.. all you have to do is learn how to drive..
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Location: Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered: September 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sat, 12 April 2003 00:47
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big changes happening in my garage, i have ditched the idea of the supercharged 2tgeu and have opted for the 3t crank,full balanced, ported and polished head, custom headers, and 2 litre injectors with the microtech digi1.
so i shall see yall there.
justin
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Club Member
Location: Sydney, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sat, 12 April 2003 03:12
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juzzo84 wrote on Sat, 12 April 2003 10:47 | big changes happening in my garage, i have ditched the idea of the supercharged 2tgeu and have opted for the 3t crank,full balanced, ported and polished head, custom headers, and 2 litre injectors with the microtech digi1.
so i shall see yall there.
justin
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Will that be ready for the Nats???
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Location: Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered: September 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sat, 12 April 2003 23:42
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nah benny, she wont be running for the nats, im going in tristans car, unless i can roll in the rolla with you???
justin
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Club Member
Location: Sydney, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 13 April 2003 02:53
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Juzzo, you're welcome to cruise with me man... I don't got a passenger...
How big is that tent that you're bringing though... Cause everything will have to fit on the back seat...
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Location: Colac, Victoria
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 13 April 2003 05:43
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TheStitt Wrote :
I'll bring my wagon back bigger and better this time round.
I'm up and keen for a little competition from the toymods slut car (joe's Corona Mark II) to try and defend my title of TOP SINGLE CAM from dyno day 6.
is there a top single cam totle or just a joke title - if so - i know of a certain celica that would take that challenge up - If jeremy brings my old pig along .. The old 2tb has been cammed - and tuned - though i dont know as yet what figures its making - id be keen to see the old girl on the rollers ..
At this stage im also going to try to make it to Dyno day - i have a few extra days upo my sleeve holidays wise so i might bring the Gt4 along for a fun roll - it wont be taking any titles home for sure if Steve bignall, gee120 , or danny get their Gt4's there ! but it would be interesting to see what in fact the exhaust boost controller and other little stuff can do to increase an otherwise stock Gt4's figures
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I supported Toymods Toymods Special Events Coordinator
Location: Sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 22 April 2003 09:53
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don't worry stuart, my GT4 isn't too far from stock either... i'll be at the bottom end of the scale for sure, but it would be interesting to see how the GT4's compare!?
If all's going well, I should have a cold air filter in by then ... might help the old girl along a bit??
hope to see you (and the GT4) there........
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Location: Colac, Victoria
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 23 April 2003 07:07
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If i can get the time off ( ie 4 days straight ) ill be there !
might even sign my life away as a toymods member too - for the cheap snags of course
So bring some damn membership forms guys
DavGT4 - good exhaust and good airfilter/induction seems to work wonders as the basis of power - ups on GT4's
Mine feels so much more pokey than a friends Stock Group A - but then again - i do have a boost controller which does help the surge build
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 23 April 2003 13:33
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Dave & Stu,
If you want some good reading on what mods work well on your GT4's, get this months issue of ZOOM and go to page 60. Not only will you find my car there but Mikey wrote a great article on proven methods for mods that work well.
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Location: Colac, Victoria
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Thu, 24 April 2003 11:56
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I'll have to get it then !
i think the next " power" mod ill be looking at is some sort of better air filter / cold induction setup - those dont get me in trouble !
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I supported Toymods Toymods Special Events Coordinator
Location: Sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 25 April 2003 03:37
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I'll be heading off to the newsagent then!!
Stu... (not that I know a lot) but I've found that HKS have an air filter set up built to fit the GT4 (pretty much 'bolt-om').
Still looking into it, but it seems to be a good option. I'm not looking to go crazy with the engine mods.
I'll also look at the boost controller after that... what did you get for yours..? PM me
Enough thread hijacking.... sorry!
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sat, 26 April 2003 05:02
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I'll be there for sure
and ditrto the membership forms... make sure you have some! (I have a lot of trouble making it to the board meets).
if I pump out more than 150rwkw I'll be happy (which should be effortless). just want to beat my friend's 180sx, which cost him over $22000 all up, to put out 145kw at the wheels.. or maybe it was 165... in htat case, I'll be needing 170rwkw
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Location: Colac, Victoria
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 27 April 2003 07:20
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Will there be a cruise held the day before by any chance ?
At this stage i have that weekend off so alls looking good - but would love to do dyno day and a cruise - make for a great weekend !
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Location: Germany
Registered: April 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Sun, 27 April 2003 11:38
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Classique71 wrote on Sun, 27 April 2003 17:20 | Will there be a cruise held the day before by any chance ?
At this stage i have that weekend off so alls looking good - but would love to do dyno day and a cruise - make for a great weekend !
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Yah, if I'm not working, I would like a cruise as well.
Having just bought my car, I'm not overly interested in putting the car over the rollers, but I am interested in seeing the other GT4's & looking at options/possibilities.
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Toymods Board Member
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Mon, 28 April 2003 06:07
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organising an offical cruise might be tricky seeing that the we will be busy organising the actual dyno day that weekend
but if somebody else wants to pick up the ball and organise one... ??
alot of people will be doing last minute adjustments of their cars as well... maybe afterward?
Mijbril - good to see you'll be there... saw another red gt4 in castle hill today and left some toymods info in his car... fingers crossed
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Location: Colac, Victoria
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Mon, 28 April 2003 08:43
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heh - my preperation will be wind the boost controller up and fill the tank full of optimax - and hope they have a decent fan for the intercooler to get nice and chilly
topmounts Suck for heatsoak ( frown )
Anyway - if a cruise cant be organised - id be happy for a meet up and greet session at somewhere nice - ie grab a coffee or something - and talk cars
Or we could go to rods place and turn spanners on his ta22 to get that bugger running for the day ( will we see it rod - or are we pipedreaming ! )
ill bring the duct tape for holding stuff together - someone else can bring the chewing gum !
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Location: NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 29 April 2003 08:31
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So, how many RWD 3SGTE cars are going???
Cos im ready to hand out ASS WHOOPING'S to all of them!
.....*ducks for cover*.....
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Location: Canterbury, Sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Tue, 29 April 2003 21:15
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Ok I am interested in coming along and strapping up my MA61 to the rollers. I have a question first though. I have an auto. The torque converter locks after 85kmh in 4th. Does the dyno let you go that fast or are the readings done in lower gears
please excuse ignorance.....errr will the TC locking then give a better or accurate reading of power? It should......
ta
ant
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Location: Madrid - Spain
Registered: August 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 30 April 2003 03:17
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ant
the dyno run is done in what ever gear gives you a 1:1 ratio. Not sure, but I think this will be 4th for your supra. Your car will probably make max power at about 130 km/h in this gear.
If your torque converter is locked after 85km/h I am guessing you mean it doesn't allow any slip. So power readings should be accurate.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 30 April 2003 03:21
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I dont know about how the toque trasfer/lock works on a auto, but i'm sure it wont be an issue for your Dyno run as most runs are finish at around 170-180Kph
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Location: Canterbury, Sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 30 April 2003 08:56
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yep no slip after 85kmh. Thanks for the info guys. Cool, count me in. How do I get a membership? Do I get a sticker? Just in case I get the NA over 1800 trophy
Ta
ant
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 30 April 2003 08:58
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hopefully they'll be taking membership there (hint hint boardies)
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Toymods Board Member
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 30 April 2003 12:19
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white83supra wrote on Wed, 30 April 2003 18:56 | Thanks for the info guys. Cool, count me in. How do I get a membership? Do I get a sticker? Just in case I get the NA over 1800 trophy
Ta
ant
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Yup Joe will be there set-up to take memberships... and yes you do get a sticker and a shirt.
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Location: Montrose, VIC
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Wed, 30 April 2003 13:44
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Guess I'll be forced to make the trip up for this again
With any luck I might crack something a bit fatter than my previous rather average effort - if I manage to get ahold of some *certain parts*.
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Toymods member I supported Toymods
Location: Rydalmere, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Thu, 01 May 2003 14:34
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So what if your gearbox doesn't have a gear with a 1:1 ratio? The RAV4 (I'm told) has gear ratios thus...
1st - 3.833:1
2nd - 1.913:1
3rd - 1.258:1
4th - 0.918:1
5th - 0.775:1
Final Drive - 4.933:1
Maximum power output - 96kW @ 5800 RPM (unknown if it's at the fly or wheels)
Maximum torque - 180Nm @ 4400 RPM
These figures are from Toyota, but I don't know if they're correct. Can someone verify these figures if possible? I'm more concerned with the gear ratios though.
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Location: Madrid - Spain
Registered: August 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Thu, 01 May 2003 21:39
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By the looks of things, you have changed your wheels, so your effective final gear ratio will have changed anyway.
They will run the car in 4th gear for the test. If you want to cheat a little, put some really small wheels and tyres on your car. This will reduce the effective gearing and you will see an increase in the power seen at the wheels.
Not that anyone in this club is that desparate for a few extra killawatts.
My car will propably have bigger wheels on it for the run
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Club President I supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: JULY 6th - Dyno Day 7 is out there !
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Fri, 02 May 2003 03:58
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Speaking of Wheels and tires.
Retreads are NOT allowed on the DYno. So if your driven wheels are retreads borrow some rubber for the day or organise to swap rims with someone before the day !
Stu,
My old girl is still along way from seing the dyno mate. its still missing some minor parts like gearbox, diff, that sort of thing ! Oh and there is only half an engine in the bay ! Still at least 12 months away best case scenario !
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