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Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What cars came with a 4x114.3 hub?
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Sun, 25 May 2003 12:58
 
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Hmmm... if you want to keep your 14" rims, I can't see you getting huge improvements over the stock brakes. The only real problem with MA61 brakes is the rotors are too small, but if you want to get them much bigger you'll need bigger wheels to fit them in.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: What cars came with a 4x114.3 hub?
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Sun, 25 May 2003 13:30
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THis is true, but im sure there are improvements to be made through alternative calipers.
From a search through the entire DBA catalogue i have found this out:
MA61 Front rotor (vented)
Diameter: 258mm
Height: 26mm
Thickness: 20mm
Center Hole: 76mm
Now ive found the following which are similar:
Nissan Nomad GC 22 Van 1986-93 (vented)
Diameter: 250mm
Height: 30mm
Thickness: 22mm
Center Hole: 73mm
Ford Capri SA, SC, SE Convertible (Turbo models) 89-94
Ford Laser KE 2wd & 4wd Turbo 87-90
(share the same rotor)
Diameter: 260mm
Height: 32mm
Thickness: 18mm
Center Hole: 75mm
Now the question is, how much better or worse will the brakes be on these cars? and ill have to find out if they have 114.3 PCD.
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I supported Toymods
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Registered:
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: What cars came with a 4x114.3 hub?
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Sun, 25 May 2003 14:22
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Never thought of that dave!
hmmmm...doh means i gotta go back through the catalogue!
there doesnt seem to be an awfully large amoutn of clearance betweenthe stock caliper and rim though?
I would have thought brakes off the 94 turbo capri would be alright and perhaps better than the supra, then again maybe not.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: What cars came with a 4x114.3 hub?
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Mon, 26 May 2003 00:17
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Here are a few more options, taking Dave's advice, ive ignored the PCD and based this upon rotor diameter and the height of the hub.
Ford Courier 2.6L 4WD 87-98
Diameter: 272
Height: 25
Thickness: 22
Center Hole: 93
Holden Jackaroo Monterey UB 3.5L ABS 98+
Diameter: 280
Height: 36
Thickness: 26
Center Hole: 87.5
Lotus Elise (YUM)
Diameter: 280
Height: 29.3
Thickness: 26
Center Hole: 56.6
Mazda 4wd B Series (B200D, B220D, BB260D) 85-96
Diameter: 272
Height: 25
Thickness: 22
Center Hole: 93
Peugeot 306 N5 Series 1 GTi-6 97-99
Diameter: 283
Height: 27.5
Thickness: 22
Center Hole: 66
Peugeot 406 97+
Diameter: 283
Height: 28.2
Thickness: 26
Center Hole: 66
Volkswagon Golf VR6
Diameter: 280
Height: 28.2
Thickness: 22
Center Hole: 65
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 01:41
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Early Falcons had 287mm rotors under 14" rims? Where did the caliper go???
Wow. I have 266mm rotors on mine (unvented) and I have very little space between caliper and wheel, and my calipers aren't exactly huge or anything...
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I supported Toymods
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 02:15
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Ultimately, the size rotor one can fit under a wheel depends on a few things:
- rotor height
- wheel offset
- wheel construction/diameter, and
- caliper profile.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 02:24
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Dave, haven't caught you on ICQ lately, so I'll leave it here.
How does this sound?
DBA Slotted rotors for a Lotus Elise
280mm diameter, 26mm thick, overall height very close to Mk2 Supra
Only $116 each from Autospeed too.
VT Commodore onwards 2-piston calipers
Cheap, common, more effective than MA61 and can fit the thicker disc.
Rear use factory brakes, just make sure they're in good condition.
DOT5.1 fluid and then see how the bias is. Sound ok? I was thinking about this for a cheap solution for bigger brakes that'd have no problems fitting under a 15" wheel.
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I supported Toymods
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I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 06:00
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Hmm, reckon they'd give one up?
It was just a thought, I'm going to get a set of new DBA Slotted rotors, some decent pads and bleed the brakes with some DOT5.1 brake fluid. Should be good enough for the street, but if anyone comes up with another good budget fluid, i'm all ears.
BTW, anyone recommend a good pad for the Mk2 calipers?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 06:36
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I'm pretty happy with my EBC pads so far. Greenstuff on the front and Blackstuff on the rear (that's all they had available).
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 10:55
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Frankie,
I just put some new DBA slotted rotors on the front and flushed completely with 2 bottles of 5.1 Motul. I'm using Metal king pads.
It didn't really help!
I'm all ears for a brake upgrade option 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:10
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I'm listening too!
the stockers are adequate. just.
stopping from anything more than 50km/hr, I'm not at all happy with them. which is unfortunate considering how often I am doing more than 50km.hr
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:14
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I've been thinking about this, are both of you intent on keeping the 14" MA61 wheels? As GT once described before, they have a very small X-factor meaning the the brakes fill a lot of the rim even though they aren't that big.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:18
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I'm keeping it for a while
but if it means fitting bigger brakes, I'd be happy to get some 16's
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:21
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Once the assignments are over, I'll have another look. I don't wanna go any bigger than 15's, so I'll see what I can dig up.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:42
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I did some hunting around and it seemed that if i could get DBA rotors for a Ford econovan with no center hole drilled or for the studs, one could have the rotor to fit under the rim (i hoped)
the rotor is 275mm but is the same thickness, so you could use the stock caliper if it was relocated on a new fabricated bracket.
it was purely an issue of clearance then. There is about 10mm between the caliper and rim, but the caliper sits right on the lip of the wheel where it becomes a little smaller upon the internal diameter. This could be resolved by the fact that the height of the econvan rotor was 7mm taller, thus pushing the rotor face back from the lip, giving more clearance.
Supposedly, 'frankie' in talks with the DBA fella on PF.com found out that the center holes are pre drilled.
Ive sent them an email to confirm this, but if it fits under the rim with the stock calipers we may be able to convince them to do a custom line run?
Anyways, it was just a thought.
P.S econovan rotors also come in the slotted variant
[Updated on: Mon, 26 May 2003 11:45]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:43
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I'd be wanting more surface contact from my calipers.
otherwise I wouldn't be bothering with a new rotor
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:48
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The bigger rotor will aid in cooling a little bit.
However i see your point, but we are severly kicking ourselves in the ass saying we want brembo braking power under a 14inch rim.
Alternatively, by running through the DBA catalogue one can find which rotors are 20mm thick and then utilise those calipers.
Unless we go 15 or 16inch, we are pretty limited.
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I supported Toymods
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:51
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From what I can remember, you guys have a bit of inboard space. I suspect what you guys are going to need to do is run a fairly tall rotor so that you can fit a big rotor/caliper combo under your restrictive wheels. Try and find a slimline caliper if at all possible - this will help enormously.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:53
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Tall rotor? 
Do tell Dave.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 11:59
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Something with a big hat dude. And Dave, you were right about the Lotus discs being too flimsy.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 12:10
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Ah ok, that was the 'lip' on the wheel i was talking about, the inboard space gains almost gains 20mm in diamter i beleive from a rough guess lacking measureent equipment.
Thats was hopefully solved by the 7mm taller econovan rotor
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 13:37
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Ok, heres the best option so far.
Mercedes Benz A Class Rotor from a A190.
Diameter: 276mm
Height: 36mm
Thickness: 22mm
Center Hole: 67mm
This means the height is 11mm taller, which should clear the lip in the rim easily.
The bolt hole which will be drilled can be machined out to the stock 76mm.
The rotor is 2mm thicker now so another 'slimline' caliper will be required.
Alright, so how does one go about sourcing a slimline caliper for a 22mm disc?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 13:51
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im wayyy to drunk atm to get into thisk, but suffice to say: if youre going to the effort to make a custom caliper adapter and custom rotor mounts etc, just bite the friggin bullet, and go 315mm+, big 4 spots and larger rims. for the effort/reward. i say screw it , and do it properly....
screw the fucking around for the 20mm dia gains and maybe 1 extra piston... go 50-60mm gains and 4 piston!!!
in the end, save up the cash, ita babout the same effort, and you get MASSIVE performance increase...
ed
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 22:03
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me fail english, thats umpossable... 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 22:42
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LOL @ Ed 
He's right though. If you're going to all this effort, you might as well go all the way. Those big Wilwood rotors Ed was looking at aren't expensive, in fact they're cheaper than the slotted DBA rotors I bought not long ago!
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I supported Toymods
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I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Mon, 26 May 2003 23:46
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Exactly, wheels are a one off cost. If you are going to the trouble of doing a big brake upgrade and spending $40 on brake fluid every time you do a bleed, don't you want decent tyres too?
Save up and get some brakes that you can be confident will work MUCH better than what's there now. I'd be aiming for 300 mm as a MINIMUM. Any less and I think you'd be wasting money and time.
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 09:31
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It may be difficult for some to understand but I don't want to get rid of the factory 14's. I think they're awesome and very important to the look of the classic Supra. Therefore it's important for me and a few others who don't want to hack up the car to keep it looking as standard as possible, ie keep the wheels.
Why not a 2 or 4 spot Nissan caliper with bigger pad surface area?? Or something along those lines?
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 10:18
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Im in the same boat as paul, i love the stock rims and im in no such way able to afford the only mag wheel i would put on the supra: Simmons OM17's.
So without upgrading the $3000 rims or converting to 5 stud (which has anyone completed yet??) my rims aren't getting any bigger.
Im just trying to get decent brakes under the stock rims.
Yes i know, its a big investment for a small gain, but:
A) the limitation is the 14inch rim
b) i cant afford the rims required to fit the brakes
c) anything bigger will be better than stock
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 10:25
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Is anyone here using brake ducting on their road cars?
If set up right it can be quite beneficial and you can minimise the amount of water sprayed onto the rotors in the wet. It will wear you pads and rotors faster due to the dust and dirt etc sprayed onto the rotors. Also very CHEAP.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 11:39
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Is there any real problem in cutting out the stone guard behind the disc? I've seen it done on several race and rally cars, with with the amount of dirt thrown up by rally cars...
What's the best way to build ducting to the discs?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 11:40
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how wide are those simmons 17's?
I would not want any less than 8" if I was buying a new rim (especially at that price).
admittedl;y I love the stock rims, but in terms of handling and brakes, I'm willing to sacrifice it (and increase the stealability of the car)
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 11:56
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Your choice of:
17x6 -> 17x10 inches
I wouldd go black centers of course
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 12:06
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and the 17x10 fit on the supra?
that's a bit of a pain. Ideally I'd *love* 17x8 on the front and 17x10 on the back (well, I'd prefer 16s, but beggars cant be choosers)
10" on the front is too big, and 6" on the front is definitly too small
or does the -> mean they do everything in between?
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 12:12
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everything in between my friend
and yes 16x6 -> (to) 16x10 in the same designs
17x8, 17x9 Simmons OM custom wheels. 10mm offset front, 0mm offset rear.
http://www.celicasupra.com/images/river3.jpg
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 12:18
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I think I just made a mess in my pants.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Tue, 27 May 2003 13:13
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Would you like some tissues?
Ok how does this sound
Mercedes A class A190 Disc with Mazda RX7 Series 4 N/A calipers
ill have to see how they measure up
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Wed, 28 May 2003 00:47
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Norbie,
If you don't mind me asking, how much the EBC pads cost you?
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Wed, 28 May 2003 01:03
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And a product number would also be tops
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Wed, 28 May 2003 01:52
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To be honest I have no idea, I bought them ages ago... I'll see if I can dig up a receipt when I get home. They weren't cheap from memory.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Wed, 28 May 2003 01:55
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That'd be great if you can. Wasn't expecting them to be cheap, but based on the EBC site, and how I drive, I reckon I can get away with changing them once a year, not as if my car is going to see any track work. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Wed, 28 May 2003 06:02
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that is the sexiest ma61 I have ever seen
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Thu, 29 May 2003 05:30
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excellent
the simmons actually come in 15" to 18" diameter, and up to 13" wide.
a set of 16" with tires cost around $3500.. which will do me nicely.
when I looked on that website you posted, I saw US$3100 as the price tag, and that was a BIG turnoff. but since it looks like only being that in AU$, I can handle it
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Registered:
August 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Fri, 30 May 2003 03:02
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 28 May 2003 10:47 |
Norbie,
If you don't mind me asking, how much the EBC pads cost you?
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Bah! I've looked through my entire stack of receipts and other crap (took me all night) and couldn't find it. 
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Sat, 31 May 2003 14:00
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I think you have used the DBA catalog in a wrong way and been mis-led a bit. With 14" wheels, you have to keep the disks you have. You would only get a adavnatage with new disks if they where thicker, and then you would need the matching calipers, and both disk and caliper converion plates. You best keep your brakes and get better pads. Also, maybe new slotted rotors from DBA, to suit RA60.
Or you can use 4wd HiLux 4 spot calipers on your original disks. With RA60 and hilux disks are 20mm thick, so the hilux 4spots can be used on the RA60 disks. This is what I am doing, not finnished yet. A converion plate may be needed. Not sure of the performace difference yet.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brake rotor/caliper asembly to fit under MA61 wheels
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Sat, 31 May 2003 15:08
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No, he hasn't used it wrong, he was looking for a rotor that was a larger size that would still fit under the 14" rim.
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13inches wide, id like to see traction lost with them!