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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 03:59
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ok heres my problem ive got a ra23, now im thinking about a few engines that i could put in with the keast of troubles... the first is the 1g-gte but then i have to get in engeneered, so that may take some time, the second is 4a-gze but i dont want a supercharger, and this also has to go through an engeneer, then i was also thinking about just putting a 18r-geu, the 18r doesnt have to be engeneered so that would be great and would i be correct that it can be swapped with my 18-rc for no problems??? the 18r would probably be my best bet right??? what do u guys think???
also if i could have some specs on the engine its self... double over head cam yes? no?, fuel injected? hp? thanx for any help
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 04:07
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in simple terms from easiest to hardest
18R-C (single cam, single carb, 97HP) bolt-in, drive away
18R-G (twin cam, twin carb, 140HP?) bolt-in and drive away
18R-GEU (twin cam, EFI, 140HP?) bolt-in, wire up ecu, install lift pump surge tank and EFI pump, drive away
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 04:44
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yer im likeing the efi.... i hate carbies, they look ugly... hmm 140hp eh! so what engine mods can be done to the engine, and how old is the engine???
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 05:03
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the motor would be just as old as your car! Most of the ones you find on the market need a rebuild or will need one soon, so expect that cost to come along sometime soon. (up to $3000 for worked rebuild)
The 18R-G isnt a bad motor with its carbies - they look sweet enough! Doing the 18R-GEU *might* require engineering for the fuel pumps etc, but im not 100%
With an EFI motor, you can easily apply some forced induction - to which these motors respond to well. For N/A mods - good extractors, head porting, oversize valves, flywheel lightening, are all bound to reap some good rewards. Head porting im told will yeild the best results.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 05:04
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You can do any mods you like to the engine... it depends what you want and how much you have to spend!
The 18R-GEU was manufactured up to 1983/84 I think.
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Registered:
April 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 05:19
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im intersted in exactly the same thing, how much would the swap cost at the end of the day?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 05:30
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EXCLUDING engine purchase, my swap from 18R-C to 18R-GU cost me around $500 or so when i added up oils, fluids, engine mounts, gaskets and other bits and pieces.
I say that without the engine price, becuase those prices VARY so much.
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Registered:
April 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 07:51
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now people is there such a thing as BETTER between the dual carby and the efi? or just different
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 09:56
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the EFI can have better fuel consumption and throttle response and will not go out of tune, and can set u up later for forced induction.
although a properly done carbie setup with cams and headwork can offer some excellent N/A power figures at the cost of fuel consumption and driveability.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 10:36
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dude, the "which is better" question is currently under discussion in another thread.
basic summary... they're the same in terms of what you can acheive
*but* efi is much easier to add forced induction to, and there are a lot more efi tuners around nowadays than carbies, with the added advantage of tuning through a laptop yourself while on the road (if youget the right ecu)
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Location:
Brisbane QLD
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 10:54
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I thought the difference was that Carbies were a Leaded engine, and EFI's were Unleaded engines? 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 12:05
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not at all... plenty of early efi cars were leaded... tho I'm not sure if any carbied engines were unleaded.
regardless, good fuel (optimax or mobil 8000) will run in leade or unleaded cars.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 12:07
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na mate my 18rc is unleadded wit a carbie...
hmmm im interested in this forced induction thing yer talking about, how hard to fit a turbz or are u talken about a supercharger... would i just be better off going a 1g-gte which i really really want because its already turboed and just pay the extra to get it certifyed... or the 4a coz of the same reason cept its supercharged...
now back to the 18r-geu... say money wasnt an issue(which it is but anyway) what can i have done to the engine in its N/A state. with prices(ballpark figures)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 12:10
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fitting isn't the problem (I was referring mainly to turbos). the problem is how to set up a turbo on a carbied engine.
basically, you save yourself a lot of hassles if you can start with efi.
with n/a .. your best bet would be a new (pod) airfilter, exhaust, extractors ... generally it's not worth doing much more than that, as turbos add so much more
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 03 April 2003 12:16
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i see how u could have got confuzed... what i ment was what is needed etc. to add a turbo to a 18r-geu (efi)...
and also if i was to keep it as a n/a what engine mods can be done with prices...
sorry i should have explaind beter oh well  
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Fri, 04 April 2003 03:25
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You also want to look at the purchase price of these engines. The 18R-G/-GU is getting hard to come by nowdays, consequently the prices are going up. I did an 18R-G conversion about 5 years ago. I did all the work myself, except for the exhaust and it still cost me about $1500. I think the engine alone will cost you that much.
For the G head, the exhaust and throttle linkeages are different, so there is some cost there. If you want an efi version, there is fuel mods and electrical work to do. After all this work, you end up with about an extra 50hp.
OR
Go for the 1G. I would advise a brake upgrade anyway as the standard ones are crap. And what else over an 18R-GU, well modify a gearbox crossmember and sump and thats about it. The 1G-GTE will triple the power of a tired 18r in standard trim.
Having owned both, I think I can say that I wouldn't stuff around with an 18R-GU. Lots of work for moderate gains. Either go for a cerby 18R-G or if you are happy to put in the extra work, go for a 1G-GTE. You won't regret it.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Fri, 04 April 2003 03:51
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yeah everything u just said ive been thinking about... i want to to the 18r because its much easier but not that much more power, then if i just cleaned out my current 18rc...
i really want to the the 1ggte because of the massive amounts ov power is will have in my car, and the whole twin turbo thing... but this engine will cost alot more to get done... so far on prices ive been quoted 1500 for 1g-gte with mid/rear sump, with a supra 5 speed... with loom etc. if came straight out ov a supra, the dude wanted to put in a 1j...
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Fri, 04 April 2003 03:58
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$1500 for engine, box and loom is great.
You would be lucky to get a decent 18RG for that.
Come along to one of the meetings and have a look at some of the cars with 1G's There ain't that much to it. There is a few good tech articles on this site, you should have a look.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Fri, 04 April 2003 05:03
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On the contrary,
I picked up a complete 18R-GEU with complete loom, a bosch H/Pres pump and and ECU for $500. All i needed was new clutch and extractors and few little things, and its almost ready to go. Motor even came with original Air flow Metre and unifilter, but got lost on the way to SA somehow 
I just want to see what sort of gains i get from the old 18Rc...
Eastie, i think if you have the time and a steady income(or savings) id go a 1G conversion.. Not many people have done it in adelaide, and they may let you do it fairly easily with engineering, because it is a 2 litre into 2 litre... even if youre adding 2 cylinders. Plus you have an auto so it may be easier to modify that crossmember to fit the w58?.. or its just a wider trans tunnel, which also helps.
Engineering is around $1400 all up i think, but then youve gotta do brakes and struts, plus you may want a better diff than the stocker?? thats a bit of work, but in the end you'll have one crazy-tuff celica,
The 18rg is the easiest bolt in job, so if you wanna do a swap yourself thatd be the most straight forward as has been said.
Anyway bro, good luck with whatever path you take, and youll have to check out my 28 when its finally done. It would have been inside the place you got the car from....
Anyway Catchyo,
Guy
BlackRA28
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Fri, 04 April 2003 05:16
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Whats wrong with the idea of a 1GGE? Late model's put out around 120kW and can be had for SFA.
Rob paid $900 for his front cut and made back half of that in parts!
http://eds.au.com - Check out the 1GGE RA40 conversion
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Fri, 04 April 2003 06:05
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yeah, i see Ed FINALLY uploaded my tech article, it only took him 6 months 
also watch for grammatical mistakes too, if you see any u can blame them on Ed as well 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Fri, 04 April 2003 06:23
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Dude, if it was up to him he couldn't be bothered, do you know how much I had to bug him for that? 
Mind you, I can't talk, haven't updated my site sine 27th of November.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sat, 05 April 2003 00:32
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blackRA28: yer i saw ya celica, lookn a lil motorless , yer the income isnt that steady but im gona save say 3-4 grand b4 i actually attempt the conversion, breaks struts etc. were always goin to be changed fopr bigger items, yer haveing a auto is cool coz the trans tunnel is wider so the man. box should go in with out any problems... Ha na im gona keep the stocky diff, na not really, not sure what one yet but a bigger and better, maybe a vn diff i heard there good, but i would like to stick to 4 stud patern unless i can get the front changed aswell...
justcallmefrank: i actually never thought ov a 1g-ge... now that u mentioned it and have basicly a full walkthrough, i may take that path, then later go gte!!! cant go wrong eh!
ok with that said, i am now considering 1g-ge (whoops i wront 1g-gte...    ) as my main engine bacause insurance, rego etc. will be a heap cheaper then twin turbo or supercharger...
now frank(as u like to be called) while i have my mims corona sitting around ready to go to the wreckers, what should i grab breaks struts??? its the st141 version... im thinking for the break conversion, and also is the rear??? anything before it goes then i realize i needed something off it and now its too late...
[Updated on: Sat, 05 April 2003 00:44]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sat, 05 April 2003 00:36
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since when is 1 turbo cheaper than 2 or a supercharger to insure?
you wacky adelaide people!
I should move there, give me a good excuse to put a gt-40 on the side of my 1jz
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sat, 05 April 2003 08:40
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Ok,
$3000-$4000 would be enough to do a 1G-GE conversion. But it would be stretching to do a 1G-GTE conversion. I recently priced it all, doing my own work and negating all the "extras", which always cost another $500 or so.
1G-GTE Front Cut - $2200
Beer for a mate to do sumps mods $30
Corona/Hilux/Pug Brake conversion $550
Fuel pumps/tanks/lines $350
Exhaust $700
Engineering $400
So as you can see it gets expensive quickly, and dont forget the eventual diff replacements. But for the gains its the best bang-for-buck by far!
Also the corona struts you need to use are off either the XT-130 or RT-132 coronas. Check the articles page on the toymods main page for info on 1g-gte conversions, brake upgrades and other info!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 09:19
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yer thanx everyone...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 11:42
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wats the differance in the 1G/1J conversion for the RA23
or is it just a motor price differance that turns people away from the 1JZGTE
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 11:44
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1G is a smaller engine than a 1JZ by a fair bit. Jamming a 1JZGTE into an RA23 would be akin to jamming a 1GGTE into a TA22, it just doesn't quite fit.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 11:45
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no, it's not price at all.
1jz is a decent bit heavier, and a lot longer.
it's a damn tight squeeze into an RA2x
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 12:23
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sorry, im pretty sure he ment 6 trumpets not t/b's
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 13:16
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ok, ive just been reading up, and stumbled accross the lexus is-200's 1g-fe engine, has anyone heard/seen these been converted into a ra23, or is there no point due to them not having that much more power then the 1g-gte??? con anyone shread some light on this please
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 13:18
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The problem with the 1GFE is that it is a relatively new engine. It was in SFA cars apart from the IS200/Altezza, and the problem with that is they were a $50k car which makes them expensive.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Sun, 06 April 2003 13:27
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there are lots of gens of 1G-GE's
the soarer/supra 1g makes 140bhp@6400rpm and 120lb-ft@4600rpm
if you can find another one (which is unlikely) they tend to make a little more, 160bhp@6400 and slightly more torque
the word is persuade 
the 1g-fe makes about 160bhp.. definitly not worth it for the extra cash (a 1g-gte would be had a lot cheaper)
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Mon, 07 April 2003 10:36
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Im sure the 1G-ge is a better and newer engine than the older celica motors but for all the extra cash and messing around 140Bhp could be achieved quite easily from a mildly worked 18RG/e, even moreso with the addition of forced induction... and still remaining 4cyl. same engine mounts etc.. just a thought..
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Tue, 08 April 2003 00:38
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Eastie, i was talking about putting 6 4age 20valve, or 6 either kawasaki or suzuki motorbike throtle bodys onto the 1g-ge so that you get that screaming noise of the intake that the 4age 20valve gets. i have seen these throtle bodys on a stocker 3sge that was put in a hilux and that car made an extra 20hp at the back wheels after these mods. dont even think about using the crap vn ss diff cause these things are blody expensive and they still break easy. get a hilux diff witha 4.11:1 LSD centre. with the way that you drive itll take a lot longer to break one of these babys. also dont muck around with the standard ecu, get a microtech or something simmilar to run the motor.l
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Tue, 08 April 2003 05:26
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another thing to note comparing the 1G-GE to an 18R-G(EU) is that fact that the 18R-G is lighter, and shorter - placing the wieght balance as it should be. Unlike the 1G which puts too much wieght forward over the front wheels. I would only get the 1G if i were going the route of the turbo or supercharged models
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Location:
bris
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Tue, 08 April 2003 05:41
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hmm... i never considered a 4A-G(Z)E in my celica before, whats the average cost of these and the chances of finding a RWD one?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Tue, 08 April 2003 10:27
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average cost of 4A-GZE front cut = $2200
chance of finding RWD one: Zero million percent
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Tue, 08 April 2003 12:41
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they never came out in front engine rwd cars (I'm pretty sure)
so your chances are zero
that said, a few people in toymods have used them in that sort of setup, so you shouldn't have trouble finding help on how to do it
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Wed, 09 April 2003 09:47
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HMMM, talken to some import places, they said not worth getting a 1g-ge as it will not be much beter then my 18r-c, one dude said maybe just take off the turbos, and get extractors but this will relate in a lumpy engine, coz the compression etc... so, with that said, i will try to find 1g-gte as these are much easier to come buy, and the 3 places i saw they all had one in the back.. where as a 1g-ge will take alot more searching and will end up costing the same ammount...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Wed, 09 April 2003 09:49
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exactly
who wants a 1g-ge when they can have 2 turbos hanging off it for pretty much the same price?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Wed, 09 April 2003 10:26
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Cos you can get a 1GGE front cut for less than a 1GGTE if you look hard enough. Look at what rob_ra40 got, paid $950 for the front cut and made $500 from the cut. Try nowadays getting a decent 1GGTE front cut for that price.
Second of all, you won't have the insurance issues of having a modified car AND a turbo car.
Thirdly, I guarantee the 1GGE will go lots harder than an 18R-C. Methinks someone was telling you pork pies or just didn't know better. Look at the specs, what does the 18R-C make, something in the vicinity of 80hp, the 160hp of the 1GGE is double that.
As for the weight, I'd be interested to know just how much difference there is. I know the weight balance will probably be a tad for the worse, but the design brief for the 1G was to make it light, and they made a big fan-fare about it being lighter than Nissans 4-cylinder FJ20 at the time. It may weigh more, but it would be by much at all.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Wed, 09 April 2003 11:58
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personally I'd take the fj20 given a choice
that thing is a *tough* 4-cyl
also remember that the early model (and lower HP) 1g-ge's are going to be a lot cheaper than a late model lexus half cut.
that said, an early model 1g-ge still makes 130-140bhp
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Wed, 09 April 2003 22:30
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| eastie wrote on Wed, 09 April 2003 19:47 |
HMMM, talken to some import places, they said not worth getting a 1g-ge as it will not be much beter then my 18r-c,
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WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is obvious they only said this so they could sell u the most expensive 1G version they had
there is absolutely no way in hell the 1G-GE is only just a little better than the 18R-C, i know it aint no GTE but it is certainly a lot better than the 18R-C
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 10 April 2003 00:15
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yeah ok... well i would like everyones opinions on if it would be a waste of money to get the 1g-ge 1/2 cut and put that in, when eventually i will be going gte anywayz. or would it be worth while in that all the modifications would have already been done by the time i get the gte? and the gte can then just be swapped over???
Also what power figures have people gottn from ge's, and what mods if u know of them aswell...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 10 April 2003 02:00
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Engine conversions are a PITA - don't do it twice in a row if you can avoid it, because you'll end up regretting it. If you want to put a 1G-GTE in your car eventually, just live with the 18R-C until then.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Thu, 10 April 2003 02:44
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agreed, if you eventually want a GTE, dont bother with the 1G-GE, it will save you time and money.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Mon, 21 April 2003 10:57
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the 18rg's were 130hp dohc 8 valve... uses same block as 18rc but with different pistons 9:5:1 compression points ignition
18rgu most commonly found same as 18rg but 120hp but you take the polution gear off and it will be around the same as 18rg but has 9:2:1 compression electronic ignition
18rgeu i am not sure about but they have same 9:2:1 compression and is very hard to find you can use 18rc parts on 18rg as long as its got to do with bottom end
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Mon, 21 April 2003 22:00
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g'day,
i have had an 18rc, then an 18rg, which was later treated to a tough rebuild with high comp pistonsand cams etc.... and now a 1ggte.
don't mess around.... get a 1ggte. the conversions is easy as. what you don't get from the power figures (and this is including the 1gge) is how smooth and torqey the six cylinders are in comparison to the early motors. They start easy in all weather and get great fuel economy. plus have the bonus of making your car increase in value....
my car sits around the same height (maybe a little higher) in the front end after removing the 18rg and fitting the 1ggte so there should be f*#k all difference in weight.
Cheers
Stew
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: which motor.... please help
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Tue, 22 April 2003 01:50
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its true that the wieght of the 1g-gte would be the same or very similar to the 18R-G.... but the problem is with weight distribution. The 1G-GTE is a much longer motor, and hangs out further in front of the front wheels, thus making a more front biased split weight of the car (front wheels hold more wieght than rear). If you look at where the 18R sits, its far further back, and thus less bias on the front wheels.
That said - you can make all that up with sheer power in the 1G!!
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