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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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 Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Tue, 29 July 2003 03:57
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Hey guys,
Just thinking, did a search and came up with only a couple of things that 2 piece tailshafts are easier to balance, and they reduce unsprung weight.
Are the above correct? Also, what are the other differences with them?
The MA61 parts car has a single-piece tailshaft, and when I change to the F-series LSD from the T-series my old tailshaft may not fit. Is there any downsides to running the single piece? Are there any advantages?
Thanks,
Nathan
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Location:
near chris and murray vic
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Tue, 29 July 2003 07:37
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to my limited knowledge, 2 piece tailshafts are to prevent harmonic vibrations (i think thats what theyre called)
don't know how likely it is for the tailshaft to explode from hitting its resonant frequency tho... guess it just reduces drivetrain vibration?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Tue, 29 July 2003 07:56
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I think your right Franky. But the single piece will be much stronger 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Tue, 29 July 2003 07:58
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Strength isn't a big concern, I think its been proven time and again with the Mk2 that I'll destroy the diff and the gearbox before the tailshaft.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 01:01
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Surely there are more people here with experience in tail-shafts...
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 01:46
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Sorry, no experience - though I would have thought a single tailshaft would make diff and gearbox changes a lot harder. I'm tracking this post as well - thinking strong single piece could be the go.
Actually, didn't Norbie get a Hilux shaft cut to size? Was that a single or 2 piece?
- Justin
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 02:41
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2 piece. 
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 02:45
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Ok I have a little experience with drive shafts.
and Shteeve is correct.
Two piece drive shaft are used to stop harmonic vibrations. But will cause a shudder on take off. They then put a rubber donut in to account for this shudder which causes other problems. When A certain car company was exporting cars to South Africa( no speed limits ) we had to test each and every car for harmonics vibrations at high speed. Some cars where shocking at 160k. The GT series had a carbon fibre wraping to help stop this.
The Harmonic vibration is not a problem on short shafts. Most Two pieces have a rubber donut to stop lash these don't last under large loads. Hence why a one piece shaft is stronger ie less lash and no ruber donut plus you get no shudder on take off, ever driven a VN? you know the shudder I talk about.
Hope this helps I would go one piece if you have problems with sudder at high speed get a good balance done.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 03:17
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For thoes that arn't sure what is ment by tailshaft harmonics, take a bit of string hold it at both ends and spin it like a skipping rope. When this happens to your tailshaft you will definitly feel it in the seat of your pants.
The longer the tailshaft the more susceptable to harmonic excitation it is. Increasing the diameter helps to prevent this to some extent but it is not always appropriate. Thats when manufacturers go for a support in the middle of the shaft aka two piece shaft.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 03:52
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Yeah ... 2 piece tail shafts are made as such to reduce vibrations from what I've learnt.
From experience, there's not much difference however I do experience some engine vibration in 5th gear above 3,000 rpm's - not sure what's causing it but the 1 piece tailshaft I'm running could be part of the reason ... 
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 07:40
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There is also an accoiciated loss of power through the extra uni joints in a driveshaft. It is a very small loss of power but still a loss.
There is also the fact that there is an extra uni and a centre bearing that can also fail.
So you get a better drive from a 2 piece but the potenial for less reliability and a minor loss of power.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 22:01
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The power loss through the uni joints is a bit of a non arguement because for a given length a single piece tailshaft needs to be bigger in diameter and/or thicker walled. This increases the rotational inertia and sucks up more power than your uni joint ever could.
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Wed, 30 July 2003 22:34
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The length of the tail shaft in a XA2X would not justify or an ae86 would not justify a two piece tail shaft. A supra would be marginal. The stifness of the gearbox can also effect the harmonics of the shaft. I know we did some experiments that showed stiffing the gearbox with more webbing can affect the harmonic frequecy.
roger
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Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Thu, 31 July 2003 09:32
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The biggest advantage of the two piece shaft for the *A6* chassis when you put in the F series IRS in is actually being able to pull the gearbox without having to pull the motor or drop the diff head. I am very surprised your donor car has a one piece shaft, is it original?
Callum
PS - justcallmefrank, did you confirm that the F series IRS is going to bolt in ok?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Thu, 31 July 2003 11:04
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Hey mate,
I have no idea whether or not its original, it was REALLY surprising to find the damn thing in the first place! I haven't been able to check the diffs yet because I'm sorting uni stuff out.
Will let you know.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Difference with 1/2 Piece Tailshafts
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Sun, 03 August 2003 10:57
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Another reason car makers use 2 piece tailshafts is a reduction in size of the tailshaft tunnel. Firstly, as someone said earlier, the short shafts are smaller in diameter. Secondly, the angle of the rear shaft only begins require larger clearance under the rear seat. In the name of passenger comfort. Take a look at a Commodore (2 piece) versus Falcon (1 piece), there's a fair bit of difference.
During the 1980's, if a Holden customer had a vibration problem that they couldn't solve by balancing or other means they would put a one piece tailshaft in it. I'm told the customer would virtually have to be jumping up and down on the counter screaming whilst tearing their hair out before Holden would approve it though.
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