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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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 4A-GTE Questions
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Sat, 12 April 2003 15:54
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Okay here's a few questions for all you 4A-GTE guys, now here in North Carolina (much less most of the US as I know) there's few to nill 4A-GTE AE86's so I got all excited when a friend linked me here. Now I recently got a turbo off a low mileage RB20DET my friend is using in his 240SX (S13) as he is upgrading his, the plan was to use it on my AE86 with a 4A-GZE bottom end and a blue top head. My questions are as follows:
1) For those of you using custom made turbo manifolds what dimensions did you make them. Where did you situate the turbo? What kinds of problems did you run into?
2) Do you know of any shops that sell manifolds, because here in NC there aren't any shops that aren't obsessed with Muscle Cars and it seems like it would be a pain to find someone qualified to make one.
3) What management are you using? Did you tune it yourself? If so what snags did you run into/ what features do you wish you had/didnt have on it?
4) What intercooler sizes do you recommend running?
5) What are you using for fuel systems, pumps, rails, injectors, etc.
Well thats about it for now. Thanks for your help! 
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sun, 13 April 2003 14:25
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bump-skie
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sun, 13 April 2003 15:12
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Also what engine managment are you using? Does it work with the stock computer (are you using 4ag or gze?) or is it stand alone?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 14 April 2003 00:59
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Howdy
A couple of answers:
1) I can't help with dimensions as I bought my turbo manifold.
2) HKS still manufacture the AE86 cast turbo manifold. I bought mine from Cyberspace Auto Performance in Florida for about 250USD. This takes a T25 flanged turbo, IIRC the RB20DET is a T3 type exhaust flange. Try also Teds Components in Canada I think. They are big with the MR2 guys over there.
3) I am using the factory computer (AE101 MAP variety) and a friend has used his factory setup (AE92 AFM variety). There are all sorts of options here though. I haven't set mine up but my friends uses a Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator (RRFPR) to address fuelling issues. He used a turbo from a RB25DET.
4) IC choice is a hot topic. Usually the FMIC (Front Mount InterCooler is the easiest option. You can use one from another vehicle is the available space is there or get one made. I think Spearco in the US have a big range. Check on http://www.club4ag.com forums to get an idea of what some of the other US guys use. My friend uses a cut down truck IC in a front mount. I will be using an Air/Water IC from a Subaru Legacy/Liberty RS Turbo.
5) It depends. What sort of boost will you run. Your existing lines and rail will be OK. You may need an upgraded fuel pump. If you don't have the 4AGZE injectors then you'll need some higher flowing injectors too.
Build your turbo motor from a 4AGZE and if possible build it from a later model import 4AGZE AE92 or AE101.
Take a look in the Technical Article section of this site for a buildup sheet on a 4AGTE. Also have a look at http://www.4agze.com as they have a 3 part article on this as well.
Good luck!!
Denis
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 14 April 2003 03:25
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Well this is my abbreviated plan...
Turbo: RB20DET turbo
Manifold: Custom by a local machine/exhaust shop that can handle the job...(I believe from what i've heard the HKS manifold won't work on my left hand drive car...Anyone know otherwise?)
Intercooler: Something small, probably something front mount from an Volvo/Saab/Mercedes turbo or a cheap one from a company like Spearco
Bottom End: hopefully out of a Japanese Levin/Trueno 4A-GZE..but if not out of an AW11
Exhaust: 2.5in. muffler shop special, minus cat
Fuel: GZE injectors, probably Bosch/FC RX-7 pump
Managment: Thinking MoTeC as they have an office in NC near me (what luck! one of two in the US!)
how does this sound?
What am i forgetting or going to over board on?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 14 April 2003 09:58
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Sounds like a reasonable plan to me - my original setup was with an RB20 BB turbo, JZA71 supra cooler, and even not properly tuned it made 141kw at the wheels - at the moment I'm using an RB25 turbo and proper intercooler - it's getting dyno'd tomorrow night, I'll letcha know what she does.
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 14 April 2003 12:39
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What do you mean not properly tuned, do you mean not running management??
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Tue, 15 April 2003 23:07
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Mr. Shin- Did you make your manifold or buy it?
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Wed, 16 April 2003 21:45
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bump
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Thu, 17 April 2003 10:20
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Hey peoples - sorry haven't been here for a few days...
I made both my intake and exhaust manifolds, neither of which was a particularly great challenge.
As for not properly tuned, I mean a combination of things - a leaky blow off valve, running lean and retarded timing - not a good thing by any means! I spent some time on the dyno with it the other night, only went to 152kw at the wheels, due to running out of time and still not fixing the leaky valve or ignition timing - got to get some more time there soon as I can. Oh yeah, and the 152kw wasn't recorded on a specific power run as such, just the maximum on the screen from various tuning exercises.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Thu, 17 April 2003 14:11
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Well last night I got the first two parts for the conversion. I picked up a turbo from an RB20DET and an intercooler from a Celica GT-4 (from Japan). I plan on making the GT-4 intercooler front mount, it's pretty large and the turbo is in excellent shape with around 20k miles on it. I'll post some pics later!
King- I'd definitely like to get a price quote and what maps could you give me? One's for other 86 Turbo's so I can just pull it on a dyno and fine tune everything b/c if thats it, that'd be great!! Drop me a line @ fourstringfish@aol.com
MrShin- Any tips/instructions for making those manifolds? Or just part lists for what you used to make them?! =D
About what PSI value should I start running a Blow off valve or should i get one from the start?
Thanks again guys, you've been a huge help compared to all the other places i tried. (Garage Dori, Club4ag) Thanks for the continued help!
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sat, 19 April 2003 22:14
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Bumpskie!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 21 April 2003 13:33
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Aloha AE86nS13,
Rex too is building a 4AGTE and if you look through or search the forums you'll find my recipe, because i cant be arsed going through it again.
Anyhoo, i too am building my own manifolds. It took just two weekends and some hard work to piece together my Turbo manifold and the Inlet will be even simpler.
At the moment its all together but is still only tack welded, because i need to find access to a die grinder before i fully weld, clean and finish it.
If you or anyone want details/pics just let me know.
Also all, if anyone wants one. I can make them for you it either runner or log type from steampipe (sorry no tuned length stainless yet  ) and send anywhere (im pretty sure).
But there is a fair amount of muscle ache and a few blisters from the work so i would require some financial reimbursement
Rex
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 21 April 2003 16:09
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Rex- I'd definitely like instructions/pics. I'm going to try to find you're reciepe. Also what are you charging for making them. You can respond here or email me at fourstringfish@aol.com
Thanks!
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 21 April 2003 17:29
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Also what rear ends are you guys using? Stock GT-S LSD rears I've heard have problems handling the torque of a turbo set up.
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Wed, 23 April 2003 02:22
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bumpskie
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Wed, 23 April 2003 11:37
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The rest of rex's driveline consists of 4AGZE flywheel and clutch then W50 and finally a S3 RX7 diff and Torsen LSD.
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Wed, 23 April 2003 20:14
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Can you tell me/show me pics of how you did your manifold Rex? (see above)
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sat, 26 April 2003 08:50
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As for making them for people, gimme a week or so and ill come up with some details/prices.
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sat, 26 April 2003 09:53
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That's some pretty good work dude, that must have been fun.
I so wish I had a Mig welder!
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sat, 26 April 2003 22:51
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Damn Rex that looks good! Thanks for the info!! And post up those prices when you decide on them!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sun, 27 April 2003 01:50
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man, that turbo looks farking huge! what is it?
i have been thinking about starting to make turbo manifolds, maybeye for money even. just need to get a hold of my cousin's spare MIG for a while.
ing recard to the no room for nuts, you could try using slots rather than holdes, so you can slide bolts with low profile heads in from the side maybeye.
nice work.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Sun, 27 April 2003 11:05
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'Tis a turbo from an R32 GTSt Skyline, the nice roller bearing type. As for size its roughly T28 sized, but Nissan didnt have any size markings.
Its about mid-sized. Ive used it because quite a few people have had very good results with it.
But being a common flange, i have some leway to bolt on a bigger or smaller one should the need arise.
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 28 April 2003 02:36
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Hey Rex this may sound dumb, but where did you get the materials?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Mon, 28 April 2003 09:26
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a friend of mine has a gtir motor, T28 turbo, yours looks bigger, but then the SR20 is a fatter motor i suppose.
i think if i ever get around to turboing a 4AGE i will want a split-pulse turbo, but a single would still be pretty damn cool.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Tue, 29 April 2003 01:23
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maybeye i should have said "i would want to run a twin entry turbine, as opposed to single entry turbine"
from what i have read, twin entry turbos spool faster than their equivalent single entry brothers, but BB turbos are also meant to spool quicker.
the bends were pretty cheap, yeah? from what i have heard they aren't crazy expensive, and they come with the bevelled edges to make welding more effectiv (more penetration etc)
just read a largish textbook on welding tech, interesting.
good luck with the motor!
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Location:
Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Tue, 29 April 2003 02:23
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Hey what'd you get the flanges off of? Another header or something?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4A-GTE Questions
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Tue, 29 April 2003 09:23
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Shiny,
I get yer now. Yes Twin entry turbos are supposed to spool up a little faster. But it relies on grouping two runners together depending on firing order which can be tricky for a backyarder depending on thir skill/space constraints.
Personally i wouldnt think that there is any real advantage to split pulse turbo in this situation or any situation really except for a stock road car. I would concentrate more on a smooth collector and keeping the gasses moving fast. More than likely the two smaller entry points would cause a greater restriction when the engine starts to flow more (higher load/rpm).
Bends werent really cheap, about $4-5 each on average from memory. Affirmative on the bevelled edges too. The problem is wasting a few of them during the project because of mind changing and errors and shit.
As for welding I looking at getting a welding tech book soon, but for the time being its practice, practice, practice.
AE86,
Nup, 5the flange plates were just two lumps of 80mm*10mm extruded mild steel bar/plate that just happened to be the right length for the job, lucky find really.
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