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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Fri, 18 July 2003 08:42
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Surprise surprise, Rob Mc Gregor from CSR (who supply ethanol to petrol co's) says that ethanol doesn't harm engines, even though he has a stake in it. Anyone here buying it now?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 00:10
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talk about the biggest political/media witch hunt in recent history...
the first 'scare' was a made-up sham, with ZERO evidence that there ever even existed high ethanol levels in sydney bowsers, and second to this, high ethanol does sweet fuck all to cars.
it all revolved around a labor based attack on a primary liberal party commercial supporter. there has been MULTIPLE follow up reports on sydney's 'ethanol crisis'... but suprise suprise, they never come out on the front page...
my 2c
i *might* be abe to scan a copy of one of the articles one day
ed
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 13:05
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Sat, 19 July 2003 08:10 |
and second to this, high ethanol does sweet fuck all to cars.
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I know first hand of someone who's engine got rooted because she filled up all the time at a petrol station that had high ethanol levels. If high levels did nothing, why do manufacturers say only have x% ethanol in petrol going into this car?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 13:17
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If you watched the segment on the show the other night they explained that only a few service stations in far north Queensland were selling fuel with ethanol in it.
Also I think the 10% maximum has something to do with trying not to piss off the oil company's.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 13:27
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Gull service stations (WA only) were selling it with ethanol in it, thats where this person was filling up that got her car rooted.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 13:28
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And whats the proof that the ethanol rooted the engine?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 15:45
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the mechanic's diagnosis
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 15:48
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 So what exactly was rooted with the engine?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 15:59
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I don't know, a) I'm not a mechanic and b) neither is she so she probably wouldn't know herself. What she does know is what she was told by someone who looked at the engine and they said it was the fuel.
Geez, you want me to get it freighted over there so you can pull it apart and see yourself or something? 
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 19 July 2003 16:04
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| gtman wrote on Sun, 20 July 2003 01:59 |
IGeez, you want me to get it freighted over there so you can pull it apart and see yourself or something?
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It would be good of you to do this for me.
I think the owner of the car should take it to a different mechanic. Its just to easy for a mechanic to say its the fuel. The only concern about ethanol was that it may perish rubber fuel lines.
Also people have been running methanol in with their fuel for years with no problems with their engines, so why would ethanol cause any problems?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sun, 20 July 2003 03:03
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Methanol and Ethanol are completely different, don't try comparing them. Sure they're both alcohols, but there are many many types of alcohol with different chemical compositions.
Having said that, I have no idea if ethanol is good or bad for your engine, but I do know that methanol does very bad things to your fuel system if it's not designed specifically for methanol.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sun, 20 July 2003 03:09
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Methanol and Ethanol have a lot in common actually.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sun, 20 July 2003 03:54
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Hrmmmm hydro-carbons....god i hated that subject during highschool chemistry
what was the supposed argument for ethonol rooting engines?
i rarely get to watch the news anymore due to working afternoons\nights(instead of mornings\afternoons  )
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sun, 20 July 2003 04:31
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There was no argument. They had people on there that were trialing the ethanol based fuel in their own cars with no problems.
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Location:
West Aust
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Thu, 24 July 2003 02:37
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I’m also into boating and in the boating environment ethanol is a big hate…
First of all it does damage rubber fuel lines, and also fiberglass / many plastic fuel tanks. Generally rubber fuel lines in cars will take years to break down to a dangerous point. Also some carbies (eg Holley) contains plastic floats etc that can be damaged from alcohols. (part of the Holley alcohol conversion kit has brass floats, etc)
Secondly alcohol absorbs water, up to almost its own weight. In a marine environment this can be really dangerous to an engine as water does not compress and can cause extremely higher compressions in engines and in turn engine damage. Although most boats have water / fuel separators at 5% water these would become ineffective within an hour or 2 of use as the capacity would be exceeded. In a car environment generally this is not really of concern, as typically it does not come into such an environment. But for a car due to condensation in the fuel tank, it may have a high value of water in the bottom of the tank, the first dose of alcohol at 10:1 (10%) could cause serious problems. Hint here: Run metho at 100:1 (1%) in your tank monthly to dissolve any water from condensation etc. At 100:1 it will not cause problems to the engine. Even if you don’t plan on using ethanol fuels this will help prevent your tank from rusting.
Thirdly ethanol (or any alcohol fuel) is an oxygenate therefore required more volume of fuel to obtain the correct burn characteristics. Ie. When converting an engine to alcohol, racers run jets that flow approx twice as much compared to running petrol, otherwise you will run your engine too lean. We all know a lean engine will die. Now using 10% ethanol in a car; the ethanol component will be say 50% lean, therefore overall 5% leaner than the original total value. Since most car manufactures run cars a bit rich this should not be a problem. If you have a old carby, or mod’d efi car (some chip burners run cars leaner than factory spec for more power) that is already running around 14.7:1 air/fuel or worse this extra 5% leanness could be enough to cause engine damage.
So for the average car with not too much water in the fuel tank and running a bit rich, ethanol should cause no major problems. BP trailed it and no longer use it.
Also the main reason we have ethanol fuels is it subsidies our failing sugar industry.
KEv
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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 Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Thu, 24 July 2003 03:58
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And I believe that is called kickin' your arse 
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Thu, 24 July 2003 06:46
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| gtman wrote on Thu, 24 July 2003 13:58 |
And I believe that is called kickin' your arse
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Just proves that there are a lot of little kids out there that believe the first thing they hear 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Fri, 25 July 2003 02:32
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true, but when this whole ethanol thing first came out I did a bit of reading up on it and the effects it has and from that formulated my opinion that it was bad. I think also the reason that the government doesn't say anything about it is that as ae101 said, it subsidises our sugar industry and so this is the line they preach. However, if I remember correctly, most ethanol in australia is made from imported grain, and guess who is a major liberal party financer, thats right, the dude who imports the grain.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Fri, 25 July 2003 06:41
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Anyway, There might be someone on these forums that might be doing a ethanol injection soon so we'll see how that goes.
This will be interesting because ethanol should be legal in a street car 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Fri, 25 July 2003 15:37
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Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking ethanol as a fuel, its a good alternative, but from what I've read and understand, its just that you can't safely run high amounts of ethanol in an engine thats not designed for it. If it is, then its fine and dandy
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 26 July 2003 01:14
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In other countrys they run up to 80% ethanol nothing special about those cars either. Just tuned for it!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: More Ethanol on Today Tonight
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Sat, 26 July 2003 02:56
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Out of everyhing i have read on the topic it comes down to Ethanol isn't a good thing to run in our cars which wern't designed to use it, you can get away with using low ethanol mixes which wont harm the engine but chuch the two cars on a dyno and the one using straight petrol will have a higher reading.
ethanol is meant to lower emmissions but it also increases your fuel consumption, so in the end is t really making any differance to the environment?
I wouldn't like to use ethanol in my car i would never put it in and i reckon it can't be good for an engine that gets a hard work out either as it affects the octane rating there for you should adjust your timing to suit.
its the same when they got rid of leaded fuel and introduced this lead replacement shit.
they found that the new lead replacement fuel will be fine for engines although can cause damage to engine which operate under high rev and load conditions.
i reckon the same would go for Ethanol, sure might be fine for a granny who never revs over 2,500rpm and drives to the shops now and then.
but someone who wants to get the most out of their car i wouldn't recommend using it.
ask yourself this,,, could you imagin a V8 Supercar team opting to use an Ethanol fuel mix over standard petrol? i don't think so i'm 100% certain they would use straight petrol.
and is it really worth puting dodgy Ethanol fuel in the car to save that 1c/L ?????
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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