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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Mon, 31 March 2003 13:52
 
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aftermarket EFI for sure 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Mon, 31 March 2003 23:19
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I'd say stick with the EFI, but go for somthing like a Motec etc. That way you have much more control over the engine, and can get good feed back on what its doing.
Also, keep the VVT, its there for a reason! Dyno it with and with out, and see what difference it makes.
my 2 cents.
Craig.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 04:52
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In my honest opinon a very well setup efi system should always come out on top of the carbs. It will probably work out more expensive in the end but for tuning purposes i beleive more power and a better driveability could be obtained with efi. That said nothing beats the induction sound of twin sidedraft webbers on full throttle. To have so much work done to the motor i feel you would sell yourself short going with carbs.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 05:02
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ahh right
any technical reasoning as to why i would be selling myself short
i mean i was looking to get the toda ECU set for 5500
or
keihin flat-slide FCR 41mm carburetors for around $4000
i mean they are both about the same
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 05:11
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Basically from a tuning perspective. The ability to "plug n play" tune your car on a dyno or even "street" tuning i beleive far outweighs having to change the jetting in your carbs. Once you start using more exotic carbs you can expect to pay big bucks for someone to have the required tuning jets and then manage to tune the carbs spot on. Basically all im trying to say is sure a very well setup will come close to lineball with a an efi setup. But unfortunately these days very very good carb tuners are few and far between. But nowadays efi tuners are plentiful. With such features as tuning throttle position against air flow against rpm, i beleive you will achieve a much more satisfying (on driveablilty, fuel consumption and even power) result. But hey its your project and what you want you should get. My advice is ring a few tuning shops around the area and ask their opinion.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 13:04
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Hey there,
sorry to change the subject here. Just wondering -if you don't mind- how much that beast of an engine is costing you? Did you get a front cut or just the engine?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 22:16
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well lets add it up
front cut to start with is $4000 - $1500 to fit & tune
TRD Vibration-Suppressing Engine Mounts - $170
Blitz G-6 TOYOTA M/T speed limiter bypass - $300
New High Quality Denso Iridium Spark Plugs Platinum $40 ea ($160 total)
500cc SaRD Injectors - $300
Cusco Oil Catch Can - $200
Toda Racing metal head gasket - $400
Toda Racing ‘Billet’ Camshafts (Duration - 320 / Lift - 10.
• Intake - $750
• Exhaust - $800
Toda Racing stainless valve train kit (springs & valves)- $1500
Toda Racing Adjustable Cam pulleys (2 timing gears / disables VVT) - $600
Toda Racing 5 Valve High-Compression forged pistons - $1500
• AE111 (Bore - 82.00mm / Displacement - 1,627cc / Compression - 11.8 : 1)
TRD Oil Cap (Kanji) - $100
TRD Radiator cap - $90
Magnecor Full suppression 8mm blue silicon ignition leads - $150
Setrab oil cooler. (core = 7.5" x 13" x 25 rows) - $200
Aeroquip 10AN Socket less hose and fittings
Perma-Cool #181 Sandwich Adaptor (3/8" FPT ports and 3/4" -16 thread).
$12520 total give of take a $1000 for new/2nd hand bits
then theres $4000 for the ECU or carbs on top of that
its a lot but when nothing newer appeals to you, you have to make what you love competitive! 
the cars totalcost is $49490 fully worked
thats all parts impotred and everything redone, think of it as "the works". hopefully be able to win some races when its "all" done. hehehe
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 22:41
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| ae86drift wrote on Wed, 02 April 2003 15:02 |
i mean i was looking to get the toda ECU set for 5500
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That might be all well and good in Japan, where they are going to be folk that can tune it (if it's tunable....I don't know it so I won't comment). For that price you can almost get 2 fully loaded Motec M4 ECUs (advanced ignition and tuning, datalogging and wide band lambda).
Do you really need 500cc injectors? Are you really expecting to make 300+ hp from your NA 1.6 litre engine?
I'd definitely go for a quad throttle EFI setup rather than the carb setup. The carbs look exotic, but so are the parts and people to tune them. TODA make a lovely setup for the 4AG, with a CNC milled manifold.
Should be good to see. A friend runs a stock black top 20v in his KE25 - it always wins its class at the sprints.
Good luck!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 22:55
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okay so im convinced on the fuel injection vs carbs question.
now the next question follows.
what ECU do you deem to be the best for RACING in australia?
gianttomoato:
yes 500cc injectors are required for what im planning to produce, no its not over 300bhp. or even close to actually.  it IS an overhead but im being safe here.
i havent listed intake/exhaust section of the cars plan but the toda intake set is in there for the EFI option.
in response to your tuning staement. yes its tunable and TODA have 3 places in australia to tune their ecu's. 2 in NSW 1 in VIC.
this cars for racing not sprints or anyhting else so it needs to rev with 8-9 rpm all day. its really quality and reliability im after not straight up power.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Wed, 02 April 2003 23:05
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details of 'fully loaded'?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Tue, 08 April 2003 05:31
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i rang motec
they said they can do exactly what i want for well $2000 less than toda
and they also said that toda N1 ecu's are exteremly hard to tune
looks like the motec might be the go after all  thx GiantTomato
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
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Mon, 14 April 2003 01:57
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If you're going with motec (and it is the best choice) dont piss fart around with distributors & tuners.
Talk to Bill Croft from unitech/unicap. He is a motec distributor and one of, if not the best motec tuner globally. He's tuned drag cars, V8 Supercars, 2Ltr touring cars and most recently the Lotus Esprit race team as well as a heap of Targa cars and almost every motec equipped off roader in Aus.
Even if you dont trust my opinion at least get it tuned by the same people you buy it from. They are the ones with access to the latest updates and Info. Middleton Rally tune as well as distribute (i think).
Bills no is 0247 774 006. The downside of using Bill? He is freelance and very much in demand so you'll need to fit into his schedule if you want his expertise.
Rivmasta.
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AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?
Re: AE111 20V Carb's or Injection?