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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sat, 07 June 2003 13:42
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heya...
the top end of the ol girl has this really pronounced, course, harmonic, rattling tap in it... kind of like a tappet thats out of spec, but much 'heavier'. this has been shitting me up the wall, though i suspect its just cause the old donk is getting old.
it is most obvious in a 'neutral' power situation, ie in gear, when youre cruising at speed, and *just* lift off the loud pedal - just so youre not providing power, but arent compression braking either. its a tiny little piece of pedal area where the engine is perfectly paced to road speed - a no-load situation i guess.
anyway, its most obvious around say 3000 rpm.
upon closer inspection, it seems to be coming from the front of the timing cover (cyl # 1 or #2, or the timing gear).
now ive gone and done the following:
-reset all tappets to tolerance
-tightened all valve train fasteners
-replaced and retesioned the timing chain tensioner bolt.
-new oil with lucas additive
none of the above really fixed it, though i think adding the lucas oil stabiliser made it little quieter. all the other attempts did very little.
so im down to:
-the timing chain has sretched beyond hope
-the timing chain nylon vibation dampers (??) are fubar
-the rocker arms are virating on the rockers shafts
-the rocker arms are sliding up and down the rocker shafts in a harmonc fashion against the locator springs.
ayone have any other ideas?
none of the above strike me as potentially fatal - just annoying. anyone have any thoughts on this? im cruising around far western NSW at the moment, and the noise is a little unnerving i the middle of nowhere. im not too keen on spending cashola on the 5m, but am wondering if theres anything serious i should consider??
cheers
ed
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sat, 07 June 2003 15:11
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My old 5M had similar symptoms when one of the big ends started to let go. Death followed shortly after. 
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sat, 07 June 2003 21:17
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I agree with Norbie it could be bigend bearings or piston pins
Trevor
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sat, 07 June 2003 23:32
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Knock knock.
who's there?
Big end noise.
Big end noise who?
Time to drop in that 7MGE.
Yep that doesn't make sense, but like the others, I suspect it's the start of some big end dramas. Of course it's pretty hard to work out without hearing it.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sun, 08 June 2003 03:05
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no, no no.... bad bad, dont say that!! big end BAD - bad bad bad...
i have to say though, i dont think its a big end noise. ive driven 2 5m's with dud big ends and it sounded different. the big end noise was more of a 'knock', and eminated from the block.
what im hearing is more like a 'nasty' tappet rattle that seems to kick it at a resonant frequency. and im pretty sure its localised to the front of the timing cover...
bloody well better NOT be big end bearing. im driving the donk to melb in 3 weeks - she had better make it there - and back! lets not talk about driving it up to bourke...
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sun, 08 June 2003 03:14
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Well, if you make it here and it's stuffed, I know where there is a 5MTE that needs to be run in....and I have a new engine crane!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sun, 08 June 2003 03:30
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oh deniz would love that!!
hi sweetie! im off to daves to play cars for the day... oh, what are we doing? just turboing my car.... dont worry, ill take you shopping tomorrow...
seriously though - ny ideas o the noise? or is BEB the best you can come up with 
cheers
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sun, 08 June 2003 03:51
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oh, i should add, its been making this noise for well over 6 months, and hasnt gotten any worse in this time.
i remember maybe a year ago, it used to make this noise when cold (still at only 3k rpm) in the morning, but would go away pretty quickly.
maybe the water pump?
fan is out of balance?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sun, 08 June 2003 04:10
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errr, no?  
she was cruising effortlesly yesterday around the back of Coonabarabran @ 155kmh. have i ever mentioned i LOVE country roads 
and before anyone ear bashes me for being irresponsible, you can see for MILES on these roads, and everyone slows down for each other when cars pass...
but yeah, she doesnt make a single sound 'on song'...
though i might stop revving her out around here, or atleast until i figure out whats wrong.
cheers
ed
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Location:
bris
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Sun, 08 June 2003 09:16
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piston slap?
i havn't had any experience on 5m... i'm just a post whore
you can tell from my insane post count
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Mon, 09 June 2003 08:13
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Hmm the only thing I can suggest is maybe the Idler Pulley for the Timing chain. The tensioner itself might not be stuffed but the idler pulley is only made out of plastic and mine was f#$% when i pulled it out yet wasn't making noise. Maybe there is very little left of yours and its not giving enough tension / direction to the chain at lite load conditions? (I have seen one at the wreckers with NO teeth left on it)
Cheers
Wilbo
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Mon, 09 June 2003 08:28
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If you can find an original M motor from 1965/66, the idler pulley was actually metal! God knows why they went to that shitty plastic one.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Mon, 09 June 2003 08:38
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yeah, is too suspect its something to do with the timing chain, either the idler pulley or those nylon guides that are in there. that plus or minus the chain itself being stretch.
have to admit though, these guys have put the fear of god into me re: BEB !!
bastards...
fwiw- i played with a few things tody, and can confirm its NOT the water pump.
cheers
ed
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Tue, 10 June 2003 02:20
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My BEB dramas started out as a rattle which I assumed was the timing chain, and it was like that for months. Late it developed into a tapping which I assumed was tappets. Not long after it became a knocking, shortly followed by a loud banging, and then I couldn't drive it any more. Sorry to spook you, but the description you provided sounded very familiar.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Tue, 10 June 2003 02:44
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I have had one of each....a dramatic one (sudden rod out the side - 6000+ rpm on old oil with tired 4M - my own fault) and a slow gradual one which became much louder (old rattly smoky 2M - inevitable).
Sounds like you've been caning the old girl so my suspicion is that's what you have done.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Tue, 10 June 2003 02:47
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oh damn [/disgruntled]
this is making me think twice about ass hauling it to melb in the next 3 weeks (and back)... i need the 5m to keep working for at least a few more months whilst i finish the 7m
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5M Timing/Valve Train Rattle
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Tue, 10 June 2003 02:51
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ok...
so is there anything i can do as a last ditch preventative thing that may give the bottom end some extra life? oil additives? keeping the revs down? etc etc??
cheers
ed
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