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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Tue, 22 April 2003 03:07
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Ok, as some know after my little stint at Dubbo last weekend, im ready and rearing to get me some EFI goodness on my 18R-GU. I've managed to find myself an Intake manifold with throttle body and TPS i hope, so now im looking at how to control the whole thing.
18-RGEU ECU's, AFM's and looms i would've thought arent exactly going to be the easiest things to find. So im wondering whether the ECU + AFM from a 22R-E would work on such a motor. I'm sure it wouldn't be optimal, but this is just temporary while i save up my poor uni dollars and get some aftermarket computer, some rammed in air and other such goodies. In the end ill have a nice motor, but for now i just want efi to work decently enough.
And before you say do a search, i did... and didnt find much info. I just wonder if anyone has any experience or knowledge of it working.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Tue, 22 April 2003 07:41
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Its not going to work. Fuel control for the 18r is going to be different to a 22r. If it did run it would fun very poorly and possibly cause damage if it ran lean.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Tue, 22 April 2003 10:01
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I'm using an AFM and ECU from an early model Camry, with the 2S-EC engine in it. the AFM is exactly the same as that for the 18RGEU. Give me 2-3 weeks and I'll tell you how it all works out.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Tue, 22 April 2003 10:19
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When I was chasing up wiring diagrams for my 18r-geu I spoke to the blokes at SSS automotive and they provided my with the wiring diagram for an MX60 (62) cressida (5M???) which they told me they give to everyone who buys an 18r-geu from them.
After that I did a little research on the net and found pin diagrams for their repective ECU's and found the MX60's ECU pluged straight into my 18r-geu loom. personally I can't see why you couldn't use an MX60's ECU and loom and cut off 2 fuel injector plugs. If I'm Wrong let me know for future reference.
However you may have the same fuel control probs as using a 22r
I think the AFM is the same on the cressida as well? 
On another note I may be upgrading to a delco or autronic computer in the future and will probably think about selling the standard ecu and loom. I'll let you know if I do.
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Tue, 22 April 2003 14:31
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I'm guessing running a 6 cyl ECU on a 4 cyl isn't going to work out
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Tue, 22 April 2003 14:39
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As far as I know both the 18rgeu and the 5m-blah injectors batch fire according to the wiring diagrams ie 18r-geu fires to injectors at a time and the 5m fires three at a time the wiring diagram shows the two sets of injectors in series with only two wires triggering from the ECU. So in threory the ecu could run 4,6,8,10,12 cylinders... ohhhh 12 cylinders...can a jag V12 fit in a RA28 engine bay?? Yeh it's late! 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 00:49
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22R-E ECU on an 18R-G can and has been done with great success. Sure it's not ideal, but the early EFI systems are very simple and flexible - it's quite easy to adjust the mixtures by tweaking the spring pressure in the airflow meter.
A 6-cylinder ECU on a 4-cylinder engine is going to be "issues" IMO, however with a bit of experimentation you could probably make it work. I have to wonder if it's worth the effort though when 22R-E ECU's are so easy to come by?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 01:08
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exactly my thinking norbie!! i also like the idea of the 2s-e, since its also pretty easy and cheap to come by. Depending on the prices i might just buy BOTH!! heehee....
22R-E's are easy to find and buy, just go down to pick and payless, and BANG.. you've got oooodles to choose from!
I would also like to get a matching pair AFM + ECU, just so it runs as smoothly as possible.
I had thought about the 5M-E, but i would rather not break something in the "trying it out" phase....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 01:23
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well does the 18R-GEU batch fire all the injectors at once also?
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 03:18
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The 18R-geu batch fires in two pairs of two the same as the 5M-E batch fires in two pairs of Three
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 08:03
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interesting... i might have a search around and ask a few more questions. I'm interested to know if the 18r-geu uses an EGO sensor, and also if the 22r-e uses one. Also want to be CERTAIN of the batch firing arrangement of the different motors.
For now though, i think the 22R-E sounds like the goods 
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 09:09
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witzl - what do you mean by EGO?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 09:25
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EGO = exhaust gas output, ie: oxygen sensor
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 09:27
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i can tell you that the 22r-e uses an o2 sensor. Anything else you want to know about the 22r-e? i am fairly familiar with them.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 09:31
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do they batch fire in the same way that an 18R-GEU does? ie: in two batches of 2 injectors?
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 09:36
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Each injector injects, at the same time, one half of the fuel required of ideal combustion with each engine revolution.
Thats direct from the genuine toyota repair manual
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 10:02
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i have a stuffed 22re with loom and computer and afm if u need it or parts
only thing wrong with the motor is the rings.. other than that it ran like a dream
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 10:15
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what do you want for these parts? Can you pls list price for each separatly.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 12:00
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a 22r intake manifold will not bolt onto an 18rg head 
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 12:13
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well derr!!
i was asking about the AFM and ECU if you read my first post silly
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So im wondering whether the ECU + AFM from a 22R-E would work on such a motor
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 12:34
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he he i know i was just saying.... you probably couldnt use the ecu and wireing cause they will have different mapping ... the afm .. im nto sure bout that.... is it electronic ignition.. if not you can buy a good fuel only computer for under a grand.. if it is you can get a microtech ecu fitted for 2 grand or for sumfin cheaper you could go wolf 3d for a lil bnit cheaper.. im not sure how much they are but yeah... have a shop around for an aftermarket ecu.. you will be suprised how cheap some are
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 12:45
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well not really... these old computers aren't really "mapped" as such from what im aware... they are more like electronic carbies. They simply measure intake air volume and apply the appropriate fuel mixture to match that air volume and the mixture ratio. This can of course be tuned as norbie said by adjusting the spring tension in the AFM.
And aftermarket computers are a "damn the track" mod, for when i have money. For now the idea of a $150 ECU + AFM is good
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 14:13
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Go for it dude; tweaking a 22R-E ECU can't be any harder than tuning frigging sidedraughts.
FWIW the 18R-GEU ECU fires all injectors at once. It has two separate injector circuits so it appears to be batch-fire, but when you open up the ECU both circuits are joined on the circuit board. Weird!
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Wed, 23 April 2003 20:28
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The reason they have two injector pin outs is to reduce the current flow throungh each pin. If there was only 1 pin for injectors, the pin would probably foul up over time, due to excessive current flow.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Thu, 24 April 2003 00:18
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makes sense...
and norbie - i gave up on even trying to tune sidedraughts. I figure i understand EFI better, so why not go there. And thanks for the info on the "bracket-type shim" for the oil pump... i'll be investigating
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Thu, 24 April 2003 03:05
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| BansheeBuzz wrote on Wed, 23 April 2003 19:27 |
i can tell you that the 22r-e uses an o2 sensor. Anything else you want to know about the 22r-e? i am fairly familiar with them.
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I am faily familiar with them too, and I can assure you this is NOT nessesarilly true.
The 22RE in an '85 RA65 is the shortdeck head the rest of the world got in 85 but uses the older analog EFI with NO o2 sensor -we were running leaded at the time.
later 22RES.. i believe out of Coronas... are TCCS and have an o2 sensor, BUT the TCCS EFI is a lot less tweakable and mod-friendly.
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Thu, 24 April 2003 03:09
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BTW If you're really keen for analog EFI and an o2 sensor, just get an ECU shipped from someone in the US. FWIW, no o2 sensor may give a little less ecconomy but should be easier to tune.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Thu, 24 April 2003 12:08
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ill just go to the wreckers, have a look at all the 22R-E's i can find and see what i see hey!
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Thu, 24 April 2003 18:08
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I just bought some 22re stuff and found out the difference in the lead to unleaded models. So i have a computer and afm that does not run an o2 sensor which is really not much use to me. Let me know if your interested.
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Location:
Fl
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Thu, 24 April 2003 18:44
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Here in the states a fella by the name of tim, Timstoys@earthlink.net has a 2tg that is currently running a efi with a 5MGE throttle body, AFM, with a 22re ECU..While I have not seen the car I have been told that the car runs very strong. It has 2.0Liter pistons, and 290 cams. I am currently collecting the parts to do the same thing to my 2tg I will let you know how it works.
Greg
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Thu, 24 April 2003 22:57
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| BansheeBuzz wrote on Fri, 25 April 2003 04:08 |
I just bought some 22re stuff and found out the difference in the lead to unleaded models. So i have a computer and afm that does not run an o2 sensor which is really not much use to me. Let me know if your interested.
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No one seems to listen to me. What's the big deal with having an o2 sensor? Having a non-o2 sensor model with the ecu in open loop all the time (or is it closed, i always get them mixed up) should make it a lot easier to tune, and the analog EFI is a LOT easier to fool by playing with spring tension and bigger injectors.
The TCCS EFI is a lot less mod friendly, from what I hear it really doesn't like being played with much.
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Location:
Fl
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Fri, 25 April 2003 01:15
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My understanding of the early analog EFI is that the O2 sensor is used for idle to maintain mixture once the throttle is opened the afm and ecu mainain mixture.
Greg
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Fri, 25 April 2003 14:06
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even though i am running unleaded... i think i will have no real need for an O2 sensor unless i particularly want to run closed loop ECU. The need for the EGO sensor isn't major... so i wont be using one!
i would be interested in your gear banshee... but you are in gold coast, and unless your price is particularly good, there isnt much point sorry.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Sat, 26 April 2003 09:19
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i just read this 18rg/2tgu site and it says that the 2TGEU and 18RGEU can be run with the early Toyota 4AG computers and will be excellent low maintenance fuel injection systems and thats from a preddy reliable site so i think that should be of consideration
i ahve never ehard of it until now.. has anybody else heard of it?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Sat, 26 April 2003 10:06
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that woud be the the toysport site... i have since learned to take their information with a pinch of salt....
all the same, 22R-E will still be cheaper!
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Sun, 27 April 2003 00:05
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it would be a cheaper option but if the 4ag computer works it would be more efficient i reckon
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 22R-E EFI gear on 18R-G? Is it all good?
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Sun, 27 April 2003 01:31
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Witzl, if you're really keen you could try this DIY EFI. A few guys on the OCC list are going this way.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
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