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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 04:23
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I'm thinking about getting something together just for the odd practice day or Super Sprint. I ran my AW11 in Type 1 unmodified and it was a lot of fun. However, I've got a company car now, so the AW11 was sold - but like a lot of you know, the itch to build/modify + race a car has come back to haunt me.
So I was looking at maybe an AE71 with 4AGE and going into Type 2 modified category. I want to keep the car street registered as I don't want to trailer the car around. I also want to keep the car cheap enough so that I only have to insure under 3rd party property, so about $4k to $5k is the limit. The budget it tight, so I might have to look for something already converted. I converted an AE86 to twin cam power so I'm happy to do drop in swaps, but don't want to have to fabricate. I don' want to be patching rust every weekend either. Have I already blown my budget?
Any other ideas for a good weekend racer that fits my criteria? Should I also be considering TA22/23, RA28 or KE25, KE55, KE70 Corollas? I know lots of suspension work required with any of my choices, but I want to start with a the best chassis for the job.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 04:29
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I'd go with an RA23/28. They have a more solid chassis than the Corollas, and the 18R-G has a much broader power band than a 4A-GE at the same power level. Suspension design is much the same and they have bigger brakes with a few easy upgrades available.
Of course I'm just biased. 
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 05:46
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bias rules
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 06:15
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| Norbie wrote on Fri, 11 July 2003 14:29 |
I'd go with an RA23/28.
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Hang on Norbie..
He already said | Quote: |
I don' want to be patching rust every weekend either.
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 06:49
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Good call Lucid
But maybe I should consider rust a stage 1 weight reduction, as all the cars in my price range love to rust.
If I could find an RA28 with 18RG with little or no rust, I bet it'd be more than my budget would allow. The RA28 is my favourite shape Celica.
Seriously however, can anyone objectively give me an indication of which chassis is best suited to track racing with light mods? ie. springs, good shocks, bushes, sway bars, performance brkae pads. Will definately go semi-slick street legal tyres as i know how much tires are worth on the track.
I'm even open to non-Toyota suggestions. For example, I know someone who picked up a pretty straight RX-2 with 13B mild port for $3k. $2k worth of suspension and tyres would make that a nice package. A bit of luck finding the bargains and unfinshed projects might be what I need.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 08:24
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You could pick up an average condition MA61 for your budget, and they'll crap all over old Celicas and Corollas in the handling department with appropriate suspension upgrades.
Again, this is my bias talking.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 14:09
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I'm with norbie
of course, remember parts for the ma61 are a bit rare and expensive, so probably not ideal for racing.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 14:16
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get a supra up ya
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Location:
sydney blue mountains
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 17:13
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ok, i know you said you dont wanna have to trailer it around but ichibahn usuall have some unregisterable cars for awesome prices for this purpose, if you check out what they have you just may be persuaded. a while ago they had a mitsubishi GTO for under ten grand!
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Fri, 11 July 2003 22:58
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tho the RA23/28 would be a great car the usual sloppy steering box that comes with every RA celica up to the RA40 may let it down on the track.
<-- my choice would be an RA40 just for the fact that they are more available than the RA28, hence parts are everywhere etc.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Sat, 12 July 2003 01:44
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Hmmm... TA23 with an AE71 steering rack conversion then!
Buggerit, just get an SA63 which already has R&P steering with IRS to boot. Chuck in a BEAMS 3S-GE and 6-speed and you're away! Ooops, did I just blow the budget?
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Sat, 12 July 2003 01:48
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If I decide to go all out un-registered race car, then my choices open up heaps. However, I don't think I get to the race track often enough to justify a car that can only be used on the track - not just yet anyway.
With the 'usual sloppy steering box' comment, does that mean that it can be fixed if the steering box is rebuilt? Nylon steering bushes etc? I'm starting to think about the TA22/23 idea with a 2TG, later going to 3T-GTEU if I want to go quicker. Only reason being that I'd probably enjoy the car off the track as I consider it a bit of a classic. I bit of the Targa Tas influence on me. Not a fan of the RA40 unfortunately, even though looks count for nothing on the track.
I thought about getting an MA70 Supra as they're quite well setup and would do really well in Type 1 unmodified 2-3L class - a class not many cars enter (Alfa GTV6, Skyline GTS) and an MA70 would have a good chance at a class win. 7M-GTE would be the upgrade path too... but a decent one is $8k+ and more like $10k if I'm not mistaken. But I can't afford that much right now and I think I like to build/modify - my old AE86 gave me the most satisfaction (along with the most headaches  ).
Yes - I'm a picky bugger, but thanks for all the ideas so far.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Sat, 12 July 2003 13:05
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get a camry!
if your in an endurance you might win since you wont have to stop for feul as often!
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Sun, 13 July 2003 10:22
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hey whats wrong with a RA40 late coupe mine has 3sge and get this, did the weights yesterday and with 15liters of fuel weighs 965 kilos and thats with monster brakes and 7.5 rearend and all the interior still in as well and plus cage ,dave bringing out his monster corona mk 2 so it should be interesting to see if we are matched well
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Sun, 13 July 2003 14:44
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Will,
Type 2 is Close to Standard trim with Some Minor Mod's, ie Basic Street mods Brake pads, Air filter, Exhaust System, Suspension, Standard Cams... ETC, Though rules can be pushed to there limits. These other projects will throw you into Type 3 (Club Cars) or Type 4 (Sports Sedan's). The AE71 could fall between Type 2 or 3, And if you get a prick of a Scruniteer you'll be definately Type 3. Just choose Wisely... I like the MA61 Idea, especially with a big set of Fat's on the rear end!!
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Mon, 14 July 2003 03:23
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What's the take on doing engine swaps into cars that came out that way overseas? Are they very lenient on that type of conversion? I have seen a few AE86's with 4AGE's in type 2 (my old AE86 was allowed in Type2). Is this because of the above reason?
So MA61 with 5M-GE would pr. go into Type 2? MA61 with 7M-GE or 7M-GTE would go into Type3/4? (or maybe even SV?)
Hate to dissapoint, but Mazda RX7 is at the top of my list at the moment, but this MA61 idea has merit. Going to research MA61 in my lunch hour
Can anyone share any driving experiences between RX7 vs. MA61 on chassis and handling? I've driven a stock MA61 briefly. MA61 has an independant rear right? I need to compare weight, suspension setup, brake sizes, engine potential of the 5M-GE....OK Norbie... go for it
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Mon, 14 July 2003 04:21
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I've never driven an RX7 so I can't really draw a comparison. I do know the RX7 of the same era (series 1/2/3) is lighter than the MA61, but it doesn't have IRS. An MA61 should be somewhere between 1270 and 1350kg depending on spec, but I'm sure you could strip it down to 1200 without much effort. I don't know what RX7's weigh but it would be less than 1200.
The MA61 has McPherson strut suspension in the front and trailing arm IRS in the rear. A 7.5" clutch-type LSD is standard on Aus-spec models, and it should be a 3.9:1 ratio for manual or 4.1:1 for auto. Brakes are ventilated discs all round; the fronts are 258mm with fairly large single-spot calipers, and the rears are slightly smaller (can't remember the exact measurements right now). My brakes used to fade a bit after 7 laps on the sprint circuit at QR, but that was with badly worn discs and crappy Bendix pads; I suspect fade wouldn't be an issue with my new DBA slotted rotors and EBC pads.
As for the 5M-GE, the later versions have 170hp but it's not hard to get them up to the 200hp mark (exhaust, cams, mild porting). You could also "cheat" and put a 6M-GE crank in your 5M-GE block, but you didn't hear that from me. 
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Mon, 14 July 2003 04:37
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RX7 is about 1100kg, but only 115hp with the stock 12A. This puts a stock MA61 slightly ahead on power to weight. However, the mods are where the action is at 
5M-GE conversion in NSW I would imagine would not require engineering, just blue slip? Also, 5M-GE's should still be in reasonable supply as I believe they were available in Cressidas? (Again, I'm an M series novice so going from very vague memory). Cams from Camtech? This combo is looking promising.
Rust? Does the MA61 survive better than the RA Celicas? Chassis strength? ie. Can I pickup a $3500 MA61 with clapped out engine and suspension with the the knowledge that the chassis and panels will be OK?
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Mon, 14 July 2003 06:26
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One Simple word,
HOMOLOGATION! The AE86 was Homologated that way ie 4AGE, The AE71, well, I can say it was. I'm in the Same boat with the AE10# RV Seca I race, I know that the GT Model's ran 20V's but Cams won't recogise they do exist, until physically I park one up there butts!  They seem to be The Tights ones in the world, and need to be loosened 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Mon, 14 July 2003 07:01
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5M-GE's aren't hard to find. You are correct, they were fitted to MX73 Cressidas. I don't know if anyone makes off-the-shelf cams for 5M-GE's, but I'd just get the existing ones reground.
MA61's do tend to rust but it's usually non-structural; for example they're notorious for rust in the hatch, but that's a cosmetic issue. Chassis strength is excellent going by the two MA61's I've owned; the shell feels very tight in my 19 year old Supra even after several months of 2JZ torque trying to twist it in half. It definitely feels much more rigid than the RA23, and I'm sure it would be better again with the addition of a strut brace and a triangulated roll cage.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Mon, 14 July 2003 08:00
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Easy, but I'm pretty biased though.
- KE25/AE71 4AGE 20V or 3SGE
- MX23/MA61 2JZGE
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Tue, 15 July 2003 03:24
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Why not build yourself a nice little clubman. Buy a written off rear wheel drive celica/escort/corolla/datsun etc, raid the parts, drop in a 4A-GZE, 3T-GTE, 3S-GTE or anything similar some good tyres and whalah instant fun. If you are a handy knida bloke, they can be built pretty cheaply.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Tue, 15 July 2003 03:35
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What about a mighty boy
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Location:
Newtown
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Recommendations for a weekend track car
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Tue, 15 July 2003 10:01
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Datsun Stanza is pretty popular and common isnt it?
Dunno what engine the SSS stanza came with
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