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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
September 2002
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Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Mon, 16 June 2003 06:57
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I dont know that much about cars  but i can appreciate the look of tghe old TA22  I have one that i bought of another toymod member who had already done it up it has had a hybrid 2t/3t motor put into it. I was contemplating selling the car due to financial reason blah blah blah... but if i could get some more performance out of it i would definately hang onto it. So finally my question is if my car already has the 3t 1.8lt bottom end in it then would this make fitting the 3tgte into it alot easier. i understamd ill have to conect the efi and get someone to muck around with the wiring. but in theory should this conversion be relatively easy and cost efficient way of getting more power. Does anyone know how many rwkw a standard 3tgte make in a ta22 and how easy are they to extract power from (TARGET = somewhere in the area of 120rwkw??) Any help or suggestions on where to get advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Mon, 16 June 2003 07:23
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darlingc,
Fitting the 3TGTE into a TA22 is not to hard as far as conversions go but its not cheap if you cannot do alot/most of it yourself.
The 3T block won't make it any easier/harder than the 2T block would have. Converting from a Naturally Aspirated engine t a Turbo one involves alot of things. you have to make sure your fuel system and electricals are up to the job and of course your driveline.
You will not get 120RWKW from a stock unmoddified 3TGTE ! There is no such thing as cheap performance 
Do a search of the Forum for "3TGTE" you will find alot of info here already to help get you started.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Mon, 16 June 2003 12:19
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Stock 3T-GTE will pull around 100RWKW
the first thing ppl do to this engine is upgrade the turbo and whack on an intercooler as it doesnt come with an intercoooler stock
i reckon u can get 120rwkw easy from a bit of work
Thanx
Mani
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Tue, 17 June 2003 00:06
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Mani,
In stock form the 3TGTE is a great engine but its No neck snapping performer. The Factory specs claim 158HP@6000 RPM which equates to around 118kw. This is flywheel horsepower and the engines are getting old now so expect closer to 80 or maybe 90 RWKW form a stock one.
120 RWKW is well within the reach of a 3TGTE BUT you gotta throw some money at it. A front mount intercooler will allow a moderate increasein boost on the factory set up and this may well be enough to keep you happy.
After that its Forgies, Aftermarket ECU, Bigger Turbo and approriate manifold. ohh and bigger injectors.
Mind you there is nothing that says you have to do it all in one go 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Tue, 17 June 2003 10:10
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i agree its no neck snapping performer....
but r u sure about your RWKW figure ?
a co-workers mate has a TA23 with stock 3T_GTE and its been dynoed with 100RWKW.....but this is mint condition....had a rebuild 3 yrs ago i think
ive also heard of other examples around the 100RWKW figure
Thanx
Mani
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Tue, 17 June 2003 12:40
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not to be too narky, but i think many dyno places exagerate the figures....
also depends on which gear etc...
maybe get the co-workers mate to front up to the dyno day 
as an example check outhttp://www.fullboost.com.au/cars/featurecars/20 01/xe_jason/xe_jason25b.jpg
they claim 1400Nm at 3000rpm, and 300kw my calculations give 940Nm at that speed.
other wacky things are that the rpm figures quoted don't line up with points on the graph, and also that the torque and power curves are slightly misaligned...
this is a falcon 4.1 turb'd motor with 21Psi that runs 11's but i think 1400Nm is a bit optimistic (i calculate 920Nm max from that capacity and boost taking 100% efficiency)
fwiw, a good estimate of max power of an engine is to take 100Nm/L (since bikes get around that and are damn efficient) then multiply by your capacity, multiply by 1+ number of atmospheres above boost (ie 1atm boost is x2, 1.5bar boost is x2.5) since power is caluclated from torque, then plug ya rpm numbers into
Nm = (9402 x kw) / rpm
or
kw = (Nm x rpm) / 9402
so then
kw = (engine size x 100 x (1+ boost) x rpm) / 9402
where engine size is in litres, boost is in Bar or atm)
and Nm = engine size x 100 x (1+ boost)
you can then divide by your expected losses to get expected RWkw
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Tue, 17 June 2003 12:59
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just wondering who you purchased the car from???
justin
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Wed, 18 June 2003 00:09
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Mani,
RWKW figures really are just a guide. Unfortunatly its a common practive for Dyno opperaters to dyno cars in a manner that yields higher than "actual" figures.
158 FWHP is what Toyota publish as the engine output and you should expect a 30-35% drive train loss on an older RWD. That puts the "expected" figure at around 82 RWKW. (118 KW less 30%)
Alot of Dyno places will Dyno cars in 3rd gear which gives a higher reading due to the car not being at a 1:1 gearing ratio. The dyno's themselves are all adjustable to show higher or lower figures. Some businesses feel that a higher figure is better for business. (ie the customer is happier)
This is why we use Premier Auto's Dyno for our Dyno Days. we know there dyno to be run responsibly and that it is set as to provide a realistic RWKW figure. (we also run all cars in 4th gear on the day to keep things as accurate as possible)
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Wed, 18 June 2003 09:27
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Yeah tru i can see your point definetely
theres gonna be more than 19 kw of drivetrain loss in a TA22 i spose
Thanx
Mani
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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Wed, 18 June 2003 13:44
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dam dodgy dyno shops, lying about your output to keep you coming back
justin 
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Location:
NSW Engadine
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Wed, 17 March 2004 07:00
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If i put a 3T-GTE in my 79 KE55.. what sort of diff can i use..? bearing in mind that it has leaf springs.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Wed, 17 March 2004 07:36
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whoa
given that formula, I should be able to make 390kw at 16psi!
I'm not even making 300
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Location:
Darwin
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Wed, 17 March 2004 08:28
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If you already have a good condition 3T Hybrid then why not Turbo the engine you have already got esp If the Compression isn't to High. Just buy the 3T-GTE Exhaust Manifold and intake and Bolt on the Turbo you want. If you get a 3T-GTE you may have to rebuild anyway and Correct me if Im wrong but arn't the 3T hybrid a better engine anyway?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Mon, 07 February 2005 13:34
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Hey all,
i just wanted to ask a question about doing the 3tgte into a ta22 conversion, and i suppose this is the best thread to ask the question as i am not great with mechanical terms. so any help would be most appreciated. i have already got the engine in, however the gearbox is causing some headaches. ive got a w55 gearbox and the mounts for the gearbox is too far back (as in closer to the diff) than the celica mounting bolts (even using the settings which are closest to the diff) and gearbox crossmember. Is this normal in doing the conversion? i know i can't use the standard manual ta22 gearbox crossmember, and the auto gearbox crossmember is meant to be used (which i read numerous times in this forum and saw on some pics on the website http://users.chariot.net.au/~stmezz/simons.htm) however i don't think that the auto gearbox crossmember would work as it is straight and doesn't really go back far enough to mount on the gearbox. so have i done something wrong along the lines? or am i meant to get a custom crossmember made up? thank you for any help given
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Tue, 08 February 2005 04:39
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I have not done this conversion but I had a similar problem when fitting a W57 g/box to my RA23, only the front bolt holes would line up with the rear captive nuts in the chassis, when you used the original g/box x/member.
So, I have the x/member mounting plates extended with longer 3mm steel plates welded over the top of the original ones and then new holes drilled using the old ones as a template.
And, given that these 3mm thick plates lowered the g/box by that amount and might put a higher load / greater angle on the driveshaft, I also had a 3mm thick plate welded inside the x/mem to put the g/box back onto the same position. Its a bit overkill/anal, but I am like that.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Mechanically stupid person seeks help with ta22 ?
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Tue, 08 February 2005 22:24
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Sounds a bit intense and thanks for your feedback, in any case is the conversion between the RA23 and the TA22 very similar? Because i use to have both cars and as far as i knew they were pretty much the same, but the front of the car was slightly longer. In any case i found it really odd that no one else came across the problem, because i read up about this conversion and everyone said it was rather simple, with little changes to the engine mounts as being the major problem ( as well as changing fuel lines, getting bigger brakes, running new exhaust and i spose the wiring ).
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