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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Tue, 18 June 2002 00:00
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do these struts have a different stub axle angle than other toyota struts. I was thinking of using them in my ke70, but from what ive seen and heard they cause to much positive camber.
has anyone used these on a E70/86 or early celica etc.
I wish there was some definitive strut info out there - i found this : http://arfabuck.orcon.net.nz/Struts.htm, does anyone have some more info like this?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Tue, 18 June 2002 00:42
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http://www.norbie.net
Go to the Automotive page and have a look at the Orange Eyesore, there is a thing about them there.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Tue, 18 June 2002 01:19
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Hope this helps...
Camber on the MA61 is 50' +/- 45'. Left-right error is 30'.
Steering axis inclination is 10 degrees and 10' +/- 45'. Left-right error is 30'.
Caster is 4 degrees and 10' +/- 45'. Left-right error is 30'.
Side slip is less than 30mm per m.
Wheel angle inside is 37 degrees and 35' +/- 2 degrees.
Wheel angle outside is 30 degrees and 45' (reference).
Cheers
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Tue, 18 June 2002 06:27
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where did you get that info? I checked the haynes RA60 today and it has slightly different info to what you got, I suppose they are slightly different in design.
Do you have any idea what the wheel angle measurement is?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Tue, 18 June 2002 09:40
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The data is off the service specification from the toyota factory repair manual for supra mk2. As for the wheel angle, I have no idea mate.
Cheers
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Wed, 19 June 2002 08:54
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I put ra60 struts into my ae86 without any problems, just hafta swap the spring cups over too. Use the lower arms from an ra60, causes no camber problems as it is the same length. RA60 steering arms are fine too, with ae86 tie rod ends.
My little problem is with camber, but its too much positive, and on one side only, I my car must be bent slightly somewhere - even with KMAC strut tops, can't quite get neg camber on one side, but still I don't think you'll find thats got anything to do with the struts, as the lower arms are the same length. Good luck 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Wed, 19 June 2002 09:35
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The lower control arm length is only part of the story. The RA6x struts have a different kingpin angle to earlier Celica/Corolla struts, hence the camber problems. I put MA61 struts in my RA23 Celica and wound up with a few degrees of positive camber, and I know it's the same story with a TE72 T18. I expect an AE86 is much the same given the similarity of its chassis to older rollas and Celicas.
To get around this problem you can have the struts bent to compensate or use longer lower control arms. The latter works quite well but the downside is a noticeably wider front track!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Wed, 19 June 2002 12:25
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i've got the same problem with corona struts in my TE72, so i fitted offset camber bolts to the lower suspension arms where they bolt to the engine crossmember, but as norbie said, you end up with a wider front track, so now my 7" wide rims scrub the guards on big bumps or hard corners.
Phil
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Wed, 19 June 2002 12:29
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what model corona struts did you use.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Wed, 19 June 2002 13:00
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RT132 i think?? but with machined peugeot ventilated discs.
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Wed, 19 June 2002 13:19
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just thought some might like this info when considering a strut swap and were going to use longer control arms to compensate. I found this info on a peugot site :
"One thing that should be kept in mind about using long front lower control arms, is it increases the "king pin inclination" (KPI) which has the unfortunate effect of cancelling out the advantages negative camber gain induced by the caster as you turn the wheel (the 504 doesn't actually have King pins but the term King Pin Inclination is still used). I didn't fully appreciate this consequence until a recent talk I had with Carroll Smith (one of the head guys who worked on the suspension development of the Ford GT40) at the recent Formula SAE competition at the Ford proving grounds north of Geelong. I had inadvertently designed too much king pin inclination (7 degrees)into our 600cc Yamaha powered racing car which nullified most of the castor induced negative camber gain. One of the other racing cars (from North Carolina) had 9 degrees of King pin inclination and almost no castor - the effect was that as the wheels turned they took on a really scary degree of positive camber. Lesson - castor is good, King pin inclination is bad."
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Thu, 20 June 2002 04:12
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I'm not sure too much weight should be put on those statements. When increaseing the control arm lengths on our MacFerson struts, the "King pin" angle is not changed that much. True, caster is good, but I don't think lenghtening the control arm is going to nulify things much, if at all. I think the author of these coments may have been talking about upper and lower wishbone suspension, and most of us use struts.
I'm still thinking...
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Fri, 28 June 2002 14:50
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Sorry to bring this thread back up.
If you shorteneds the ra60 strut and installed a coilover kit like on club4ag would you restore some of the camber or is the difference between the strusts the angle the stub axle joins the strut casing.
Is there a way to get 4pot brakes on an ae86 without changing the strut?
Brad
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Location:
Wroclaw, Poland, Central ...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: ra60/ma61 struts - camber
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Sun, 30 June 2002 20:05
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Howdy,
I put TA63 struts onto my T18, and left the stock lower arms.
Ended up with positive camber, but from what I found out later,
the original TA63 lower arms which I got with my front cut were
apparantly a little bit longer (1.5cm) which would cure the
camber problem. Too bad my mate cut them up and used them in his
full-suspension-downhill-no-pedal-bike ...
I also know that using adjustable strut tops will not solve the
camber problem.
I did my upgrade/swap a good few years back, and since then I have found out about guys who used early RX7 stuts, with RX7 koni inserts, TE72 stut tops, and series 5 or was it 6 disc rotors and 4 spot mazda calipers, without too much problems, and without having camber troubles.
Using only toyota parts for the brake upgrade seems to be the hardest option. Looks like when I move back to oz, and get myself a AE86, I will look into the mazda brake swap.
Laid'er
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