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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Mon, 07 April 2003 11:21
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Ok heres the info on my engine,
its rooted
the last owner says that oil went everywhere when he was just driving it normaly at the time when it carked it.
It's completely seized up and don't run anywhere even with a rolling start.
Whats wrong with it, any estimates will do so I know what to look for.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Mon, 07 April 2003 14:10
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If it's seized, it's a basket case - don't even consider fixing it.
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Tue, 08 April 2003 21:27
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the timing chain may be the likely cause of seizing pull the tappet cover off and take a look. is the engine oil clean or black and gummy it may be the eng that is seized in most cases it will be to far damged to repair. if it has an auto behind this also can seize but rolling starts tells me its a manual, with the tappet cover off check cam and rocker arms for wear and discolouration.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 07:46
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the last guy had it sitting around for about 3 months and didn't even bother to find out whats wrong, but yeah, i'll open it up and take a look
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 08:23
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One word of advice: pay a mechanic to do this for you. If you can't find the timing chain (which is INSIDE the engine by the way) then you probably shouldn't be doing this sort of mechanical work. 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 08:25
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of course i'll be paying a mechanic, im only 17 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 08:27
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The 22R-E only came out with a timing chain. It should be behind all the belts and other gear (sorry, I've forgotten what its all called). From the look of your picture, you do have a 22R-E, from what I can see anyway.
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Location:
vic
Registered:
November 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 12:02
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your best bet is to go and buy a new engine.
if you're not feeling very affluent, but another 22r-e and drop it in. all you need is a friend who knows what he's doing and an engine hoist.
your other option is to go aftermarket. more expensive, more hassles... but anyone on the forums will tell you the result is all worth it
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 12:25
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I find this fairly comical.
Am I the ONLY one?
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 12:37
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I think you're the only one....care to explain the humour?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 09 April 2003 13:54
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Dropping in the engine isn't going to be too hard, can get my cousin to do it for me, mechanic.
Anybody got any good price quotes on a good 22r-e? Around $950 seems about right.
Oh and as for 18rg, i've decided not to use that since a rebuild would be very close around the corner, so its not really worth it
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 10 April 2003 02:07
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| Cyber-punk wrote on Wed, 09 April 2003 22:37 |
I think you're the only one....care to explain the humour?
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No, he's not the only one... I had quite the chuckle.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 10 April 2003 08:55
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my personal opinion was when something was rooted it was FUBARed.
that or it better be applying to an abortion clinic
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 10 April 2003 10:06
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it might have been a little while for me now, but you should be able to see the timing chain as soon as you lift the rocker cover off, if you dont know where the rocker cover is take it to a mechanic
r series motors have a bad life with timing chains they dont seem to last too much longer then 75,000kms
if you want a double row timing chain gear get it off a 20r which is only available overseas...NEVER use parts from a 21r there is nothing there that is better than a 22re so why bother
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 10 April 2003 11:38
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Does a double row timing chain last longer than a normal one?
Are there any other benefits?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 10 April 2003 12:35
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Still debating wether to go buy an 18r-g and drop it in, or just buy a 22r-e and put that in.
I'm a bit concerned about the 18r-g's age. They are gettting pretty old and I've read around here that they may need to be reconditioned (Expen$ive).
I'd rather get the 18r-g simply because it has more power and it's an easy install.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 10 April 2003 19:35
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yeah, the 18r-g is getting old, and parts are getting harder to come by
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Fri, 11 April 2003 09:10
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I'm quite sure there was a time in your life when you hardly knew anything about cars.
I'm learning by asking and theres nothing wrong with that
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Fri, 11 April 2003 10:01
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you cant even legally put a 18rg in a 1985 celica that is backwards engineering and is not acceptable in any state of australia
intensevil...mate i once knew nothing about cars like everyone at some stage, to get myself started i bought a socket set and a few tools and picked up a nissan rb30 motor that needed reconditioning, sure i didnt have a nissan but it was a good start in the right direction and it only cost me $20 so if i stuffed something up i could just chuck it in the wheelie bin
then onwards i learnt a lot from other helpful car enthusiasts none of which you will find here
try http://board.performanceforums.com/forums/
a lot of helpful guys, not just people out to make you look stupid
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Fri, 11 April 2003 11:06
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if engine is seized it means its been ran alot without oil in it or very low oil.. all the leaks will tell you that... all the engine parts woulda been heated up and probablyh burnt and has lost its strength so you are better off buying another motor.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Fri, 11 April 2003 11:09
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the bottom end on the 18rg is the same apart from the pistons... but you vould use the 18rc pistons.. it will bring the compression down a bit though the water pump, distributer, oil pump and alternators are the same.. cranks bolt up the same way.. they use the same con rods.. they are preddy much identical apart from the timing gear and head
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Fri, 11 April 2003 12:55
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I'll probly just do what celicamad said, get the 18r-g that was made for the ra6X style celicas, its a direct drop in and is no fuss. And once I've gotten the fuel injection going, should be all good.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Fri, 11 April 2003 13:37
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| Intensevil wrote on Fri, 11 April 2003 22:55 |
I'll probly just do what celicamad said, get the 18r-g that was made for the ra6X style celicas....
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Actually Celicamad85 said this:
| celicamad85 wrote on Fri, 11 April 2003 20:01 |
you cant even legally put a 18rg in a 1985 celica that is backwards engineering and is not acceptable in any state of australia
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Seriously Wayne, he's even misinterpreting your less than subtle directions. I don't mean to be mean but I actually thought I was offering valuble advice. It was:
- pick up a book and read it
- crack open the dead engine
- THEN ask pertinent questions
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He might even get it running. However cracking open a complex piece of machinery without knowing where anything is or knowing what it does is foolish.
When I was 15 I bought a book and read it. It was a shitty paperback called "Car Repairs For Idiots" (perfect for me). Within a month I had pulled down and rebuilt a lawn mower engine. By the time I was 18, I had built my first M engine. There were quite a few tear downs in between.
We all started with nothing, but some show insight into their lack of knowledge. Others show initiative and do a lot of their own research. Others want us to fix their engine over the PC for free. The latter group get little sympathy.
Wayne, he'd get slaughtered on performance forums.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Fri, 11 April 2003 14:13
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none of the 18r engines are legal to put in your celica.
for simplicity sake, that leaves you with another 22r-e or a 1g-gte
if you can get your hands on one (at kmart or repco) get a haynes RWD celica owners manual. I had one (but sold it with the celica) and it really is a great help. has complete diagrams of engine teardowns, etc etc.
seized engine means rooted engine, and it's not viable to fix
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sat, 12 April 2003 04:30
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based on that budget, I'd just put another 22r in, fix up whatever else needs fixing in the car, and then start looking at a conversion.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sat, 12 April 2003 05:54
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buy a 22r-e and rebuild it and then turbo it.. you already have fuel injection and computer for it all you godda do is hook up a turbo bring the compression down and get a piggy back computer.. but you wil be able to use the std computer for a while.. you just godda adjust the air flow meter and that will get you out of the shit until you buy a new computer.
you can get 22r-te's in america.. they are strong and goes hard with a decent turbo on them some guy over there has gotten 12's out of hes 22r-te if not you can buy a 1jzgte front cut and put that in.. i knwo a guy who done it with a 5 speed asnd he was getting low 13's high 12;s outa it straight up
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sat, 12 April 2003 07:49
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lol...whoops 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sat, 12 April 2003 08:28
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why would you waste your time turboing the 22re? its effectively a 20 year old sohc 8v 4 cylinder. whats the point? buy a 1ggte, or something better to put in it..or put another 22re in it. for the time being buy another car to drive and read up about engines before deciding what you're going to do...if u fuck around cars are a bottomless pit for money.
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sat, 12 April 2003 10:17
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depends if you want a engine that is going to launch like a rocket from a dead stop (22re) or one that is going to wind out forever and be good for street racing (1ggte)
not saying you cant race a 22re im going the 22rte route soon as the parts come in from the US, and ill still have all that bottom end launch with a lot more top end
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sun, 13 April 2003 08:51
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a 1ggte is just as old as a 22re . if you put a 1ggte in you godda fuck aroudn with the conversion, wireing gearbox and tailshaft plus buying the motor computer and loom and gearbox for it whereas 22re has all of that... not as much fucking around.. just a rebuild,, buying a turbo and making a manifold to suit and decompression plate for 150 bux.. be alot cheaper then a 1ggte plus 22r has more cubes being a 2.4 over the 2 ltr so it would have a bit more torque spooling the turboing up so a 22rte is a good option
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sun, 13 April 2003 08:55
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brfore i forget 22r's were in production all the way up till the mid to late 90's in hilux's the hilix 22r's were very strong with alot of updated bit that has been improved that will bolt straight onto the celica/corona 22r's which will make them even more reliable and also the hilux 22r's have a longer stroke for more torque so yeah you decide
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Sun, 13 April 2003 10:03
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The 22R has always had the same bore and stroke, so I don't know where you're getting that info from. You will find a 1G-GTE will have significantly more torque than the 22R as soon as the turbos spool up, and as the 1G owners will tell you they tend to spool up rather quickly. The 22R may have an advantage below 1500 rpm, but unless you're towing a boat that's going to make jack-all difference.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Mon, 14 April 2003 11:51
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its for affordable power from the car not towing a boat and the stroke is slightly longer in the hilux 22r's go and do some research on them and you will find that out you dont need the engine to give torque in top end thats what a decent turbo is for. yeah sure the 1g had more cylinders but it is still a 2 ltr from the 2.4 i dont think its worth putting a 1g in a street car as a conversion unless the car came out with a 6 cylinder insurance will go through the roof going from 4 cylinder non turbo to a 6 cyl twin turbo and its alot of fuck assing around to convert it
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Mon, 14 April 2003 22:58
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I think you'll find there are a lot of people on these forums with 1G's in 4-cylinder cars who are very pleased with the results. Have you actually driven a car with a 1G in it? I suspect not given your comments...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Tue, 15 April 2003 07:03
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| celicaboy wrote on Mon, 14 April 2003 21:51 |
you dont need the engine to give torque in top end thats what a decent turbo is for
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Have you seen the flow characteristics of a 22R head?
Unless the "top end" that you're talking about is 4000rpm...
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Tue, 15 April 2003 11:29
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nark dont talk about what you dont know
there a turbo 22re's on the occ list redlines at 7500 you should know your on that list
a 22rte conversion would be heaps cheaper than a 1ggte conversion...bottom line is the 1ggte bang for buck line is getting sick and nobody wants to do anything else except, there are other good toyota motors out there with more 'bang for buck' potential than a worked 1ggte
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Tue, 15 April 2003 11:53
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22r-te.
Sounds like just what I'm after, low cost high power engine.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 02:15
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At the end of the day, it's all academic.
The kid has maybe 2K to spend. He can't identify a timing chain (I hope he can now) so he won't be doing any of his own mechanical work. That means all he (and/or his parents) will be doing is taking this car to the mechanic and getting them to drop another 22RE in there. Anything else and we're as deluded as he is.
As for the rest:
22RE is a great utilitarian motor, and the 1GGTE is a great upgrade, but well outside this kid's price range.
Lock thread now.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 05:03
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what he wants has taken a backseat to the usual "my engine is better coz of this" argument
but yes
22r-e now, (which you *can* do yourself provided you a have a mechanically astute friend or 2) and all other considerations later. shouldn't cost you more than $500 (although the last time I looked at 22Rs was a while ago, but i think it was that price range)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 05:23
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| draven wrote on Wed, 16 April 2003 15:03 |
..... provided you a have a mechanically astute friend or 2.....
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A proverb.
Birds of a feather fly together.
I think the plumage is a little dull, and these birds are probably flightless.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 06:17
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mmm.... but I've got the type of friend who asks for help to change his oil, and also the kind I ask for help to change a clutch (mechanically minded and strong!)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 06:27
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Hehehe....I just have ugly ones! What does that say about me?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 06:31
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mine are all pretty boys (and girls)
which again proves that saying wrong
no shame in being ugly
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 06:45
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| gianttomato wrote on Wed, 16 April 2003 16:27 |
Hehehe....I just have ugly ones! What does that say about me?
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OI!!!!
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 06:47
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it's ok ed
I think you're sexy 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 07:10
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The actual labour involved is easy to source because I have 2 cousins that are mechanics and i should learn a thing or two from them.
And yes, after looking threw my haynes manual i can identify a timing chain with no problems now
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 07:13
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Woohoo!!
We all start from somewhere dude. The most important thing is that you're willing to listen and learn.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 07:17
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 16 April 2003 16:45 |
OI!!!!
ed
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Hehehe! Just trying to repress urges.....think unsexy thoughts, think unsexy thoughts......
Good stuff dude.....sounds like you are making headway!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 07:25
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| gianttomato wrote on Wed, 16 April 2003 17:17 |
....think unsexy thoughts, think unsexy thoughts......
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... Margaret Thatcher on a cold day, Margaret Thatcher on a cold day....
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Wed, 16 April 2003 08:15
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 16 April 2003 17:25 |
... Margaret Thatcher on a cold day, Margaret Thatcher on a cold day....
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Careful dude, I think those thoughts have been outlawed due to the associated suicide rates....
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 17 April 2003 09:55
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if you want a high revving engine without turbo you can always go with the 22r block with 20r head. cause they have bigger ports and bigger valves wel i think they r ported bigger.. it will automatically bring the compression up a shit load so theres a straight up improvement in the head then you put twin 45mm webbers on it with an electronic fuel pump you can get up to 250-280 hp with a little bit mroe work to it.. like high compression forgies bringing it to 10:5:1 compression or so
theres a place in the states who does this and thye get outstanding resulte.. they sell it as a package
and also the 22rte's only have 135 or so hp cause of the tiny ct20's they have.. the 3tgteu's r slow stock cause they ahve the same thing.. ct20's upgrade the turbo and it makes a big difference and of cause the 22rte's r gonan have bigegr ports and valves for the turbo.. but when you have forced airgoing in stock ports will even make a big difference and why would you bother with a 1ggte when you can get a 1jzgte half cut for 2k they shit on 1ggte's any day
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E rooted, need fixing
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Thu, 17 April 2003 14:31
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A few points:
* You can't put a double-row timing chain on the 22RE that comes in an 85 celica... 'cos its the short deck version. In other parts of the world there are 2 versions of the 22RE, the older tall deck one with analogue EFI, and the newer short deck one with slightly different head, slightly higher CR and TCCS EFI. In Australia, as far as I know, the '85 celica got the latter shortblock, but with the earlier analog EFI (porbably 'cos the TCCS system needs an o2 sensor and we were running leaded at the time). Latter Coronas I believe have TCCS. I am not sure if some of the 22Rs were tall deck or short.
The 20R double chain parts swap onto the tall deck version not the short, and besides which good luck finding 20R parts over here
* The 20R head, which is not of the swirlport design and while has smaller valves is supposed to flow a lot better - fits onto the 22R/E tall deck block to make the hybrid 20/22R. A side effect is a CR of 10:1 (i believe). On a short deck... I believe it drops the CR quite a bit, and it has to be milled a fair bit to work (and maybee a few other mods, i can't remember).
* For an EFI 20/22R hybrid, you have to make an adapter plate for the head... or mod the head for EFI. I don't think anyone has done the former, but there are people in the US who do this and make great engines.
People in the US do build some nice 22RE engines, but there is quite a bit of aftermarket support (and importantly, knowledge base) over there.
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The legality of such a conversion may also be questionable based on model year of car/engine and subsequent emissions requirements.
