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Location:
Darwn
Registered:
April 2003
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What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 05:29
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Hi there! I currently own an 89 Toyota Celica and have recently developed the taste for a more performace-oriented car. I want to buy a car that performs well, is rear-wheel drive and is reasonably economical to run. A freind suggested an old toyota sprinter (83-86 model). He said i could put a 4AG motor in it for like $1000 or a 4AGZE or something for a bit more. This would make it a quite fast car and i think i would enjoy working on it. I would also eventually re-do the interior, respray the car and possibly get a body kit (when i sell my celica in 12 months or so...).
I presently have $4000 to spend and will obviously have more money if/when i sell my celica in the future.
What are everyones thoughts on this?
Are the standard aussie sprinters difficult to come by with this kind of money and in good condition (primarily the BODY in good condtion)?
Should i be thinking about any other cars int his kind of price range?
Should i forget about it and just stick with my celica? (I have been told my car is more of a 'chicks car'..)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 06:10
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Forget what people tell you about your car. Do you like it? If so, keep it. If your Celica is the SX version it will be quite a bit faster than a 4AG Sprinter. It's also a better overall package (despite being FWD) and of course it's a newer car. I think you'd find a Sprinter a bit of a downgrade unless you threw lots of money at it, and with $4k to spend that's not going to happen.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 06:51
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Agreed,
In stock form, a sprinter is a passenger car, that's what I believe anyway.
The celica is better in almost all other aspects. However, the 86 has the potential to become an awesome ride only if you are willing to pump money into it.
For some reason, the sprinter is being a sold at a premium these days, anywhere between $2.5 to $4k for a stock one, in relatively alright condition. (some would argue otherwise). Add to this that they are real OLD, and spare parts are hard to obtain. You have to ask yourself is it worth it?
To get the sprinter to be sporty, you'll have to spend a bit of money. You can probably pick up a 4age for about 700+, but once you finish the whole conversion, it will cost you at least 1500-2000 if you do MOST of the work yourself. Drive in Drive out conversion are 3k +. And even then, it'll be slower than the SX.
Add this to the cost of a suspension package, an exhaust system, an LSD rear disc end, etc.. and you'll be looking over 10k!!!!
The sprinter is a great car. If it was cheaper, I definitely would recommend it. But in terms of dollar performance, it's a bit pricey. A silvia comes close in terms of price/performance, And is definitely better value. But a celica SX is awesome (my mate has one, and I reckon it's kewl as). Sprinter is a car for the 86 passionate or the enthusiast (if you are after sports performance). Other than that, it's an overpriced passenger car.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 07:24
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If i was you - and if thats your car in the avitar id keep it - The guys are right - the st162 SX is a much better package than a 4age sprinter for many reasons ( ie modern , has mod cons like aircon , looks sportier , handles better ) and even though its FWD they are still one of the best FWD cars ever made
Id either A:) look at liberating more power from the 3sge - they have a good pile of potential with a few mods ( ie cams induction exhaust ) Or if you want to pump money into it - Upgrade the motor to a 3sgte like in the GT4 - Turbo twin cam 2 litre near on bulloetproof toyota goodness
If you want to swap cars - and like your celica already id stronly suggest the st185 Gt4 - they are pretty cheap - go like the clappers and look dead sexhay !
On top of that 4wd and turbo too ! all for about 10K
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 07:27
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I forgot to mention that if you want to buy a performance 86, your better off buying a pre modded one.
one with a 4age in it, often go for 4.5k to 7k...
Mild modded ones with upgrdaded brakes and suspension, 6k to 9k...
or hardcore ones with LSD, bodykits, nice paintjobs go for 9k +.
For example, the black 20v that was for sale recently had an excess of 30k pumped in, and was for sale for a little over than a third of that cost. BLoody good valuein my books.
my 2 cents.
Rock on.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 07:29
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just read you have 4k to burn + possible funds from selling your st162
Seeing that the 162 sells for about the 7K mark - theres your purchase price for a GT4 ..
Or 4k could get you in the ballpark of:
New suspension in the 162 ( ie lowered springs , shocks , swaybars etc )
new exhaust ( decent foowing performance system )
Possible camming porting Etc done to your 162 head
Decent Air induction kit .. ( They need AIR - a downfall in the 3sgte for example in the gt4 - the stock induction is bad )
Youd have one hell of a good handling , performing fwd 162 there.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 07:35
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On an amusing note,
One of my friends bought a JDM 86, and spent shitloads on reshelling it to an aus spec shell.
He copped the comment off some idiot. "10grand after, and it's still a bomb".... that stirred him up big time  ....
maybe the sexy GT4 is the way to go hehehehe.
Rock ON
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 07:41
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dont get me wrong - an 86 - thats been modded to the guts is a good package - but its an older car - and never really intended to be a sportscar ..
they guys do great work to get them handlinglike they do but in my oppinion the money could be better spent upgrading to a newer Cillycar or building on what he already has !
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 07:41
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I'm probably gonna get shot for this,
But if I was going to look for some rwd car in that price range (4k + st162 value), I'd either buy a
1. Rx7 fc3s.
2. silvia.
Both have a very sporty feel. Especially the RX7, as it's a pure sports car. The silvia can be hotted off it's nuts big time, and still be affordable. THough I must admit, nothing tops the economy versus perfomance of the 4age in terms of fuel.
Rock on.
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Location:
Darwn
Registered:
April 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 08:02
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hehehehehehe.....
your friends sounds like they've got initial d fever...
For starters, not all RWD can drift. When was the last time you saw a commodore drifting?
To get a drift setup to drift *safely* costs lots of $$$$. The stock sprinter has too much body roll. Just changin the springs is not sufficient. I looked into a whiteline package, and it costed like 2300 un installed.
Most importantly, you need a Limited slip differntial and disc brakes if you want to do REAL drifts. No use getting into a drift, and counter steering for nothing, cause there is no traction to accelarate. Power slides, and e turns with the hand brakes does look flashy but arent' real drifts. An LSD rear end will cost about 2000 bux if you can find one. They are the holy grail for sprinter owners. Very hard to obtain.
And then it's the issue of tyres. You'll need some good gripping wheels, or if you like the jap brand wank factor, the drift range (watanabes, etc..). As you could see, this could easily pump up the cost of your car to big $$$$$.
If you are into drifting, go SILVIA.. They are cheaper to do up, and are newer. Or RX7, but the rotary is not everyones cup of tea.
Rock ON.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 08:10
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Chuckles - what does your buddy drive out of curiousity - we could give him a spec Vs spec comparison if he thinks your car is ghey and all
Also early Silvias are just for guys who cant afford REAL nissan Sportscars - like GTS's and GTR's , Zed's and even later 200sx's
Power wise ( in NA form ) they are no more pokey than your Celica - Only benifit they have is RWD over FWD. In fact you'd probably find in a straight line contest with a silvia - yours would out- accellerate it off the mark providing you launched right
As for drifting - His idea of drifting is probably getting tailey in the wet while driving his mums car in the rain .. 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 08:20
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But silvia does have a good weight distrubution ratio, and relatively good handling, Ideal for drifting.
REAL drifting.. Most of the cars on the japanese drifiting videos are RPS13, and S13s...
That was so funny.
The tailes in the wet business.. HAHAHAHHAHA.. that was so funny. Good call.
Rock ON.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 09:44
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I heartily agree with what everyone's said so far ...
If you want a performance RWD car, you just can't beat a S13 Silvia in terms of value for each $$$ you spend. Rotary cars are great but I hear that they require more maintenance.
Your Celica is a good car ... even if it is FWD, your particular model is also a classic in the making.
As for AE86's, you will not get far on $4k from personal experience - I would only recommend them if you really love them and are prepared to put up with both the good and bad sides of owning one.
Even after all the money I've spent, I've still got no LSD ... but this will be rectified hopefully by the end of this year. 
Still awaiting for sig to be updated ... 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 09:59
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Personally, I'd go for the rx7, get a nice series 4.
People are sceptical about rotary cars because they are uneducated about them. But don't be put off. They require no more maintenance than a normal piston car would and the only major thing about maintaining is that you DON'T use synthetic oil.
They are very easy to extract more power out of. Simply by porting lots of power can be acheived. And they also gain a fair bit of power from a decent rotar exhaust (Around 10kw Minimum powergain there for 13b's).
The Fc is rwd, fairly light, powerful, easy to mod, unique and a bread sports car.
And as for the hairdresser car comments, just ignore them. Some people will always diss you and your car, don't change the car just to please them.
Anyway, I'm hoping this helps you make your decision... towards the fc
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Location:
campbelltown
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 10:02
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keep the celica man only get the sprinter if your dedicated enough to fix it up restore it enough to be respectable
aussie delivered sprinters by now are of poor quality because some people dont know what they are
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 10:24
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hmmm, the RX7 despite it's looks, is a relatively heavy car...
I could really feel it when I drive mine. Driving the sprinter feels a lot more agile if you know what I mean.
With the rx7, you have to use a different grade of oil, change the oil every 5k. Parts are unfortunately pretty steep. And working on it is a bit of a bitch if you dont have a manual..
But other than that, it's an awesome car... revvy as... turns a lot of heads... And if you warm her up, should be reliable as... excellent weight balance, cool handling, and quick as.
Heres mine... I bought it under 10k..
Hope you like it.
rock on.
[Updated on: Wed, 30 April 2003 10:32]
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Registered:
April 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 11:56
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I am this friend he has been talking about; looks like I have some explaining to do... (And remember, my opinons were asked for, I was not forcing them onto him or telling him what to do with his car, and I will admit, I am no guru and I probably wasn't the best person to ask, nor was I pretending to be).
1.) The reason an Aus spec sprinter was suggested was because I was under the impression that he was going to keep his Celica (at least for the time being). And the Sprinter was to be a buildup project to be kept off the road for the moment (I also suggested the engine alone would also cost around $1000 from an import wreckers, which I know is negligable due to huge price jump of late of RWD 4age engines due to their current popularity boost). I also thought that he wanted something different and "special". This car was thought of due to the fact that it was a Japanese cult car and supposeldy an incredibly neutral handler that did have potential, and not because it was a particularly good drift car.
2.) I did not call his car gay because It was FWD and couldn't drift, nor did I tell him he should be "fully sik Dorifting". However, I did originally call his car "gay", mostly when he first purchased the car, and yes I was ignorant. This was mainly due to me being influenced by the stigma that later model Celicas were "Hair dresser cars", I was under the allusion that that model was based on the camry floorpan. After reading around these forums, and after hearing outside advice later on, e.g. engine specs and the fact that that particular model's suspension tuning and geometrey was handled by Lotus (still not sure if that is true), It may have not been my first choice but you guys are right, downing someone else's pride and joy is very low, an FC RX-7 of approx series IV vintage was suggested (I am a fan of the FC myself), however it was quite reasonably turned down by my friend due to the fact that insurance would cost an absolute fortune, the fact that rotors aren't terribly economical on a day to day basis, and earlier rotors do have inherent reliability problems.
This "Gay" factor in my opinion was also influenced by the fact that there are a couple of cap backwards wankers that get around thinking that they are pretty hot stuff in Almost identical cars to my friend's vehicle.
3.) I have never engaged in "fully sik, cap backwards Dorifting", nor do I ever plan to on public roads. As I do realise that I as a driver am not skilled or experienced enough to partake in these activities. I am not under the wank illusion that I have "Race driver skills" an have not been doing "tailies in my mum's camry". I have seen a few episodes of Initial D, and did enjoy it but I do realize that it is only a cartoon. I do appreciate and admire real circut drift, but no more than other types of motorsport (I realize drifting is not motorsport in it's own right, but a name given to a set of techniques).
I am sorry to my friend and all you guys for sounding like a complete and total wank before, but perhaps you will reconsider.
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Registered:
April 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 12:01
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Oops, made a mistake, when I said
"After reading around these forums, and after hearing outside advice later on, e.g. engine specs and the fact that that particular model's suspension tuning and geometrey was handled by Lotus (still not sure if that is true)"
I meant to also add that my opinions have been swayed, and that i was just being a bit of a blind wank before being fed bullshit.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 12:03
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shcao, if i had a pen and could draw punched out cats, i would draw a punched out cat on the front of your car
is that a defective vehicle sticker on the windscreen?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Darwn
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 12:29
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woah booze! didnt mean to get u in trouble with the guys... when i talk about my 'friend' i am actually refering to a number of influencial people in my life - for the sake of the other people in the forum i have combined these people into one 'friend' so that they wont get horribly confused.
Ok, now i like my car and im gonna keep it, buuuuut...im still wanting to do-up/restore an (older?) car for a bit of a weekend project but im dammed if i know what car to choose! It want it to be well performing and look good and also simple (old) enough for me to actually pull to bits and work on. Anyone got any suggestions??? (this is where i thought about a sprinter but it seems these are really much better (perhaps worse) than my current celica)
Thanks again...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 30 April 2003 13:23
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That is one nice and neat rx7, series 4 right?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Thu, 01 May 2003 00:59
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| Plecostomus wrote on Wed, 30 April 2003 22:29 |
Ok, now i like my car and im gonna keep it, buuuuut...im still wanting to do-up/restore an (older?) car for a bit of a weekend project but im dammed if i know what car to choose!
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A Sprinter isn't a bad option, but frankly I think an older Celica is a better bang-for-your-buck proposition. They're simple as to work on, they have a bigger engine bay so there are more engine swap options available, and the chassis is much the same as a Sprinter so with appropriate upgrades it will handle just as good. It really comes down to personal preference though; some people prefer Sprinters, others prefer Celicas. An early RX7 isn't a bad option either!
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Thu, 01 May 2003 01:08
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I understand the reasons why some people might thing Sprinters are over priced. However. I was at Morgan Park race track last week in my 4AGZE Sprinter. I did about 15 laps in the car before jumping into a 2000 model WRX STI. After quite a few laps, I was only able to go under my Sprinter time by less than a second. Good value, I think so. Find me another car under $10k that can stay with an STI on the track.
Cal.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Thu, 01 May 2003 02:13
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Firstly, let me say that I LOVE old RWD Yotas like the Sprinter and the Celica-Supras and other Celicas. I allways thought of the St162 SX as a crappy looking FWD Camry0type car with a more sporty body shape. Like I say, I was pretty snobby and ran them down all the time.... Then my wife bought one a couple of years ago ($5.5K, manual 3SGE, mint condition).
I take it ALL back. These are really well built, well designed cars that have a great feel to them and loads of low-down torque. Her car sh*ts all over me if we race (me in 6 clinder 2.8l auto Supra). After about 200,000 k's, the last engine died and we dropped a new 3SGE in (later model engine too!). Parts are readily available from Toyota and wreckers and it's a relatively easy car to work on.
You've got a great little car there mate - FWIW, I'd put some of your $4K into modding it - for power or appearance (yeah, they are fairly common). BUT, make sure you get good advice on perfoprmance mods - talk to some of the list members who have worked their 3SGE's. I looked into doing a few little tweaks to the wifes car - but one of the problems is that these things were so damn well built in the factory that there aren't a whole lot of cheap mods for easy power gains.
Enjoy!
- Justin
JZA-61 in progress
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Thu, 01 May 2003 08:49
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Yeah, it's a series 4...
It's got a series 5 bar, and factory bodykit...
And it's got the jdm savanna tail lights...
Peace
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Thu, 01 May 2003 09:45
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Static - alls cool - just dont disrespect the cillycar - ok 
* grin *
Everyone - and some inside the toyo community will always call the celica a hairdressers car ( hell my gt4 comes with its own blowdrier * turbo * ) Until they actually get behind the wheel and see its very underrated for bang for bucks
Admittedly the ra 60's and 65's looks didnt help much in the way of image - but as cars like narks ra60 show - with a heart transplant and a bit of spanner spinning - even they can be hella sleepers
As for doig up an old schooler - Sprinters are still a possibility - or you can adopt another celica into the house - Those classic lines are timeless - and still look GREAT after 25 + years
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Location:
Melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Thu, 01 May 2003 16:48
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Everyone's been saying 4 grand. But didn't he say he would have that much to buy a sprinter, then if he sells the celica he'd have a ball park figure of 7 grand more?
I think that's definitely enough to get past the overal specs of the celica. The celica is definitely a great car tho, but just in my opinion, if I took the car further ahead with quite a few mods, I'd go the sprinter.
But go the GZE if you want to be quicker than the celica in a straight line.
Also just remember how heavy gt4's are. So it's up to you if u're after straight line speed or handling. Also rwd and fwd.
What's left I guess is just that the sprinter is the older car, and also the point about finding a decent car and parts.
If I'm wrong, and look totally stupid, it's coz this damn thread was too long and I just started to skip thru a lot of the posts 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Thu, 01 May 2003 22:44
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y'know u want a rx7 or an old skool celica! hahahaha...
but lil mic does have a point, and a sprinter with a gze is hard to top...
PEACE
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Fri, 02 May 2003 09:58
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Only last week i think there was an 'unfinished project' st162 with a 3sgte in it for only 3 grand or so. I checked just then and it's not up anymore. If it didn't sell, maybe someone else has the link and you could get in contact with the owner (if you wanted to go this way)
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Mon, 05 May 2003 23:59
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One simple solution:
Use that 7K and search high and low for a 4AGZE powered Sprinter with suspension mods and OK body, with that money there are plenty of examples, it's just a matter of finding them.
You'll never look back to Celica's once you turn the key of a 'blown' sprinter.
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Location:
Perth - Cannington
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Tue, 06 May 2003 00:17
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ok, i wanna clear up something for your mate here
not all RD cars can drift, as was said before.. commonbores are a prime example of a "please dont break me drifting" car.
HOWEVER.. you CAN (thats right people), you can drift FWD cars..
and its not too hard either..
so i would blame his belief on that, as was said before, on inital D fever
if you dont believe it can be done, ill try to find one of my videos of me drifting a FWD and send you it... mind you ill have to ask my mates for it... thats a no guarantee..
but you can drift a FWD... unless its auto too.. then you really do have a sad car for drifting
anyhow..
Keep your car man.. its better, because its newer and you dont need another 4k on it to make it match up to yours.
oh, and prettymuch everything written in shcao's drifting post is right too
Peace
Katsuchiyo
[Updated on: Tue, 06 May 2003 00:22]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Tue, 06 May 2003 06:20
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I'd say 7k is a bit hopeful for a hardcore setup gze. I've tried looking, and they are about the 10k mark.
But if your heart is set on a sprinter, if you can sell your car for the 7k, save up a few more gs, and you'll have enough to buy an awesome sprinter.
Cars like Mr 20vs sprinter, and lilmics trueno are fine examples of fully done up 86s at that price range. Or even Aarons sprinter for sale at the moment. I personally believe buying like this is way better than building up a stocky (ecnomically), and waaaaaaaay better than importing a JDM (questionable vehicle condition).
ROCK ON.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Tue, 06 May 2003 06:30
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| katsuchiyo wrote on Tue, 06 May 2003 10:17 |
not all RD cars can drift, as was said before.. commonbores are a prime example of a "please dont break me drifting" car.
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Bollocks. Drifting is all about driving technique; the car has relatively little to do with it. You can drift practically any car given the right conditions and enough skill! Hell, I've seen a talented driver drifting a stock diesel Nissan Urvan. That was damn funny, but also an impressive display of car control.
Commodores can be drifted if you're brave enough, but it gets a little scary... especially when it's a 13 second VL (experience talking here).
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 07 May 2003 05:09
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Why does any discussion about AE86's have to become one more string of babble about "drifting"????? 
You're right Norbie, just about anything can be drifted, trucks and buses included!!!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 07 May 2003 06:40
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Initial D has a lot to answer for on that one.
As for Hair dresser cars, my brother used to have an MX5 (gen 1) it was absolutely fantastic around mountains and stuck to the road like you wouldn't believe, its just rather sad that a lot of people couldn't see past the "cutesey" look.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 07 May 2003 06:43
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don't suppose anyone here has seen a guy called "NoPSI" drifting his toyota hilux around (equipped with a GT17)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 07 May 2003 07:45
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You don't mean Craig by any chance? NoPSI or HiPSI ... I keep on confusing the two but he used to own a Trueno AE86 I believe which has since moved on down to Melbourne.
Yes ... I have even seen Commodores drifting or attempting to. I must admit it looks rather bizarre to see one go sideways as it looks unnatural but they do drift.
Some of the import boys over at Moorooka always have a drift display with a video playing of their drift days. It's like the Aussie version of drifting - no Silvia's or AE86's, only Commodores and ***GASP!*** Gemini's going sideways!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: What car to get? A sprinter perhaps? Help...
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Wed, 07 May 2003 07:57
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Yeah Craig thats him I can't believe he sold his Sprinter/Trueno. Still he looks like he's having fun with a turbo'd hilux. I'm still not sure why he's on the daihard board.
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