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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 06:59
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Ive got a friend who insists on telling me that every time i get fuel surge when caining corners that my engine is detonating because it is leaning out. . .
Is this correct?
He rekons im damaging my engine, but i tend to disagree. Maybe a bit of fuel starvation for a split second but thats it. Frankly i don't care, cause i never have enough money to have more than half a tank, and i can't help thrashing my car regardless 
Any constructive input appreciated 
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 07:55
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| bayka wrote on Tue, 29 July 2003 16:59 |
Ive got a friend who insists on telling me that every time i get fuel surge when caining corners that my engine is detonating because it is leaning out. . .
Is this correct?
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Very possible
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He rekons im damaging my engine, but i tend to disagree. Maybe a bit of fuel starvation for a split second but thats it. Frankly i don't care, cause i never have enough money to have more than half a tank, and i can't help thrashing my car regardless
Any constructive input appreciated
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Any fuel starvation is a very bad thing and everything should be done to stop it.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 08:14
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I have a immobiliser switch that I turn on when I leave my car in the city and parra and places that switches off the fuel pump. (like depressurising the fuel system by unplugging the little connector there)
but sometimes I forget that I flicked the switch and try and start the car, and obviously it turns over 3 times and then I remember.
is that bad?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 08:19
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prolly not really.
leaning out is only really a problem at high load and/or rpm, ie under boost for turbos or WOT for NA. otherwise it just runs out of fuel and cuts.
bad example, but for victa mowers the recommended way to turn them off is to cut the fuel supply and wait till the carby runs dry.
also not having fuel pressure when starting is not really a problem. you could try to start it with the fuel system disconnected and not have problems (as long as you have oil)
i have similar thing in may car, but is carby, so i can usually make it to the nearest intersection before it dies .
Cya, Stewart
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 08:22
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Also just remember that injectors are a little like fuel pumps! They dont like running dry!!!
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 08:30
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that is what I was worried about... when I forgot I was always like, "DOH, my injectors!." they seem to be doing ok though.. niiiice injectors
better than having a car which could be stolen in under 30 seconds though I guess
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 09:54
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So even if its starved for like 0.5 seconds my engine is actually DETONATING?
Or is it just a bit starved so i loose power for an instant?
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 10:10
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a lot of stuff happens in 0.5 seconds
do a little maths RPM divided by 60 seconds divided by 2 will tell u how many times the crank turn in that 0.5 seconds.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 10:23
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| oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 29 July 2003 18:19 |
bad example, but for victa mowers the recommended way to turn them off is to cut the fuel supply and wait till the carby runs dry.
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They actually suggested doing this so that 2 stroke fuel isn't left in the carby for a prolonged period, with resultant petrol evaporation and residual 2 stroke oil left behind, making start up 2-3 weeks (or in my case, months ) later hard. Point taken however - you don't see many Victas with big holes burnt thru the piston due to detonation because of this practice.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 10:29
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ok Rob_ra40 so its clear either u don't know, or you don't want to answer my question and just be a fucking smart arse
Im sorry if im stupid, but if the engine is starved of fuel for a second im not sure how that causes detonation or premature piston explosion.
If anyone could explain this concept it'd be appreciated
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 10:37
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he was answering it!
if that happens when you're thrashing your car (say 6000rpm - makes the math easy for me)
so in 1 sec, you're doing 100 revs. 100revs running lean cant be a good thing, especially if your engine is under load (ie, when you're fanging it).
2 ways to fix this. either make sure you've alwaysd got at least 10 litres in the tank when you floor it (or however much it takes), or install a surge tank. Guess which the cheaper option is
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 10:39
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Ok dude, soz, so when ur car runs very lean what exactly causes detonation?
I understand that running lean heats up engine due to the fuel acting as a coolant, and can cause engine to overheat, but thats about it
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Tue, 29 July 2003 22:12
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i didnt mean to sound condescending, i should have placed some smilies in there  my bad.
hope theres no beef...
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Wed, 30 July 2003 00:30
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lets get a couple of things straight.
Fuel cuts, sudden fuel loss etc etc where the fuel supply is cut almost straight away is not harmful to the motor. Why? there is no fuel and no combustion. therefor no detonation.
However, gradual fuel loss, blocked filters, dying pump etc etc can cause detonation as the motor is forced to run lean and then theres a cance of pre ignition (detonation)
A lot of rev limiters are fuel cuts in aftermarket ECU's (like a microtech) they arnt bad for it in the same sence as detonation.
are we clear now?
Fuel surge is bad.. its a gradual loss of fuel supply.. while every time it surges the car may not be detonating.. theres a damn good chance it can... esp if you are on redline have a massive lean out and massive detonation occurs... buy buy motor!!!
put fuel in the damn thing!
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Wed, 30 July 2003 01:10
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| Simon-MrRx7 wrote on Wed, 30 July 2003 10:30 |
Fuel cuts, sudden fuel loss etc etc where the fuel supply is cut almost straight away is not harmful to the motor.
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It is harmful to the injectors though.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Wed, 30 July 2003 01:16
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Not if the injectors are shut off also.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Wed, 30 July 2003 07:24
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I those perfect worlds 
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Location:
melb
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Wed, 30 July 2003 07:53
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With this victa thing , with the old g3 metal carb it is ok to run it right out of fuel but with the later g4 plastic carb
about 1975 to current if left without fuel in carb the plastic bits somtimes swell then leak when fuel is next turned on and more important the governer diaphram dries out and goes hard,
p/s just thought id be a smart ass.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Wed, 30 July 2003 11:15
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cutting off the fuel supply is the only way to turn a top fueller off
but then again they have a life expectency of 60 seconds at full throttle,
they also have no injectors as such, they have 200 garden hoses dumping into the intake 
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Surging = Detonation ???
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Wed, 30 July 2003 17:42
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That 1 second wont matter a shit for your engine or injectors.
Your injectors will not dry out in 1 second.
But i suggest you do something about your fuel surge as the EFI pump is more of an issue.
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