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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 05:44
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Contemplating 3TGTE --> A6, just after any general opinions on this engine. Also - are they reliable? Are parts a PITA to get?
Thanks
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 06:06
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FWIW, my brother-in-law did this swap. He liked the engine. I don't think he had troubles getting parts. He did say that it was a hard engine to milk serious power above stock. Why? I don't know. I do know he upped the boost and installed an aftermarket ECU. If you have specific questions, I can relay them.
- J.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 06:16
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| Celia-Sue wrote on Tue, 05 August 2003 16:06 |
He did say that it was a hard engine to milk serious power above stock. - J.
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How'd he figure this? Ive been in an approx 12 second 3T-GTE (could be tuned for approx 11 second pass)
see the specs here
unfortunatley jamie hasnt been online for a long time, and his celica is now sold.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 06:20
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As I said above - I don't know the rationale behind the statement and I know NOTHING about these motors. He is a knowledgable bloke, so I'm inclined to give him a hearing. I'll be seeing him in the next few days, so I'll ask what sort of power he was looking for and why the 3T didn't meet his expectations.
cheers,
Justin
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 06:25
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I've got a 3T-GTE..
Specs :
1mm oversized forged pistons
Fully balanced
Heavy duty valve springs
CT20-B split pulse turbo - (20 psi boost)
Custom made manifold
Autronic SMC V1.91
MSD DIS-4 with direct fire ignition (no dizzy)
550cc 13B series 5 injectors
Custom made bar and plate intercooler
2.5 inch mandrel dump pipe with seperate wastegate pipe
2.5 inch mandrel bent exhaust
K&N Air Filter
550HP Bosch Pump
Surge tank with lift pump
Upgraded fuel lines (8mm)
Currently makes 146 rwkw. Which for 20psi... Hmm I think is a bit average..
I'm building a 3S-GTE to replace this engine shortly. They seem much easier to get serious figures out of.
But there are some tough 3Ts around.. YelloRolla is making close to 200rwkw!
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
mona vale,northern beache...
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 08:06
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yeah, i got one,they go alright...
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 08:16
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I've got a 3T GTE. They are reliable performers.
See signature - my car's performance is "getting there" (I don't know how quick you want to go), and there is just no real cheap way of going fast.
Build specs are
1mm oversize forged pistons
rebuilt using VL turbo chrome rings (ACL)
factory cams
custom exhaust manifold (by JMR)
custom plenum chamber (by JMR)
ported lower 1/2 of stock manifold
std. throttle body
CT 26 turbo (off 7M GTE) that's about all that is useful on a 7M
Plenty of bosst (24 psi)
Wolf 3D ver 3
Mazda series 4 rx -7 injectors
Makes approx. 190 rwKw at 6500 rpm.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 05 August 2003 13:00
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Stefan,
Mate the 3TGTE in the right hands is a tried and true performer and a reliable engine. Its not state of the art and it isn't the be all and end all.
Any engines performance depends alot on how dedicated its owner is to looking after it and keeping it in correct working order.
Jamies 3TGTE had some pretty decent specs and came with some very high claims from its previous owner. Its just a real shame he never got it on a Dyno himself 
Jasons package is not to be sneezed at, Is it cheap... NO ! Affordable.. I beleive so and hey you get what you pay for. If your not prepared to do it right don't get a 3TGTE. !
Its not a forgiving engine if you don't look after it or ensure its properly tuned. If your prepared to actually do things properly it has alot of scope and is a tidy little performer.
I am building one but it doesn't run yet so comments hear are based on persoanl expeirence with both my Brothers 3TGTE Celica's and of course what I have observed personally within the club. Read up all you can but treat everything with a grain of salt. Too many people blame their own incomptetance on the engine rather than admit they made a mistake or were to cheap to do it right !
Hope that helps.
As a guide Scrote's 3TGTE is Completely Dead stock. It turned 94 or 95 RWKW last Dyno day. No intercooler, Factory ECU just a complete stocker thats been looked over properly by people who know what they are doing. (Dave at SAS spent time ensuring it was all right. And it shows when you drive it !)
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Wed, 06 August 2003 02:26
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Thanks all. I am very strongly considering buying a 3tgte w/ VG30 BB turbo. This swap appeals to me because:
* Jap versions of my car (Ta6xs)came with this engine, so it's a 'factory' conversion using factory parts and should be straightforward. It's the performance engine the A6 celi was menat to have. They rallied ta6xs with it's bigger brother, the 4tgte, No custom mounts/xmember etc hopefully means easier/cheaper to engineer.
* Hopefully lighter than the 22RE (handling benefit)
* Being a factory turboed engine, and the stock ECU adds fuel according to boost, it has a lot of upgrade potential and should repsond well to mods.
Celica-sue - what do you define as "serious" power? Your statement suprises me, as the fact this engine would respond well to mods is one of its main appeals. I assume most people who have replied have read about Matti Kalihatis' (sp, I can never spell the surname!) 3tgte Carina, given that his site is a toy encyclopoadeia. He seemed to get a lot out of his still using the stock ECU.I don't want CRAZY wheelspin-in-all-5-gears-can't-drive-it-in-the-wet power, this car has to be a daily driver. My aim with modding the car is to make it more fun to drive.
Downsides of the 3tgte engine are:
*potential costs/problems with conversion
*lack of low end
I'd be loosing cubes. The a6 is a heavier car than the a2 (that a lot of 3tgte conversions go into) I love torque, and can't stand engines you have to rev the piss out of and change gears all the time just to get anyhting out of and up hills. (but no, I don't like the other extreme of local V engines either) If the 3tgte spins up quickly, and has a fat midrange once the turbo kicks in at 3-3.5k revs, then that would more than compensate, and I imagine I would love the rush of torque once the turbo kicks in. If it would be a dog off boost though.... this car is my only car, I drive it everyday, and I don't want it to be laborious to drive. It has to be a streetable daily driver.
The other variable is that I have already bought a package of gear (not yet recived or installed) to wake up my 22RE. Now, before anyone scoffs at this, it was a reasonable price, is tried and tested in the US and would give me 150+ relible stock-looking horses and a fat midrange. And torque. The combination is well within the tuneability of the stock analog ecu too (fresh head w/ OS SS valves, 268* stage 2 cam, early supra larger AFM, 210cc injectors, and i would mild DIY port the head using photos from other people's work on these engines). For the little outlay it would really pep up this car and keep it very streetable. Almost 50% increase in power over stock, If I only want 150+ NA horses, this is the viable way to do it. BUT the bottom end would be 200,00ks old, and further mods would not be viable.
The 3TGTE, on the other hand... would have to be internally stock (due to budget), but with the better turbo, IC, some way of changing the boost... maybee bigger injectors. Exhaust. Be a fun project for the end of the year.
Sorry about the very long ramble!
thanks
Stefan
BTW Anyone have any idea how hard to come buy/expensive a loom would be? Or ecu? Or how much to budget for IC piping? And what is the redline? 
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Registered:
May 2003
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Wed, 06 August 2003 08:10
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A few problems, with the stock ECU you'll loose boost at 5,000rpm, not hard with a VG30DET
My VRS kit cost me about $500 that wasn't even gfor a toyota genuine, they wanted about $600!!!
The older model 3TGTE's are oil cooled, I'm not a big fan of oil cooled anythings...
Twin spark means twice the leads and plugs to replace, the dizzy will be harder to replace and get rotors and caps for, plus it makes timing and tuning a fun job!
Have a look into a cheap 3SGTE or even a 4AGZE... a lot easier to maintain and aquire bits and peices for, after all the gripes with my 3TGTE I definatly don't want it anymore
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Fri, 08 August 2003 04:20
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Loose boost at 5k rpm? WTF? Surely not! Can anyone else clear this up?
What's a VRS kit?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Fri, 08 August 2003 04:28
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Hmm I don't understand that statement.
The factory ECU has a fuel cut at 7.5 psi boost from memory, or there abouts. This is VERY easy to bypass though, its just a pressure switch.
Apart from this there isn't any limiting controls on the stock ECU. They are a very basic ECU! Turbos are a mechanical device with a mechanical wastegate.. The ECU has no control over the boost vs RPM.. The ECU doesn't even control ignition, only fuel.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Fri, 08 August 2003 04:33
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Yep. His turbo was prolly f#$%ed. I ran mine with no Knock computer and had no pressure switches ran 17psi everyday ran a best 14.1 on factory computer (I feel that there is considerable improvements are possible with the factory computer)
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 02:14
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Any other thoughts anyone? My main concern is complete lack of torque off boost... that a small disp low comp engine in a heavy car will be no fun at all off boost, especially if most of the time is spent off boost rather than on.
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Sat, 16 August 2003 09:53
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bump
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Sun, 17 August 2003 05:50
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what about something like a 1ggte ??
that seems to be a better avenue for a6's
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Sun, 17 August 2003 23:50
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Ultimately, a silky smooth 2l I6 would be lovely, but also prohibitvely expensive. For me, it's not going to happen anytime soon. So it's not really an option. A 3tgte conversion is:
* cheaper
* should give better handling/balance (should be lighter and sit further back)
* can get ta6x xmember etc to bolt right in w/out mods, so is an easier conversion. No custom rad stuff either.
* it's cheaper
* should be easier to get RTA/enginnering approval and possibly even insurance
* it's the perfoprmance engine the A6 was meant to have, if purism counts for anythign these days.
* umm, it's cheaper
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 01:13
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How much cheaper is it?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 09:27
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last check a 1ggte was much cheaper to buy than a 3tgte ..
by about a grand
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Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Tue, 19 August 2003 13:42
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I've got a 3TGTE in my TA23. It has been tuned properly and goes very hard. I recommend it, even though it may cost a little bit more. But hey, twin spark, I like it.
Later
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Wed, 20 August 2003 04:25
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i rang up a toyota wrecker place a couple of years ago and the 1G was about $5000 or $5800 can't remember, fully installed (pretty sure, hope so for the price) and the 3T was about $3800. the 3S was something over $8000 nearly $9000 i think. dunno if that helps or not.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Wed, 20 August 2003 05:52
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Holy crap dude, $5k?? Are you sure you didn't ask for a 2JZ or something? I don't think 1G's have ever been that expensive! 
1G-GTE half cuts are around the $2-2.5k mark these days, and engine packages can be had for significantly less.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Wed, 20 August 2003 06:50
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Hi
5 grand for a 1GGTE supplied and fitted by a workshop sounds about right.
I have been in a few 3TGTE's in TA22 Celica's and they are a great little performance package. Good power/weight and nice handling.
-Regards Mike
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Wed, 20 August 2003 10:54
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Does anyone know.... prob silly questions, but if I fit a 3tgte to my current W55, do I use the 3t flywheel etc and my current clutch?
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: General opinions on 3TGTE?
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Wed, 20 August 2003 12:41
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Yes you will use the 3TGTE flywheel and the clutch should mate up ok. Not 100% sure it will match in terms or the pressure plate bolt pattern but the gearbox spline will match.
Mind you it may not be strong enough depending whats in it ? Speak to Phil at Pittwater Brake and clutch (02 9913 8550) if you do need a new one. All FINANCIAL Toymods members get trade price down there and he will ship parts around no worries. I can't recomend him highly enough. NOt only has it saved me HUndred but he is a nice guy as well.
And yes that was a shameless plug for one of our Forums sponsors but I meant every word !
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Location:
vic
Registered:
May 2002
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