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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
June 2002
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1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Mon, 09 June 2003 11:35
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took the car for its first drive after the conversion yesturday and when i accelerate it comes outa vacuume and just sits on 0 PSI.. but when i let of the pedal the BOV goes of... so the turbos are spooling but the air isnt getting to the motor
checked all the pipes and theres no air leaking any where.... any ideas?
btw the boost guage was hooked up to the plenum... but its defently not spooling cause u cant feel it pull hard. could the computer have any thing to do with it no alowing air to enter the cylinders?... i also have a malpassi fuel regulator if that could be part of the problem...
i also ran the turbos with out wastegates and still nothing but the BOV going of when i let of... its really got me stumped
any ideas would be great...
thanks
Pete
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 01:51
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You've got a big air leak somewhere. Double-check your intercooler piping, and pay special attention to any rubber hoses which may have split. These things can be difficult to find sometimes, but if you give the engine a good rev with your head in the engine bay you should be able to hear the air rushing out.
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 03:00
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i agree with norbie but if this were the case u should here a hissing sound... when on boost, also check to see if the clamps are on nice a tight thats another one that could get u cought out!
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 09:04
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well i pulled all the piping of and every pipe was on very very tight... no gaps on the hoseing or any thing.
so any ways... i look into the pipes... and theres a shit load of metal shavings from when they cut the pipes.... the dick heads who did the conversion didnt clean the pipes out after they cut them. so i took the cooler out... shook it around a little and lots of metal was coming out... *freaks*
so i cleaned all the pipes out and the cooler is going to get flushed or what ever can be done to clean it out. the plenum seems clean of metal so im just hoping that the motor is ok now :\
time will tell now... 
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 09:23
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Oh my god!! You could have a stuffed 1j on your hands! What morons, that's why I prefer to do things myself. They're done properly everytime.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 09:46
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Are u 100% sure that the shavings havent gone through to the engine ??
Check it out thoroughly and get the place u got the work done pay for any damage
do it ASAP cause as time goes on they are less likely to act
Ta
Mani
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 13:52
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Holy crap, you're kidding??
Don't start your engine again until you've pulled the head off and checked for damage. Don't even crank it over! Even a tiny speck of metal could do permanent damage if it finds its way inside the engine. 
I assume you're going to have VERY stern words with the owner of the workshop responsible for this...
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 14:11
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Oh no 
I only hope there is no damage.
My motor had bits of metal go though it when it was in japan (Yes Importer is replacing it).
This is what it looked like;
First we took off the exhaust and turbos, and found this, the cause of it not boosting.
First we though it was just a failed turbo, then in this light new something had gone though it taking out the ceramic blades.
It was metallic..
So we took the head off as the compression was 70,75,135,180,180,180. What we found was this.
and this
This would have been the result of metal "bits" going though the engine. No idea what caused this as I got it DOA.
Best of luck with it, if the metal filings have gone though the engine and taken out the turbos then I would be looking at getting them to pay for a new engine and legal action if need be.
[Updated on: Tue, 10 June 2003 14:15]
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Tue, 10 June 2003 14:19
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if you want to find if the metal findings have passed through your engine try pulling your cat converter off and have a look in there.
If you find metal fillings in there then there is a good chance youre turbos will be stuffed, Thats probably the least of your worries though.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Wed, 11 June 2003 08:28
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Those pictures are very disturbing
i havnt had a very good run with the guys who did the conversion... so i know exactly whats going to happen.. there going to say.. the motor must have been like that from the front cut.
there so damn shonky with there work but they work on some of the fastest cars on the coast... i dont know why they would do something like this to me... just thinking about it pisses me of.
nearly all the work they did for the conversion, ive pulled of and out and put it back in.. took me 3 days with about 8-9 hours per day working on my car to get it in running order becuase they were so incompetant. and now this.
im not goin to name the work shop in here but if any one would like to know then i can tell them over pm.
/rant
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Wed, 11 June 2003 12:40
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Guys, I have a motor that looks very similar to that, except the entire compressor wheel was missing. What happened is that bits of the turbo wheel were sucked back through the exhaust valves into the engine. Only the three cylinders connected to that turbo had damage. There is no way that anything coming through the single input could have caused that damage on my motor. It would have killed all 6.
Symptoms were the same. No boost. Turbos still whistled. What was happening is that the boost was being made in the front turbo, and going out through the rear one, as it was not being driven by the exhaust. I pulled the intakes off, and both impellers were turning, but I didn't twig that one was going the wrong way.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Wed, 11 June 2003 12:52
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It's impossible for debris from the exhaust to enter the engine via the exhaust valves.
It's interesting to note that Wastegate's engine only had major damage on the first three cylinders. I'm guessing that the debris gets sucked into those cylinders before it has time to reach the last three... remember that metal filings are much heavier than air.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 12 June 2003 09:36
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Norbie, I disagree 100 per cent with you. My engine did a rear turbo, and the rear three cylinders were full of shit. The heads looked like they had been hit with a meat tenderiser where they come in close proximity with the pistons. From the looks, I would guess the bits were about the size of brown sugar. I am betting that in the case above, the front turbo has died. There is no other way that the engine is split in two banks of 3 cylinders except by the exhaust manifold. I also do not belief that the intercooler would still be alive if there was chunks of metal going through it.
Have a look at
http://www.users.bigpond.com/jbrough/lakes/2004%20 preparations/index.html
for a pic of my head and cylinders. It only shows the rear 4 cyls, but you can clearly see that number 2 has no damage at all. There is also a pic of the turbo which is completly missing the wheel.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 12 June 2003 10:59
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I fail to see how there could ever be vacuum when the exhaust valves are open, unless you're running huge cams with HEAPS of overlap. Stock cams have very little (if any) overlap.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 12 June 2003 11:08
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Well of course if the first turbo blows a compressor wheel and it then goes back through the engine to the other turbo it will stuff the motor! What norbie was saying is that even if you exhaust wheel goes it can't find its way back into the motor to do any damage.
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 12 June 2003 11:20
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I can't see any other way that you could kill 3 cylinders only. If it was coming through the inlet, all the cylinders would be dead. I reckon the exhaust must pulse or something.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 12 June 2003 11:36
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Don't forget that it has to run up along the inlet manifold to get to the rear cylinders in the 1JZGTE. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this is the cause.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Fri, 13 June 2003 04:30
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This is VERY interesting.. I think there are still some fragments on the piston so I test with a hammer on these fragments and see if they are made of ceramic or not. If they are then I would have no idea on how the turbine shattered (didn't even see above 1psi boost) and then the bits went up stream agaist exhaust gas, though the manifold into the cylinders.. But it certainy looks like yours is VERY similar to the damage on mine.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Sun, 15 June 2003 04:33
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Impossible, there isn't ever any drawback from the exhaust back into the engine.
A 2.5lt engine doing 5000rpm is a shitload of air being pushed out the exhaust and with a turbo doing 80,000rpm there wouldn't be a chance.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Sun, 15 June 2003 10:07
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Guys, there is no other explanation for an engine with two turbos, each having three cylinders, destroying only the three cylinders that are connected to a dead turbo. The exhaust wheel is missing from the rear turbo, and the rear three cylinders have scored bores, and heads that look like mince meat. The inlet side of the turbo is still intact. There is no possible way that any of the exhaust wheel could cross over to the inlet side.
There is no other possible explanation. The exhaust valve is the only link between a turbo exhaust wheel and the cylinder. To cross over to the intake side of the turbo, the debris would have to pass between the shaft and the bearings. This gap is only a few thousands of an inch, and is filled with the lubricating oil. Whilst I agree that the engine is pumping out a lot of gas, it is not a continous stream. It is only being expelled every second revolution in bursts. The gas flow out of the exhaust port must therefore stop between revolutions.
I can see that I am having a hard time convincing you guys, but I do not belive that there is any other explanation.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Sun, 15 June 2003 13:11
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| jbrough wrote on Sun, 15 June 2003 20:07 |
The gas flow out of the exhaust port must therefore stop between revolutions.
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Yes it does stop... when the valve is closed! I can't see any debris getting past a closed valve though. Remember the cylinder pressure is very high when the exhaust valve opens.
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I can see that I am having a hard time convincing you guys, but I do not belive that there is any other explanation.
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I agree it's difficult to explain, but the scenario you describe still seems to defy my understanding of how an engine works...
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Wed, 18 June 2003 10:48
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just to clear things up
the intercooler had 80g of aliminum shavings
both turbos are now stuffed
not happy jan
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Wed, 18 June 2003 23:36
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Just to clarify the issue as to wether particles can make their way from the exhaust into the cyls, in short-yes it is quite possible-especially on later model EFI motors.
To explain-
On trailing throttle with the butterfly closed, you have max engine vacuum.
The sequence is
Intake valve opens, piston travels down the bore.
As the throttle is closed, very little air passes into the cyl. (man vac usually over 25 inches of Hg)
Note also that if an efi vehicle uses deceleration fuel cut off, no fuel will be injected at this point.
Intake valve closes, piston travels up the bore.
As there very little air in the cyl in the first place, no pressure is generated (in-fact at the top of the compression stroke the pressure is equivalent to the vacuum in the manifold.)
Power stroke-piston travels down bore-(remember that there is full vacuum at the start of the power stroke)
There is NO combustion, and so at the completion of the stroke (bottom dead centre or so) the vacuum is still present.
The exhaust valve opens, and air in the exhaust manifold RUSHES INTO THE CYLINDER, carrying with it bits of crap from the exhaust manifold. As the piston travels back up the cylinder the air is shoved back out again. This sequence is repeated whilst the car is on trailing throttle with decel cut-off.
Also consider the shape of the turbo, and that is that the shattered bits of the exhaust wheel will be sitting in the outside of the snail as when the explosion occurs the bits are flung outward by centrifugal force-and are not blown out the back of the blower. (they will eventually al get blown out but, but some may remain-waiting to be sucked back into the cylinder. This explains why the cyls associated with the turbo are damaged.) Also consider that when a turbo blows-what do you do? You get off the gas pretty quickly………
The shape of the turbo manifold can also make the path of debris easier-and the 1JZ manifold being stubbly and mid mount with the blowers very close to the cyls is a case in point. Long runner style manifolds make this scenario less likely, as do low-mount manifolds like those on the RB 30.
Also, with regard to the 0 psi-when the car was 'boosting', the damaged blower would have been flowing air OUT the intake.
As I have said before a vehicle with decel fuel cut off is most likely to experience the above scenario. In this particular case I'm unsure of how the blower was blown to begin with-most likely it was buggered when it was installed into the car. If it didn't boost up the first instant it was driven, the blower was probably already damaged.
Condolences mate. Go get them tiger. That really sucks.
Sean
Adelaide
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Location:
Osama's hideout
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 19 June 2003 00:00
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quick question.
where is every one purchasing their halfcut or engines.
my half cut had a stuffed box.
other people who purchased from the same importer have had problems
stuffed radiators 3
stuffed boxes 1
stuffed engines 3
stuffed turbos 8
just interested to see if maybe there is a common theem from a few places.
i fully understand there is luck of the draw, but if a place advertises warranty they must live up to it. i did get another box after several calls to department of fair trading. but the other guys had no luck.
please post and let me know
thanks guys
shane
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 19 June 2003 01:23
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I am getting quite scared about my engine now! although it has been compression tested at 180 in all cylinders!  i haven't got a boost gauge yet though but it certainly seemed like there was a shitload of air being pushed through the pipes as it was hard to keep them on.
feel sorry for you skidman Could you PM me who did the work on your car and where you got your front cut from? thanks man.
later
chris
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 19 June 2003 02:15
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MS-75: Thanks heaps that makes perfect sense. As most of the driving of the 500m was on trailing throttle or very little.
And I guess that the reason this doesn't happen offen is because when most people blow a turbo it's on WOT and therefore gets blowen down the exhaust and not sucked into the engine.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ-GTE not boosting?
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Thu, 19 June 2003 10:25
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i bought my jza70 front cut from
asian auto spares in slacks creek *brisbane*
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