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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Fri, 25 July 2003 11:28
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Pretty much as the title says.
There is currently a thread on PF about LPG in turbo applications. As I am considering using LPG on the drag car I was just looking for others thoughts, experiences and suggestions.
mrshin - your name came up as someone who holds a valuable opinion.
Thanks,
Tyron.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Fri, 25 July 2003 15:28
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Good to know SOMEONE values my opinion  As far as my experiences etc. goes, I can tell you a little bit here now. LPG seems to behave in a slightly strange way, ie it will take more abuse than the octane rating suggests. Nearly all commonly available gas systems are crap. Much of what many people tell you is questionable. Lastly, it can potentially work pretty well! I guess the best thing to do if you want to milk my head for what I've learnt would be to ring me up one evening - otherwise I'd be typing here all night and getting nowhere
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sat, 26 July 2003 02:37
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a GRA mixer set up blow thru is about the current best and only way to get things happening with LPG
dont forget a closed loop controller or your fuel econ on a trip will suck and also make shure you have a pressure switch to disable closed loop on boost or else it trys to get 14.7:1 fuel ratio on boost = BAD
The bigest problem with strait LPG is the haltech IG5 is no longer made so geting good ignition advance and retard for a decent price is impossable 
Dont know if you guys have a company up there called "supagas" anyway down here thay sell strait propane rather then the AutoGAS mix one gets from the servo, its much cleaner and has a much higher octane rating!
Allan
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sat, 26 July 2003 03:28
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Thanks for that mrshin, will get back to you.
I know of the GRA carbys, but I prefer a computer controlled system simply because of the flexibility. I was contemplating using one of those 'floating gas valves' that goes between the converter and mixer. The only computer available uses a TPS and O2 sensor as input, and simply cycles around 14.7:1 A/F at cruise. I was thinking of improving on this by building my own computer instead of using the crappy one currently available. But this wont be for a little while as I am flat out with other commitments at the moment 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sat, 26 July 2003 03:50
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nothing a microtech wouldn't fix....use it for ignition and tps input...don't run the injector side of things...
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sat, 26 July 2003 04:09
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| Grega wrote on Sat, 26 July 2003 13:50 |
nothing a microtech wouldn't fix....use it for ignition and tps input...don't run the injector side of things...
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careful, all the megasquirt boys might get upset because you mentioned microtech
get hold of a MTX8 or LTX8 and your problems are solved
for prices look on www.dysonrotary.com.au
ab
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sat, 26 July 2003 23:57
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ab....megasquirt don't do ignition fella. microtech does 
LTX8 would be the way to go. thx for the URL too!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 00:23
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ewww think i would prefer to get a wolf then one of those!
Allan
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 02:45
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Allan, so you're still into the gas thing? Good to hear... As for control, economy, etc. - forget gas research stuff, forget stepper motors - hopefully SOON I'll have something to offer that's MUCH better than ANY of that crap! A couple of you know what I mean already...
I get more detirmined every day too, because my present GRA setup is progressively working at me to piss me off as much as possible... Causing me grief in any way that it can!
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 09:07
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| Allan wrote on Sun, 27 July 2003 10:23 |
ewww think i would prefer to get a wolf then one of those!
Allan
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thats nice to know, maybe you should go buy the wolf then. simply stating the MTX8/LTX8 will do the job very well on the other guys drag car.
tyron, i would suggest getting in contact with one of the big rotary workshops for some more info, they are generally pretty helpful.
ab
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 10:30
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yeah nothing wrong the microtech. horses for courses...
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 11:37
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This is my mates navara ute, goes very hard, on dedicated lpg setup. Note the MASSIVE intercooler. Its making about 150 kw at the wheels on 1 barr boost from the original SOHC engine.
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/yojimbo/jamie1.jpg
Matt
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 12:35
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LPG requires a VERY good spark for NA let alone when boosted and looking at the lower microtecs thay dont do coil packs
Maybe fine for petrol!
Allan
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 13:07
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When it comes to ignition, while the chemical properties of LPG do indeed prefer a slightly beefier spark, most the the trouble in that department is the result of the fuel systems that are generally used offering the control of a 1920s carb. When correct mixtures/distribution are used, ignition is no big issue (I like to see at least multi coils on any engine anyway!) - but when control is poor, misfire is prevelant. I'd say I've proved this by busting enough bits!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 13:30
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Thanks for that ab. There are a couple of heavy hitter rotary places over here (FORMAZ, ROTOMOTION etc). Could even ask PERFORMANZ TURBOCHARGERS as they had a dedicated VG20(?) running LPG and getting 11 second quarters.
Yes, I did mean VG20 not VG30. Not sure if it is VG or VQ though.
Have heard about the need for a decent ignition system. Agree with mrshin, looking at the chemical properties table, LPG does have a higher ignition limit than premium, but generally the problem lies with controlling the gas mixture correctly. I had an IMPCO 255 mixer apart a couple of weeks back, and the technology is soooooo basic. Even though it was a 70's gas carby, it uses the same principles as the majority of gas carbys available today.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Sun, 27 July 2003 23:55
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Yeah that bluebird uses a VG20E (single cam non turbo 2 litre V6), with a turbo, GRA system, basic ignition, etc.
As for the impco stuff... Oh dear, it hasn't changed in 30 years! The so-called 'feedback fuel processors' (and similiar) are piss poor excuses for oxy sensor control too...
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Mon, 28 July 2003 01:00
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| Allan wrote on Sun, 27 July 2003 22:35 |
LPG requires a VERY good spark for NA let alone when boosted and looking at the lower microtecs thay dont do coil packs
Maybe fine for petrol!
Allan
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mtx8 and ltx8 are hardly the 'lower' microtechs mate!
ab
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4cyl+turbo+LPG (mrshin)
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Mon, 28 July 2003 12:21
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yeah only about $500 more then what the haltech IG5 sold for! that being my point!
I dunno Mazda loven hippys
Allan
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