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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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2jz
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Fri, 01 August 2003 05:00
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Hi guys,
I just wanted to know if there's any difference between the 2jzge block and the 2jzgte block, and what the differences are between the engines aside from the obvious lack of turbos on the GE
Thanks
Justin
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Fri, 01 August 2003 05:51
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turbo motors usually have extra oil oils in the crank, oil squirters, lower compression and stronger internals.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Fri, 01 August 2003 08:13
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Actually the bottom ends are identical except for the presence of oil squirters and lower comp pistons in the GTE. I honestly don't know if there is a difference in the oil pump between the 2 motors, but the manual quotes different pressure figures for the GTE and GE.
There are plenty of 500 hp NA-T 2JZGEs in the US using a standard GE bottom end (decompressed of course).
Most of the differences between the motors are in the head. It's rather a long list.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Mon, 31 May 2004 22:08
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*back from the dead*
Would a 2jz-ge block that is a bit decompressed be stronger or less strong than a standard 1jz-gte block?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Mon, 31 May 2004 23:05
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It would cope with anything you threw at it.
One option might be to buy a 2JZ 'bitsa' motor, fit it with 2JZGTE pistons and then your 1JZ head and plastic turbos (making a 1.5JZ). Altenatively you could decompress it using a thicker head gasket. I think Manny has built a 1.5JZ - why don't you chat to him. By the way, there is nothing magical about the 1JZ head - it just allows you to keep your 1JZ turbos. I couldn't help but flow test both heads and do some porting to bring the 1JZ head up to 2JZ spec.
Conversely you could decompress your 2JZ using a 2 or 3mm head gasket (readily available from the States) and fit a real turbo on a custom manifold. This is clearly a more expensive option.
You should also keep your eyes peeled for 2JZGTE bargains - they are out there.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Tue, 01 June 2004 08:13
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| gianttomato wrote on Tue, 01 June 2004 09:05 |
It would cope with anything you threw at it.
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If I were to do this, the car will be tunring into an all out drag car so do you think your statement would still apply?
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One option might be to buy a 2JZ 'bitsa' motor, fit it with 2JZGTE pistons and then your 1JZ head and plastic turbos (making a 1.5JZ). Altenatively you could decompress it using a thicker head gasket. I think Manny has built a 1.5JZ - why don't you chat to him.
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So aside from the compression that the different pistons make are they comparable in strenght ie. if you used a thicker head gasket to decompress it would the NA-T engine be as strong as a GTE?
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By the way, there is nothing magical about the 1JZ head - it just allows you to keep your 1JZ turbos. I couldn't help but flow test both heads and do some porting to bring the 1JZ head up to 2JZ spec.
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The only reason I would be using a 1jz head is if my bottom end is stuffed and the head is still good and I may have found a cheap 2jz-ge short block. So you have actually flow tested the 2 heads? I think many people would be very interested in knowing the results
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Conversely you could decompress your 2JZ using a 2 or 3mm head gasket (readily available from the States) and fit a real turbo on a custom manifold. This is clearly a more expensive option.
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As the car would be an all out drag car, this is the option that I would be doing. I don't think the CT12a's would be ANYWHERE near enough for a drag car 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
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Re: 2jz
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Tue, 01 June 2004 08:35
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The 2JZGE crank and rods are identical to the GTE variants. There are quite a few 4-500 hp NA-T 2JZGEs in the US running stock internals (apart from the thicker head gasket). Look on supraforums in the NA section and you'll stumble across "DaveH" his Mk4 runs 10.09 and he is NA-T. His spec sheet is somewhere there too.
You could always look for a 1JZGTE minus turbos. They do exist - you just have to scout around. Save you a lot of grief and would be the cheapest option.
I think your next cheapest option (if in fact your engine is dead) is to whack the 1JZ head on the 2JZ bottom end - you'll need to work out how you are going to run the crank angle sensor (I'd suggest 2JZGTE or VVTi 2JZGE oil pump has the right cut out for the sensor).
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Tue, 01 June 2004 09:24
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so it seems that you could make a 1.5JZ with:
2jz-ge block
1jz-gte head
2jz timing belt
2jz oil pump and crank angle sensor
3mm HG
gearbox to suit 2jz
What am I missing here? Sorry I am not feeling well and can't think
the NA-T guys use ARP Head studs, would I use the same for 1.5JZ?
thanks
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Tue, 01 June 2004 10:11
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Thanks
Just to clarify: if I find out that the 1jz has more than 42cc then the compression ratio would be lower than the 10:1 right? So if it is exactly the same then the 3mm HG would be good and if not then I would have to find somebody who has done it with a GE block? hmm I don't know how to calculate these compression ratios.
yep, that is what I was getting at
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I supported Toymods
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Registered:
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Re: 2jz
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Tue, 01 June 2004 10:22
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Yep if the head chamber capacity* is 42 cc, then your CR will be 10:1.
I calculated for someone else a few days ago that a 2mm head gasket would drop CR to around 8.7:1. I honestly can't be bothered doing the calcs again for a 3mm HG (particularly on an empty stomach)...I'll see how I feel after dinner.
* By head chamber capacity, I specifically mean the volume within the head. All you need to do is find a 1JZGTE head, get a small sheet of perspex, drill 2 holes (one to let out air and one to fill). Seal the chamber with the perspex sheet (use some Vaseline), then using a burette or a syringe, fill up the chamber (just use some colored water but be sure to dry thoroughly and hit it with some WD40 when you are done). When it is full, that is the head chamber capacity.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Tue, 01 June 2004 10:25
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thanks again!
Well I have a 1jz-gte head that I am going to pull off in the very near future so I will do it then.
thanks
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I supported Toymods
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I renounced punctuation
Registered:
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Tue, 01 June 2004 11:21
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I haven't personally built a 1.5JZ as I couldn't find a suitable shortblock (3 duds...) in the 12 months I was searching or someone I could trust to build it with confidence (I've never assembled any engines myself), so the project was shelved for 12 months unless a ready built one showed up.
I did however speak to numerous guys abroad who had built 1.5JZs and the consensus was that to maintain a 8.5:1 CR, a factory 2JZGTE headgasket was required as well as the 2JZGTE pistons/rings if using a a GE block. A GTE oil pump was also required if wanting to maintain GTE spec oil pressures.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
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Re: 2jz
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Wed, 02 June 2004 10:07
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Cool, thanks Manny. I had heard a while ago you were going to do it and thought you had gone through with it.
So there you go. If you run 2JZGTE pistons, you will keep the low compression. If you run GE pistons, you will need to decompress the motor with a thicker head gasket.
If you run some custom forged pistons, then the oil squirters become immaterial as the forgies don't have the oil galleries the stock pistons do.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 03:31
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Manny: regarding the dud 2jz blocks, what exactly were the problems with them so I can look out for them?
Also, I am assuming that my current 1jz-gte has oil squirters and as it uses the same block as the 2jz-ge, could I remove the oil squirters and fit them into the new block? I read somewhere that the GE block still has some markings of where they would go.
Also, if you were to run an aftermarket engine oil cooler would this negate the need for oil squirters?
thanks
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 03:35
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forgot to mention that I currently have a jzx90 chaser 1jz so it is front sump, I always forget but was it the Aristo that has the front sump 2jz therefore being a straight swap into what I currently have?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 03:36
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1jz and 2jz blocks are not the same
20mm diff in deck height for starters
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 03:38
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| Chris Davey wrote on Thu, 03 June 2004 13:31 |
Also, if you were to run an aftermarket engine oil cooler would this negate the need for oil squirters?
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they serve 2 entirely different functions
one cools the pistons, the other cools the oil
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 03:39
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same engine mounts though right?
I don't know what I was thinking 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 06:42
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Yep, same mounts, although because of the extra 23mm deck height of the 2JZ, the top of the engine will sit a little higher.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 07:50
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dave,
yes ive done a search, and will continue with my own reading, but could you outline what thet differences are between the gte and ge heads? looking at the images below, the coolant galleries are the same, quench area looks similar, even chamber volume looks similar. is the compression ratio an artefact of piston design (see other pic) or is there a few cc's in the head that i cant see from those pics?
what are the other major differences?
2JZGE
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2JZGTE
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PISTONS
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 09:41
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Ed, I'm pretty sure there is a difference in the pistons alone to bring about the decreased compression.
The pistons you have pictured below are mine - the one on the left is a 2JZGE and the one on the right is a 2JZGE VVTi piston. I know for a fact that the VVTi GE head chamber capacity is 41.7cc (so remarkably similar to the non VVTi GE head chamber capacity - I got it at around 42cc). The VVTi has a CR of 10.5:1 whilst the non VVTi has a 10:1 CR.
The head gaskets are the same and have a compressed height of 0.4mm.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2jz
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Thu, 03 June 2004 10:39
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Chris
Regarding the duds - first had extremely low compression on 5&6, 2nd had a hole in no 6 piston and the third was full of mud - above and below the pistons....
I'm sure it's not imposssible for someone with the right machinery and persistence, but based on the location of the 1JZ oil squirters, it would be a PITA to drill, bore and retro fit them on a GE block.
Ed
Don't know if it's important in the overall scheme of things, but doesn't the GE head also have have a dizzy hooked up on the forward exhaust side whereas the GTE doesnt? What is the exhaust port spacing like between the two 2J heads?
Anyone know how 1JZ-GTE pistons would go in a 2JZ-GE? No oil squirters would mean no issue with the lack of a clearance notch in the piston skirt.
I've got a set lying around somewhere...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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