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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Tue, 01 April 2003 16:19
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I considered removing the guts from a 3S-GTE earlier on and sticking them into the 3S-FE donk with the type G head. Wasn't sure how this would work with the turbo mod I was going to be making with AVO's help in Melbourne.
Then I had a chat to the guys at ToySports. Does anyone from here know them?? Anyway, they suggested to me something I'd not thought of earlier - a complete front-cut from a Celica GT-Four. According to them, the gearbox will drop straight in (I think it's nearly identical to the stock RAV4 box, with extra beef on the gears). This solves the problem of trying to find a gearbox that wont fall to pieces on me with a quarter-mile drag. I was told that the 3S-GTE donk already has the forged pistons in it and the turbo is a CT-26 Garrett, running a similar setup (water/air intercooling, etc). Apparently the turbo runs at something like 12 PSI at stock.  I also want to get the lower bodykit designed, implemented and painted by these guys as well, as they have a fibreglass guy on-site. 
The best part about this is the cost - it's looking more likely that the engine/gearbox conversion could be done for a hell of a lot cheaper than first imagined. The front-cut to supply is around $3500. I'm waiting on a quote to come back to get a final figure on what the job will involve and for how long. If it's under $11,000 (which is what the AVO setup would have cost to do EVERYTHING on the car, including exahust, but minus the gearbox), I'll be laughing. 
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Tue, 01 April 2003 17:22
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Well, I wouldn't be suprised if it's time to turn the giggle gas on.
Which by the way you would be able to afford with the money you save.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Tue, 01 April 2003 20:54
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What halfcut you getting? $3500 is hella expensive! I picked up my ST205 cut for $3000!
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Tue, 01 April 2003 22:11
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And I've seen ST185 GT4 cuts for $1500!!
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Tue, 01 April 2003 23:37
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Since u dont need any panels, the bonnet etc off the front cut, u shouldnt pay more than $2200 for one. For $3500 you should be expecting a ST205 with low k's. I suppose if ur going to be spending a lot of money on this project, its worthwhile getting something newer.
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Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Wed, 02 April 2003 06:22
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Just to add to what DannyGT4 said:
ST185RC GT4 - forged pistons - NO
- ct26 - YES- UPGRADED OVER STANDARD ONE
- intercooler - WATER to AIR
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Wed, 02 April 2003 10:09
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| CeLiCa wrote on Wed, 02 April 2003 09:37 |
Since u dont need any panels, the bonnet etc off the front cut, u shouldnt pay more than $2200 for one. For $3500 you should be expecting a ST205 with low k's. I suppose if ur going to be spending a lot of money on this project, its worthwhile getting something newer.
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Ok, so what do you consider to be 'newer'? According to these guys, this one has 80,000 km's on it. My RAV4 has 75,000 km's.
I'll enquire on the cost of the panels and such when this guy rings me back. Agreed, I should only be paying for the working engine with turbo and the gearbox.
I don't yet know if it's a ST-185 or ST-205 front-cut yet, so I'll let you know when I find out. I'll also query on the setup (forged guts, turbo type, intercooler, etc). Thanks for the advice so far. 
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Thu, 03 April 2003 04:09
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When i say newer, i mean the ST205 instead of the ST185 motor. If your seriously considering spending up to 10k on this project, it is more worthwhile to buy a 205 motor for 1k more and have a better platform for your mods. The CT20b turbo on the 205 is good for upto 20-22psi while the CT26 is pretty much useless after 16psi. Not to mention the other goodies u get in the 205 front cut.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Thu, 03 April 2003 04:13
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wait a sec BigFella!
what year model is your RAV4?
is the GT4 engine the same year or newer than your RAV4?
will the RTA let you put a GT4 engine in that is older than the car? (i doubt it)
research this before u buy.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Thu, 03 April 2003 04:22
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I got no idea and I really don't care what the RTA has to say about it either. I'm sure they still wouldn't approve sticking a turbo onto a stock 3S-FE, correct? Personally they're a bunch of bureaucratic assholes with nothing better to do than try to pick us off for "illegal" mods. But that's my opinion... 
Isn't the 3S-GTE just the 3S (2 Litre) block with the sportier head and the turbo? To me there's not that much difference as I'm thinking that these engine are from the same generation. 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Thu, 03 April 2003 09:44
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| BigFella_73 wrote on Thu, 03 April 2003 14:22 |
I got no idea and I really don't care what the RTA has to say about it either. I'm sure they still wouldn't approve sticking a turbo onto a stock 3S-FE, correct? Personally they're a bunch of bureaucratic assholes with nothing better to do than try to pick us off for "illegal" mods. But that's my opinion...
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you wont get anywhere with that sort of attitude (and i mean that literally cause your car will not be registerable)
| BigFella_73 wrote on Thu, 03 April 2003 14:22 |
Isn't the 3S-GTE just the 3S (2 Litre) block with the sportier head and the turbo? To me there's not that much difference as I'm thinking that these engine are from the same generation.
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you cannot legally put in an engine that is older than the car, regardless of capacity or engine family!
RTA wont register you and insurance wont cover you
pull your head in and abide by the rules like everyone else, find out what engine was made in 1999 and put that in, or turbo your 3F-FE, these 2 options are legal (when engineered) ohh yeah speaking of engineers you might want to ring one as well.
i think a GT4 engine in a RAV4 is a great idea but mate, grow up and do your research.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Thu, 03 April 2003 13:38
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Don't go flamin' me dude, not appreciated. I did say it was MY OPINION, and I'm entitled to it, as you're entitled to yours. Before you go dissin' me about my 'attitude' and telling me to pull my head in, just a few facts for ya to think about...
I've done nothing but research this project for over 2 years now... from the ground upwards I've tried to cover just about every facet of what it takes to make a project vehicle like the one I'm trying to do.
I suppose you haven't seen my thread in the Member's cars in NSW yet have you? Take a look. It details the progress I've been making from when I first bought it back in October 2001. "Do your research..." Take some of your own medicine and read about my thread first before you go hanging shit on me.
Legalities for this vehicle have been dealt with by the book so far. It's been hard enough trying to get my ride fixed under warranty when something goes wrong with it (like a 5th gear problem I had earlier). Toyota wanted to follow it's little paper-trail and make sure my ride wasn't "too low" before it got it's warranty-repair done. Take a look around you on the streets. Out of 10 modified cars (ANY modified cars, not just Toyota's), I could pick maybe 7 or 8 that are illegal in SOME way. Most of the time when the RTA and the cops pick up on the illegality it's because the dickhead behind the wheel either doesn't have a licence and doesn't know how to drive, or more likely that the driver is in the 'race ya mates' attitude, drops the hammer and a cop is 2 cars behind. Busted. It's only then they find out that part of the car is illegal, when they do a closer inspection of it. Hell, what's a RAV4 to them? Most people haven't even SEEN a modded RAV4 before. I'm no hoon and I don't go driving like a dickhead either - there's a time and a place for that, and it's off the police-patrolled roads and/or on the track or ¼-mile instead.
Maybe you should give these guys (the people wanting to put this front-cut into the RAV4) a little more credit. Would they go along and purposely put in an engine that they knew was going to be illegal because it's older than the car? Let's find out a bit more about the conversion first and I'll get back to you all tomorrow.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Thu, 03 April 2003 22:05
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| BigFella_73 wrote on Thu, 03 April 2003 23:38 |
I suppose you haven't seen my thread in the Member's cars in NSW yet have you? Take a look. It details the progress I've been making from when I first bought it back in October 2001.
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yes i have seen the thread, i read it the day u posted it, it is a fine example of a RAV4, and that is why im warning you about these rules, so you dont end up spending a lot of money only to find out that what you have done cannot be registered.
Us toymodders want to see your car on the road as much as you do, we are always trying to help regardless of how many smilies we put in out posts  to stop people from taking things the wrong way.
this can easily become a slinging match so I am going to stop posting in this thread from here on.
look forward to seeing the car at an upcomming event.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Thu, 03 April 2003 23:38
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Here's a suggestion that should it make it legal.
The Caldina has been available since 1997 with the 3SGTE and 4wd.
the current version is actually called a GT4.
The only problem is that most Caldinas are auto, but I'm sure there's no rules from the RTA about gearbox swaps.
but there are some advances from the Gen 3 3S in the Celica to the Gen 4 3S in the Caldinas.
There was a thread on this. Do a search for 3SGTE.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Fri, 04 April 2003 12:37
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Sorry if I got a bit overboard on my last post. I only get to do this project once and I wanna make sure that it gets done properly.
I rang the guys I consulted about the front-cut earlier on today, and I asked them about cost of it, and the front-cut apparently comes with no other parts other than what's needed for the drop-in to the RAV4; no other panels, etc... I then asked about the legalities of putting in another engine in that wasn't as new as my 1999 RAV4. He said that the engines have a 4 year leeway either side of the car being dropped into. I'm guessing he's meaning the same 3S block can be used with different head, internals and turbo, provided that they're made within 4 years either-way of the car getting the transplant.
As for the engine, he told me it's a 1997 ST-205 Group-A. How hard can these things go? Boost figures, max power, torque, etc. Anyone have figures on these? I guess it's probably worth the $3400 then.
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Fri, 04 April 2003 17:12
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I think your in luck dude... my friend wants to get rid of his 1997 GRP A ST205 motor and its in perfect condition other than needing the oil seals on the turbo to be replaced. He's looking for a lot less than $3400 for it. PM me if ur interested because he looking to sell it quick.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 00:33
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st205 3s-gte:
255 bhp@6000 rpm
225 lb-ft@4000
I'm not sure about boost, but it would be around 13 psi
the caldina GT-T engine has a little more power and a little more torque (5 bhp and 14 lb-ft)
if you want legal, I'd be going the caldina engine with an st-205 gbox, but be aware that'll cost more
one thing on defects... what you said about being a dickhead is mostly true.... but I've seen cops set up "inspection station" where they just pull over anything that looks or sounds or might be modded, have a look, and then (almost all of the time) slap a defect sticker on it.
THAT really shits me
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 01:28
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One question, how can they tell what year the engine was made if they're looking at the engine bay. Wouldn't all the detail in the engine bay (like VIN etc) be for the RAV4?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 01:30
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that's not the problem... the problem is getting it passed for engineering/rego/emissions
otherwise when you get pulled over and it's not engineered or regoed, then they bend you over the bonnet and violate you
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 02:43
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When I brought my front cut, I asked the importer what year car it came from. He told me that there's no way of knowing because Australia is one of the only countries that lists manufacture dates on the car. I don't know how true this is but I couldnt find any evidence of a year of manufacture on my front cut even though all the complience plates etc. were still there. So how will the authorities know if u install a 3SGTE from a ST205 and claim its a 1999 model Caldina motor? Other than the IC which probably wont be used, how will they know the difference? Both the engines look quite similar and its not as if an engineer would be that knowlegable to know the exact differences btn the two. Im just saying this because the Caldina motor is quite rare and very expensive.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 02:49
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When you buy a front cut you are givin a receipt with the VIN number! The VIN number is used to find out the year model! I rang toyota a few weeks ago to find out the year model of mine!
When you get your car registered you will need to supply the VIN number! So yes they will know!
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 05:11
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Thats strange, my importer never supplied me with a VIN number
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 05:12
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the engine number imprinted onto the block will also tell them what year is it (I think)
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 13:07
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actually caldina's been around since 93 i believe, in the form of an ST195.
the ST205 does not have forged pistons Danny..they are simply squeeze cast and coated, but do happily take a healthy 1.6bar of boost, just like the 185 pistons =]
The 3SGTE is nothing like the 3SFE...its barely the same engine, besides the code, the block and head are completely different.
You wont be able to put any 3SGTE in besides one from an ST215 Caldina, since the older engines won't meet the Australian emission standards of 1999 if thats the correct year of your RAV4. This is the mjaor problem with swapping in an older engine, and well you can ignore all this ,but if you get defected (which is likely), you're in big trouble and you won't get it engineered under the new rules which will be coming in.
Also note that the Japanese do emissions at slower speeds than here, also already prewarmed cat converters, so its harder to get an engine like that to pass. Do it right believe me, it's not worth the hassles and troubles of defects.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 13:25
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So where does that leave me then??
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 13:27
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Up a dirt road in a Rav4 without a 3S-GTE!
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 13:30
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Hah! Dirt road? Not a chance...
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 13:32
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Well I was going to say a Creek!
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 13:34
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Even less chance... but that still doens't help my plight any. 
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sat, 05 April 2003 13:35
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Just speak to some engineers!!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sun, 06 April 2003 01:59
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I know if you do a search on the internet you will find at TTE in Germany did a 3S-GTE conversion in a Rav 4
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sun, 06 April 2003 14:33
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Thanks heaps, but the RAV4 is in Germany, as was the conversion - this is Australia.
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Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sun, 06 April 2003 15:15
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Im guessing that if you did this conversion, you car would be running full time AWD wouldn't it?
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Sun, 06 April 2003 15:37
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Correct - it's running fulltime AWD right now, as every RAV4 in Australia does.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Mon, 07 April 2003 00:16
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Errr....Caldina 3SGTE???
(Doesn't seem as though you have much choice... )
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3S-GTE into RAV4.
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Mon, 07 April 2003 00:49
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Ahh, but it seems I do...
I spoke to these guys that I made the initial enquiry about not half-hour ago, and they said that they would have it engineer-certified as nothing leaves their shop illegaly modified. True, the 3S-GTE computer will give different readings to the stock RAV4's readings - I'll have this certification to back it up though, for emissions controls, etc. The new VIN number is given to me once the front-cut has been installed and test-run, from what I can gather.
I'll find out more soon.
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