| Author | Topic |
|---|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Rosanna, Melb
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Sun, 06 July 2003 13:28
 
|
 |
I've been having a think about this for a while too. But as far as I know, there never was a 3TGEU, all twin cam 3T's were turbo.
Late model (all fuel injected) 2TG's have the same block as the 3T so you can drop the 3T crank in no worries. Which rods and pistons I am not sure.
Earlier 2TG's need a bit of grinding to fit the 3T crank.
I'd be interested if anyone knows the piston and rod combo and whether they need flycutting etc. This would just be for the T18 thrashmobile, so cheap is good.
And a bore out to 1900 should be fine, I've seen 1940 before and I think someone was using gemini pistons to give 2L. But all this has come from these forums so keep searching.
Hen
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 01:17
|
|
I'm actually looking at using the 3TG-TEU block mainly because they are common and I have access to one. I'm not sure if this block is ideal, but hopefully someone will confirm.
Also I'm not sure if the crank and rods from this engine are the best to use in the hybrid.
Anyone got any ideas?
|
|
|
Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 05:15
|
|
I guess I'll be needing custom pistons anyway so the valve issue isn't a problem.
Can anyone tell me what head is the best to use. I have been told that the single cam head is capable of flowing more than the twin cam, what are other peoples thoughts on this?
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
 Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 09:29
|
|
hi, i am also building and researching this engine. although i cheated a bit (bought a unfinished project). apparantly the 3t block has been bored (to what i dont know) and i have forged pistons that should run a compression of 11:1.
i am currently buying the new bits gradually and deciding which computer to run.
isnt the point of making this hybrid to use the twin cam head of the 2t? why else would u bother?
please keep us posted (pun intended) on how u go!
|
|
|
Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 10:17
|
|
I am also doing this converion right now. I have fully resurched it and think I have all the answers (to biuld a generic 3T-G that is).
Block to use:
Any, 2T or 3T. Early 2T will need some grinding but can be used.
Pistons: Must be 3T. For cheap use 3T-C pistons, avaliable up to 86mm. The exhaust valve relief has to be machined a bit deeper. 3T-GTE pistons would give a low compression, don't use. 86mm = 1813cc
85mm = 1770cc
For good pistons: Get custom forged. They are avaliable for 3T/ 3TG engines. Come ready in 89mm and big valve reliefs. One brand is Wisco I think. Also KB. 89mm = 2 liters
Crank: Must use a 3T crank! This is the main bit. No one has determined a different between 3T-C and 3T-GTE, they may be the same. 3T has a 78mm stroke, and 8 counter weights. 2T crank has 4 counterweights.
Rods: Any 2T- 3T rods can be used, same dimentions. Some are stronger/weaker. The only way to be sure is to have 2 sets and compare. Any will work fine.
Head: 2T-G or course! Early 88220 heads had smaller valves, all the rest have the bigger valves.
Prepare the 3T block for twincam. Rotate the unused cam bearings to cover the oil holes. (Take them out and put back in at a different position). A cheap 3T-C or 2T head gasket can be used, if you make some gasket for the front bit yourself. Saves alot of money needed for a 2T-G head gasket.
Flywheel: Any will fit, but use the lightest you got. I am lightening mine quite a bit.
Camshafts: 88222 cams work well, 256 degrees with alot of lift, about 10.5mm I think. Later ones had less duration but there is very little difference. I am going to try some reground 305.5 cams I have ready.
Intake: My choice is stock 40mm Solex sidedrafts on the stock manifold. Just for the wide open throttle sound at the race track. Its cheap power! No wires or computer. Mechanical fuel pump seams to work fine on my 1600cc so far also, not sure about 1800cc.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 10:25
|
|
Wow thanks for that mate.
Do you know if the 3TG-TEU block and crank will suffice?
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 11:25
|
|
FUD!
thanks johny
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
 Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 13:43
|
|
Sorry for the delay but web time is scarce for me at the moment 
Ok, Jonny has covered alot so I am not going to repeat it but a few small points.
"By any 2T or 3T block" that includes 2T-G and 3T-GTE blocks. if you use a 2T series block it make make registration alot easier depending on your Blue slip inspector. 
Pistons - By "Must be 3T" jonny means they must have the Pin Height of a 3T, The extra capacity is made by a longer stroke in the crank and as such the pin heighs between the 2T series pistons and the 3T series pistons is quite signifigant.
3T and 3T-GTE cranks have the same dimensions. There are questions/rumours about the supremancy of the 3T-GTE crank and it being stronger. There is nothing I know of to support or deny this ?
Conrods - These also come back to Urban Legend BUT it is a well supported Urban legend. 3T-GTE rods are supposed to be the strongest, VERY closely followed by the 2T-GEU rods. However all T series rods are good quality and should surfice. Shot peening and linishing awith Good rod Bolts (ARP) is VERY strongly recommended for anything approaching a serious rebuild. High RPM race engines will need aftermarket rods. (Use 8000 RPM as a Guide point for when Shot peened & Linished Rods might not be up to the task)
Flywheels - Yes any will fit, as will a 1G-GTE flywheel. BUT be very careful with which one you choose. BAthroom scale results show a MASSIVE 4KG weight difference between the 2T and 2T-GEU flywheels. theres a thread on T series FLywheels if you wnat all the details.
Cams- Depends on what else you do and how you wanna drive it. Speak to someone who knows these engines before you decide and if they are not timed correctly the engine will run like a dog. This is one area you cannot compromise on, remember these are a full impact head. If the cam timing is out Kiss all your valves and prolly your pistons goodbye when they smash into each other
Compression - Once again depends on application and more importantly the fuel you will be running it on.
Fuel delivery depends how wild you go, 40mm is not really the go for a BIG horsepower 2TG, 45mm or aftermarket injection with custom intake (Or Quad Throttle bodies) is the better option.
Overbore - Ok this is the sticky one. There is alot of stuff about 89mm T series engines. It is possible with the right block and a good machinist. Personally I will not go past 88.5mm as I have no desire to hit the water jackets with my pistons and i don't want to go to the expense of have a block sleaved for .5 of a mm !
Head gasket - If your rebuilding an engine and an extra $50 or so for the correct one is going to blow your budget then don't build it !
Cool 1,
If it were me and I were building a low to medium performer i would use a 3T-GTE crank and rods and either a late model 2T-GEU block or a 3T-GTE block depending on what I wanted to tell the engineer  I do like the whole......"Its only 1600cc... Honest line )
For a BIG power 2/3TG (over 100 RWHP) I'd seriously be considering Forged rods and shooting for the big numbers and high RPM treatment (Reliable High RPM can be achieved but there are some well guarded tricks required so get it built by the right person) !
You don't get a butcher to opperate on your body, treat a high performance rebuild the same way, too many poorly built engines give the rest of them a bad reputation !
And as for Single cam verses twin cam heads, Twin Cam should get the Best results BUT the single cam can give it quite a stir.
Hope that helps.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Mon, 07 July 2003 14:01
|
|
Well what I'm aiming for is a high performance engine without the insurance hassles of a turbo, So spending money on forged rods and obviously pistons isn't a problem.
One thing I have to find out is if I actually need a mod plate for fitting a 2TG or 3TG. Anyone know?
Rod, Do you know of anyone that does know what their doing when it comes to these engines? PM me if you will.
Also thanks very much for the input everyone, very helpful.
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Tue, 08 July 2003 11:28
|
|
Cool 1, As your in Brisbane i don't know what you need to do for the road worthy side of things. Call your version of the RTA and they will give you who to call. I had there number inmy Diary but thats at my old job
As for who to build it, I can only recommend the one person who is located down here in NSW.
Graham Wilkinhs @ Wilkins performance engines built mine and both versions of Tina'sand an old one I had many years ago. He has been building them for a long time and knows his shit. He is located at Seven hills in NSW. I don't have his number handy sorry. He is a Very busy guy but worth chasing in my opinion. Haveing seen alot of 2TG's built by other people I wouldn't consider going anywhere else (Except maybe Sean Malony in Melb altho I have never used him myself.)
Hope that helps mate.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Tue, 08 July 2003 11:58
|
|
|
Thanks for that mate, I might try and get in contact with him when I get a chance.
|
|
|
Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Tue, 08 July 2003 12:49
|
|
Shane
To give you an idea of performance here's how I built my old motor .
3T block bored .040" , 3T crank , 2TG rods , ACL 3T pistons , 2TGE Yamaha head , lightend flywheel , 40mm solex's , sonic extractors , 2" exhaust , 288 degree cams , I made up a jig and flycut the pistons , done a little work in the ports and fitted a electronic dizy . This motor seen 8000rpm every day for about 10 years and was still in good condition when I pulled it out to do the 3SGTE conversion . The best time I pulled on the strip was 14.8 on street tyres but I can't remember the speed .
Trevor
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Tue, 08 July 2003 12:56
|
|
|
Thats not bad. Did you have to have a mod plate for that?
|
|
|
Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Tue, 08 July 2003 13:22
|
|
I bought the TA in 1983 registed with a 2TG already fitted ( no mod plates back then ) I then built and fitted the 2TG/3T in 1991 , Than just had to do a engine number change but now I think you will need a mod plate .
Trevor
|
|
|
Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
|
Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Sat, 27 December 2003 02:23
|
|
I put my 2tg in and got the engine code changed over at the transport department, i asked a few mechanics (one who use to work on ta22's) and e said you porbly wont need a mod plate but i can do one for you if you want.
Jason
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: NA 3TG/2T Hybrid
|
Sun, 28 December 2003 12:42
|
|
Nice pics Jayem !!!
I have been meaning to compare the different rods for along time now ! Might just have to go and do it now.
Oh and 2T, 3T amd 2TGEU rods are NOT exactly the same. This i have looked into already !
Rod.
|
|
|
Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
|
