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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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I supported Toymods
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I renounced punctuation
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Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sat, 19 April 2003 09:38
 
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Leigh, I think he wants to convert it to live axle.
Robbo, it can be done. Very hard,Not really worth it IMHO.
Maybe a better idea is a R200 Skyline/Sylvia diff. All you will need then is to mount the centre and get some custom Half-shafts.
BTW, Robbo: Did you sell your W58??
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sat, 19 April 2003 10:45
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I'd be getting a custom cradle to hold a skyline diff or an ma70 diff and cradle in. The ma70 diff's have a reputation as being as strong as a fully tricked up 9 inch.
Then you get to keep your IRS. Otherwise full suspension would have to be made easily putting the cost over 5k.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sat, 19 April 2003 12:58
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Totally with Paul and Pete. I worked it out for a mate mid last year. Modify the MA61 cradle to take an MA70 diff. Modify the MA70 half shafts and you'd have a pretty indestructible setup for around 1500-2000. Swap in the MS123 5 stud hubs and you'd be set.
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Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sat, 19 April 2003 13:22
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Robbo, take it from me I have a 9 inch - you don't need a 9 inch.
There is only 1 reason i have a 9 inch, price/strength ratio..
It cost me less than $1000 for a fully rebuild (rebuilt by me) Disc brake, LSD, 3.89:1 28 spline diff. It took me about 5 months of swap meets and the like to find the components. I was lucky i had a common 9 inch conversion car.
If i was going to convert a diff for my car, I would choose the 8 inch (G series) Hilux diff. This is essentially the same internally as the MA 70 diff that has been suggested. The differences being that the hilux has a live rear axle. (non IRS)
The choices for ratios are not as good as nine inch, but do you really want 2.62:1 or 5.95:1. Me neither.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sun, 20 April 2003 03:37
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pete was right with what my intentions were..convert it to live axle. Replace whole diff centre. What is the code for the ma70 turbo diff? I need the strongest possible within reason. The car is probably going to end up being a toy...i.e ill give it a run at willowbank and have a bit of a stuff around in it..not ideal for the ma61 diff id think...w58 im rebuilding and keeping depending in what cond it is in when i pull it out this week...is still tied up in car. perhaps i will go an r154...depends on $...i suppose an ma70 turbo bottom end setup wouldnt be a bad idea..yes whoever asked i know someone with 3 9" that he will sell me one cheap...i am losing the lsd feature, but keeping the irs. imo for my application there is no real need for an lsd...unless dragway action is your main intention.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sun, 20 April 2003 03:54
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Sun, 20 April 2003 13:37 |
i am losing the lsd feature, but keeping the irs. imo for my application there is no real need for an lsd...unless dragway action is your main intention.
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im not trying to sound like a c#nt but i dont understand what your saying here
LSD is great for everyday driving and it isnt specific to drag racing at all, it aids cornering as well, shouldnt u be saying "yes i want an LSD and if you want dragway action u want to run a locker or mini spool"
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sun, 20 April 2003 05:34
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I wouldn't bother with the 9" either. If you can manage to fit the MA 70 in you'd be better off. I run the same in my MZ 20 sports sedan with a Cusco 1&2 way LSD. We have around 350KW at the wheels and the diff has shown no signs of breaking over 3years of events without even a diff cooler.
Laurie D
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I supported Toymods
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I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sun, 20 April 2003 06:18
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Laurie, to illustrate the point we need pics of your sports sedan.
Lots of pics. 
Cheers Dave.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sun, 20 April 2003 10:30
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From handling perspective the boys are on to the right theme - ma70 diff adaped into the cradle of the ma61. robbo - you said it yourself - they are STrong diffs from what the boys are also saying
The rest of the handling pacgage would probably be shagged if you swapped to solid axle anyway - they didnt get lotus to tune it right for no reason ..
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sun, 20 April 2003 10:57
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Yes it IS possible to use a 9" diff - does anyone remember the Sierra Cosworth touring cars? However, even for high budget racecars, the conversion was considered expensive (IRS 9" that is)
Also, while the 9" is a solid diff, it's also a terrible power absorber and not altogether unbreakable - I certainly wouldn't go to the trouble of losing the IRS just to stick an unthinkably heavy 9" diff in there - think about the unsprung weight to begin with...
The V8 ma61 project does have some merit (go on everyone, stone me now...) - but keep the advantages the MA61 has already got over a Torana at least!
Anyways, good luck
Plus, just HOW strong is an MA70 turbo rear end? Has anyone busted one, and if so, what did it take?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Sun, 20 April 2003 23:57
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Dear Gianttomato,
I only have prints of my racecar in action, so I'm unable to post them up here. However there are some very old shots of the car at Phillip Island on a site called toyotaturbo.com or MZ Racing.com Within the next 2 or 3 weeks our ASSA Vic web site will be up and running which will have a more recent shot ( the car looks somewhat different now). Site will be www. sportssedan.com.au Unfortunately I had a serious shunt at Calder in the first round this year and the car is undergoing major repairs and mods to the front end. (Big project)
I've noticed that you seem to know your stuff, if you want to have a look at the car, pm me and I'll give you my phone number.
Laurie D
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I supported Toymods
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 00:33
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| Laurie D wrote on Mon, 21 April 2003 09:57 |
.....However there are some very old shots of the car at Phillip Island on a site called toyotaturbo.com or MZ Racing.com .....
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Oh, that's you! I saw that a little while ago and figured that there couldn't be that many MZ20 sports sedans. I bookmarked the site. Bit busy at the moment but will definitely drop down and see you next time you run (I'll PM/email you beforehand to check if that's OK). Thanks Laurie.
Robbo, if you are absolutely adamant you want to go live rear end, maybe the RA60 suspension might bolt up to the RA65. Not my thing so I don't know but might be worth checking. If it fits, then all you'd have to do is get the RA60 points welded to your 9".
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Location:
bris
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 01:33
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ford 9 inch s a bit of overkill wouldnt you say?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 01:37
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well id prefer a ma70 turbo WHOLE bottom end...r154box and the turbo diff as well...if it is viable at a reasonable price...so w58wise, i might still be selling it...undecided right now...i dont want to do things twice replacing parts. what is the model no for the ma70 turbo diff? eg..box is r154. And anyone got one for sale? Would jzz30, mz20, jza70 have the same diff?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 01:51
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which specific diff model is off the ma70, jza70 and jzz30? Im guessing they'd all be the same? how much am i looking at for one of these?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 02:39
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Robbo, they are all G series diffs. They have an 8" crown wheel. They have been known to tolerate big wads of power and torque.
MA70 will have a clutch pack LSD, whilst the JZA70 has a Torsen LSD (I think). The xZZ30s have G series diffs but not sure what type....the Soarer boys can fill you in. A G series IRS LSD will set you back anywhere from $400 up. Torsens might be a little more. Andrew Vibert (Toymods advertiser) had a whole GZ20 rear end (caliper to caliper) for sale for $440 a little while ago.
To fit one to an MA61 you'd have to modify the diff cradle and the half shafts. The engineer modifying the cradle will want to know what angle you have mounted your 302 at so he can set up the correct pinion angle so you don't get horrific vibrations. The half shafts will need to be modifed (from memory they needed to be shortened, resplined and needed a new flange to mount to the MA61/MS123 rear hub). It doesn't sound like much but it is all fiddly and time consuming work.
Another option might be to buy an F series TRD 4 pinion LSD centre. This would be a direct bolt in swap for your diff. They are available from TRD via New Zealand for about $1300 AUD.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 02:58
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| gianttomato wrote on Mon, 21 April 2003 12:39 |
The engineer modifying the cradle will want to know what angle you have mounted your 302 at so he can set up the correct pinion angle so you don't get horrific vibrations.
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not necessary - the ma61 'must' use a two piece drive shaft, as the damn thing runs through a hole in the subframe. the two piece shaft is required to get the thing in and out. norbie had this problem, and was forced to make up a semi custom 2 piece shaft assembly.
so, pinion angle just has to be set to the position of the existing linkage in the shaft, which presumably wont change.
as for the half shaft modification, we looked quite hard at this, and the MA70 shaft to ma61 spine is not easy, and requires basically a new custom shaft (i think we decided that would be easier than modifying the MA70 shaft?). its a while back now, but i think that was the conclusion.
ALSO, i think there was an issue with sub frame clearance with the G series. something that made it particularly hard to mount up. cant remember, but suffice to say it was hard enough to forget about doing it for some while!!
im hopeless today!
ed
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 04:08
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I can only guess the only reason ROBBO would want a 9 inch is `cause of the huge choice of ratio`s.With the V8 and W58 he wants a ratio of around 3.1 if he effectivley wants to use all 5 gears.I don`t believe any toyota diffs have this type of ratio so he has no choice but to look outside the square.
If he wants a 9" for strength reason`s only ,well i wouldn`t bother!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 05:34
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are you still using the original ma61 diff suprav8? how many ponies are you puttin into it?
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 10:02
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yeah still using original diff but the ratio is all wrong.I`m only producing 130rw/kw so the diff has no probs with that.......just the ratio that`s all stuffed up.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 10:05
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If you want my opinion, which you probably don't, I say run with the standard MA6x diff. Unless you're going to do dumb stuff like sidestepping a button clutch or running 800hp through it, you're NOT going to break it. And even if you managed to fluke breaking it, reconsider your driving style, and then replace it with another one.
I would be very surprised if you found the diff a problem.
It's all about how you treat it. You can break a 9" behind a stock 5ME if you drive like a dickhead. By the same token, I had a W58 in my Supra instead of an R154 and didn't break it because I had some sympathy. Drivelines are all about kindness 
NB: The A7x diff is a G series IRS, but doesn't have a code as such.. they will all be "G203" or something like that but each one is different. The numbers represent the fact that the diff is LSD/non-LSD, what gear ratio it is, etc. This differs between atmo, turbo, what engine type, what gearbox, where the car was originally sold, etc.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 10:08
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The only thing worth doing is maybe getting your LSD tightened... and depending on your choice of engine (please don't tell me my thoughts are wrong) you may want to change the ratios as the 4.11's (or whatever your Mk2 came with) are far too short.
Oh, and whoever said ratios aren't available didn't look hard enough. I have a friend with 3.2s...
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 10:16
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i`ve looked as hard as posible........never heard of 3.2....where did that come from??
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 12:21
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ok - another issue i just thought of - The guysa with the worked 7mgtes in their ma61's might be the best group to ask re what the 61 diff can handle - power wise their motors would have similar outputs if not more than a worked 302 - so if they are still usng standard diffs with light modifications you might save yourself alot of dollars robbo !
The person with the handle supraGTe might be a good start - by memory his is a red ma61 with a very worked 7mgte ( correct me if im wrong people - all i know is thats one very ponied up motor ! )
since your using a supra 5 speed , and the logical hookup is the supra diff already in your car - if you strengthen what you have - thats money you can out toward shoe horning the 302 in .
what purpose will the car hold too robbo - outright straight line weapon - or daily driver cum plaything?
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Location:
Barossa valley SA
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Mon, 21 April 2003 14:04
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Mon, 21 April 2003 20:05 |
It's all about how you treat it. You can break a 9" behind a stock 5ME if you drive like a dickhead.
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don't go overboard you'd be hard put to break anything with a 5me, even the speed limit can be a tough ask. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 01:15
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A turbo 3 litre six will have significantly more torque than any naturally-aspirated 5 litre engine, especially when boosted. My 2JZ-GTE is running 12psi at the moment and the tired 20-year-old diff is holding up fine, even after 10 passes on the drag strip last weekend.
A 9" diff is massive overkill for a 302, I don't care how worked it is. Remember it's torque that kills drivetrains, not power - and a 5 litre engine is always going to develop about the same amount of torque no matter what you do to it (apart from forced induction that is).
If you're serious using a Ford engine and drivetrain, might I suggest you sell your Toyota and buy a Ford? You'll find the above combination will be quite easy to install in a Cortina.
Oh and GT, the RA60 live axle will not bolt into an MA61 chassis - the mounting points are quite different.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 02:12
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| ROBBO_ma61 wrote on Tue, 22 April 2003 12:28 |
im gonna replace the bearings and rebuilt the w58 to be tougher, and might to the same to the diff...
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yeah, how exactly are you planning on doing this?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 02:28
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btw what 1/4 did you pull norbie?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 03:29
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Robbo...
I was there, and saw Norbie's (and other turbo 6s) run against the V8s...Believe me, you don't want to go there!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 04:10
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Toranas, Cortinas, Capris, Commodores, Utes. Most with blown V8s
Only one that was faster than Jason's 4cyl KE20 was the full race bred Cortina that was fully tubbed etc.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 06:14
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ok then...ill take your word for it...spose ill have to wait and see how mine goes...6 months max hopefully. We'll hopefully have the old mans e-type jag going by then...its gonna be a quicky...min 450hp predicted by engineers...in that car should be a 11-12 sec of something? Lol id like to race him...
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 07:41
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Robbo, turbo's make torque! That's what they're designed for.
Torque x RPM =Power
Turbo 6's will usually have alot more torque than an NA 8. By packing more air into a combustion cycle they increase the cylinder pressure dramatically on combustion. This pushes the piston down alot harder than normal, and therefore with alot more force than an NA 8. It's simple maths.
With my old setup(vastly improved now) I was putting out 520 Nm of torque, that's fairly hefty. Now it should be significantly higher, now have a look at what my diff can handle. There's a burnout vid in the general section and as you can see my diff handles it quite easily even whilst shifting through gears mid burnout which is what punishes diffs the most.
Applying vast amounts of torque, stopping instantly and then re-applying it is a diff killer, I don't think you'll have any probs with the stocker one.
Why don't you build your massive power V8, put it in, dyno it and then when that happens in a few years consider a diff upgrade if its neccesary.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 08:54
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gees thats really harsh traction issues  im deeply hurt..As a matter or fact the v8 im puttin in weighs no more than 450lbs, for memory i think the 5me is as heavy or heavier as that? as for the comment POS v8...well what can i say...how many v8s are there on the dragstrip as opposed to turbos? Sorry guys but i had to say it..no offense to all turbo owners, just making a point to dickhead here that v8s are by no means old and outdated technology.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 09:17
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HAHAHA!!!! V8 worshippers get cut so easily......maybe you should make a trip down to sydney sometime, there are usually a heap more turbo cars than V8 ones at eastern creek on Wednesday nights............
Even with my "crappy" puny 2 litre turbo, i have to this day never been beaten by any sort of v8 powered vehicle 
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 10:56
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Stick to the topic boys........this petty V8 V`s 6 cyl/4 cyl turbo crap is all very boring.........
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 12:15
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yep i agree suprav8...but traction dont put shit on engines you obviously know nothing about.
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Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 12:35
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I get where robbo is comming from, with his V8's have more torque argument. They have more lowdown torque...
Lowdown torque is good but a broad midrange *Onslaught* of a turbo is damn fine.
For a sporty car a turbo engine is the go, they have a rush that can't be emulated by a N/A engine. (Sorry GT, but NA sucks)
Pun intended...
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 12:49
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And turbos blow
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 13:03
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"only milk and juice come in 2 Litres"
...it's just a matter of time before the V8 crowd take up this turbo technology, we'll admit they haven't as yet, but give it a couple of years, and once they do i tell you, there will be no contest...no questions asked.
it will be quite funny to see the 4 cyl boys then!
i mean we all know "anything with 4 cylinders is only half an engine!"
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Location:
near chris and murray vic
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 13:29
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ok, im just wondering why you guys are wasting your time on this robbo character?
fine, when he first posted about puting the clevo in, but he seemed to ignore most peices of good advice offered. ok it can be done, but a cheaper (and i personally think better) option would probably be a 1UZ...
i know i wouldnt try to give someone advice when they ignored it the first few times, it reminds me too much of bashing my head against a brick wall...
and robbo, no offence mate, it is a good IDEA, i dont know if you have heaps of cash floating around, but this looks, even to a casual observer, to not be worth how much money its gonna take.
sure, you can say you've got a V8 supra, but whos gonna be laughing when you realise your'e being beaten in drags by people who spent half as much as you on their "crappy ricer"
hmm just my opinion, ignore me if you must, and sorry for being so long winded
oh and to add to what thefastj said, the latest street machine has a twin turbo VH on the cover, that on (i think) pretty low boost makes over 1500 hp... and the article says that cars like this prove turbo is the way of the future... and thats from an all V8 magazine too (except for vlts of course )
still, i'd like to see the power of a 5.7 ltr DOHC twin turbo!!
[Updated on: Wed, 23 April 2003 13:47]
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 14:42
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id lve to know how much juice a blown 5.0L V8 drinks at 4500rpm WOT 12psi ... great daily driver that one
ed
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 21:32
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I can't hold it in any longer.....
Robbo: WTF are you "Trying" to build??
You want an old pushrod V8 with and NON-lsd 9" live axle??
But it's not intended for drag racing!?!?! It just won't go around corners, get traction or stop!!!
So you basically want to turn your MA61 into old 2dr falcon or something!?!?! Are you going to put leaf springs in it too??
FYI, your more likely to blow an open 9" than an LSD 9". Once you get one wheel spinning with the 500hp your 302 will have it's only a matter of time before you smash the spider gears apart, sure the massive 9" crown wheel will be fine!!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 23:20
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...As for the "Turbo Vs V8" debate...Why not do what Jamie has done, and get the best of both worlds?
Hmmmmm...TT 1UZ! 
(Would love to have seen THAT thing at Dubbo!!!)
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Location:
Welly, NZ
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Wed, 23 April 2003 23:36
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| E30-323ti wrote on Thu, 24 April 2003 09:32 |
I can't hold it in any longer.....
Robbo: WTF are you "Trying" to build??
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I agree, what are you really trying to achieve with it?? Have you got any word on the emissions requirements yet??
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So you basically want to turn your MA61 into old 2dr falcon or something!?!?! Are you going to put leaf springs in it too??
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ROFL
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Thu, 24 April 2003 00:06
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Start handing them out. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Thu, 24 April 2003 00:32
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Mon, 21 April 2003 20:05 |
Unless you're going to do dumb stuff like sidestepping a button clutch or running 800hp through it, you're NOT going to break it.
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not so. In Paul's last project, he ripped his diff up running only ~400bhp, with a full faced clutch
that said, generally they are pretty damn tough.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Thu, 24 April 2003 00:56
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[quote title=draven wrote on Thu, 24 April 2003 10:32]| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Mon, 21 April 2003 20:05 |
In Paul's last project, he ripped his diff up running only ~400bhp
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was that the diff internals, or the diff carrier??
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Thu, 24 April 2003 01:42
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now that you mention it, i think it was the carrier he cracked
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Thu, 24 April 2003 02:13
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Thu, 24 April 2003 00:42 |
id lve to know how much juice a blown 5.0L V8 drinks at 4500rpm WOT 12psi ... great daily driver that one
ed
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i'd love to see a 4 cyl turbo tow anything that weighs more than 20kgs...
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Thu, 24 April 2003 02:22
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| thefastj wrote on Thu, 24 April 2003 12:13 |
i'd love to see a 4 cyl turbo tow anything that weighs more than 20kgs...
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that's ok, i dont have to take your mom to the shops like you do
*ducks*
ed
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 9" DIFF into ma61
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Thu, 24 April 2003 02:51
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what...the 20kgs worth....??? 
no need to get personal.
don't you have anything on the subject to say buddy??
gotta go off topic do we..
i think that reply simply means..."yes i admit, a 4 cyl can't tow nuffin"
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