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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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 MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 07:08
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Hello I own a MA61 Supra '84 model.
It came with the SOHC 5Me engine. And I'd like to drop in a DOHC engine like 5Mge or may be 7Mge or something. But I can't find much info regarding those mods. I mean which engine will bolt on to the manual gear box and engine mounts without too much fuss? What else do I need for the job apart from abvius ECU (igniter pack?, radiator? what about the headers and the exhaust? etc.
Would appreciate if anyone out there could point me toward some info on the subject.
Also looking for the LSD to fit my MA61, the one currently on it is an open wheeler and it's got a bit of diff lash happening...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 07:55
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There should be a fair bit of information if you do a search.
Depending on how much money you have. A 1JZ-GTE halfcut should set you back $2.5k-$3k, not sure how common the manual ones are though. The should pretty much give you everything you need for the conversion.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 07:58
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in terms of engine conversions... sure the 1/2jz is the ultimate, but that's probably out of your price range. your best bet would the the 6m-ge or 7m-ge (or 7m-gte if you're after more ponies and dont mind insurance prices through the roof)
all of these are fairly straight forward (as far as engine conversions go). there is heaps of info around, plus a few people who have done it. they might post here, or you might have to search the forums
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Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 08:05
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5MGE head is direct bolt on..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 08:42
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| Mazda626 wrote on Thu, 07 August 2003 18:05 |
5MGE head is direct bolt on..
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Umm yeah...sure, if you change the pistons, the timing chain to a timing belt, get the right manifolds etc   sure it might "bolt on" but there is heaps more to it (much better off just getting a whole 5mge)!
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 09:11
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| Mazda626 wrote on Thu, 07 August 2003 18:05 |
5MGE head is direct bolt on..
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Ohh really i must remember todo that on a non-fly cut 5m-e piston equiped bottom end, after changing all the timing gear over the extra power till all the valves bend will be awesome 
Really look for some discarded 7m-gte with loom and ecu, with a BHG spend a few hundred geting head/block surfaced same on ARP studs and a stock HG so it dosent happen again, it will even bolt up to your current manual gearbox until you can afford a R154
engine mounts from the 5m will bolt strait on and all you need is the alloy A/C compressor bracket from a 7m-ge equiped cressida
more fun then hot sex with a girl whos militant islamic brothers carry daggers and stockpile fertiliser!
Allan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 10:35
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| Allan wrote on Thu, 07 August 2003 19:11 |
more fun then hot sex with a girl whos militant islamic brothers carry daggers and stockpile fertiliser!
Allan
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Oh my, thats one of the better calls I've heard in a while! 
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 11:04
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nah nah nah get a FE block mazda engine in there there fully sick and very powerfully lotz KW!!!!! will pull like 165kph in 4th man!!!!!!
Allan
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 11:13
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2jzge.
similar power to 7mgte, less insurance hassles
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 11:15
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and a much bigger pain in the arse to get in there
this guy's obviously on a budget, so I was thinking M series would be the best bet, as most stuff bolts up
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 11:34
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| STR8 2.8 wrote on Thu, 07 August 2003 21:13 |
2jzge.
similar power to 7mgte, less insurance hassles
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But custom engine mounts and geting more power out of a 2jz = big $$$ geting more power out of a 7m-gte = bleeder valve
and an insurance company will bone you as much for a 2jz as a 7m-gte probably!
Allan
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 12:35
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2jzge doesn't attain the turbo stigma, and its within the 15% owner certifiable capacity increase for the car, also comes from a newer model of the same car (as does the 1jzgte and 2jzgte i know but they have 2 hairdryers off the side)
Its the ultimate N/A, non-insurance ass rammed (1uz), MA61 conversion.......if thats a sentence.
A 2jzge is not cheap either, will set you back about the same as a 7mgte done on the tight.
bellhousing and mounts will come in handy down the track though.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 12:41
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Getting back to the original point, the dude just wants a DOHC engine with a bit more poke so a 5M-GE or 6M-GE is the way to go IMO. Obivously the 6M-GE is the better option if you can find a decent one, but even a 5M-GE is a significant upgrade.
Either way, it's an easy swap and there is plenty of info available if you do a bit of looking. I've done both swaps in my MA61's (and a 2JZ-GTE as well) so if you have any specific questions, fire away. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 12:48
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So norbs can I put a 5M-GE head straight on my 5M-E 
(sorry couldn't resist!  )
Seriously tho 5M-GE or 6M-GE (or even 7M-GE) sounds like a good idea for the budget conscious!
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 13:01
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| wilbo666 wrote on Thu, 07 August 2003 22:48 |
So norbs can I put a 5M-GE head straight on my 5M-E
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That depends if you expect it to run after you bolt it on!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 13:16
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hehehe, actually norbs, after calculating all the factory piston/valve tolerances last week, you could probably land a boeing on the piston tops and still not hit the valves...
NOT that this is a reason to do it, its still an astoundingly dumb suggestion, but believe me when i say "flycuts do nothing"
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 07 August 2003 15:23
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6MGE is the budget DOHC conversion. Less than 1K for the motor, another 150 for the dizzy mods and you're away.
Do a search. This has actually been covered at least 1 million times.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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 Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 01:05
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Thanks Dudes
Appreciate all your responses. You are right to assume I'm on a tight budget. Also can't afford to have the car off the road for too long. And last but not least this is my first conversion job, so I'd like to start off by doing something fairly straight forward. From what I've learned here so fare, 5Mge would probably be the way to go for me.
I wonder is the exhaust ports similar enough on 5Mge to reuse my 5Me extractors?
Also my poor open wheeler diff has had a long and hard life, I feel a few more good dumps and it'll blow to pieces. Does anyone know where I can get an LSD? Can the current diff be rebuilt and modified (short of actually welding it shut) to become an LSD?
Thanks
Raf
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 01:14
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| rafski wrote on Fri, 08 August 2003 11:05 |
I wonder is the exhaust ports similar enough on 5Mge to reuse my 5Me extractors?
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The port spacing is the same but the stud pattern is totally different so you won't be able to reuse them. You could use extractors for a 7MGE as they are the same. Obviously they are designed for a Cressida MX83 or MA70 Supra, so they may need to be modified to fit in your MA61 (I don't know, but I'm just describing the worst case scenario). That said there is nothing wrong with the std manifold and it's there already - just get the engine pipes made the same ID as the outlet for the manifold and then join them into a collector at about 600mm. Spend a bit of time match porting everything. Run no more than a 2.25" system.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 01:42
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Good luck finding a 5m-ge of 6m-ge(especialy the 6m)
i phoned places all around australia looking for them and the responce wasnt very good
getting old and rare!
a 7m-ge would be a bit of alright though
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 01:49
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haha cyberpunk, how hard did you try?
There will be plenty of places in sydney at least with 5mge's and 6mge's. There is a place at greenacre that keeps the 6m in stock, can't quite remember the name, alternatively www.ichiban.com.au can get them in if not in stock. Some other places will bluntly deny that the engine ever existed (even if you are willing to show them the one under the bonnet!!)
ZZT231- two possibilites, its crapped itself much like the description given and has become a single spinner, or when the original crapped itself a celica one was popped in being much cheaper at the time.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 01:52
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Yeah, all Aus-delivered MA61's came with LSD from the factory. If it's behaving like a single-spinner, take it to a diff shop and get the clutch packs shimmed. Costs a couple of hundred bucks if you take the centre out yourself.
The 7M-GE is a good thing but more of a headache to install (totally different electronics etc). I'd spend a lot of time searching for a 6M before I resorted to that option.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 02:04
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I hate to say this but if your car is an Australian Spec and stock it is fitted with an LSD 
Check the last suffix on the engine placard, if it i believe ending in a 3 or 5 it is LSD... (Anyone correct me if I am wrong)
yah I heard that too. And according to the compliance plate it shoudl be an LSD. But I had it up on hoist and it's not, anyhow it doesn't behave like one during burnouts either.
If it was a viscous coupling diff do you think it's just a metter of recondioning it? Besides is there anything on the diff that you can look up to determine if it's an LSD or open wheeler?
Raf
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 02:09
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Raf,
If possible, go the 6M. From what I've read, it's not much harder to swap than the 5M and performs much better. They are getting rare though (I couldn't source one in WA). Good luck! As for diffs, have you had a hunt around your local Toyota wreckers?
- Justin
Learning from experience that 1JZ into MA-61 is not a simple conversion.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 02:13
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| Quote: |
Learning from experience that 1JZ into MA-61 is not a simple conversion.
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Stop Whinging
Yes i shall second the replacement of the bolt and key! Trust me its the biggest pain in the ass when the keyway is worn and you attempt to source 6m parts for it! (it wont happen). Had to buy a spare engine and swap the crankshaft over in the end!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 02:14
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| rafski wrote on Fri, 08 August 2003 12:04 |
yah I heard that too. And according to the compliance plate it shoudl be an LSD. But I had it up on hoist and it's not, anyhow it doesn't behave like one during burnouts either.
If it was a viscous coupling diff do you think it's just a metter of recondioning it? Besides is there anything on the diff that you can look up to determine if it's an LSD or open wheeler?
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MA61's have a clutch-type LSD, and when they get old and worn they start behaving like a single-spinner. Mine is like this at the moment - every time I stab the throttle, a single tyre spins (and this happens a lot, believe me). Anyway as I said above, it's a simple procedure for a diff shop to re-tighten the clutch packs and restore the LSD functionality.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Fri, 08 August 2003 02:31
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| Norbie wrote on Fri, 08 August 2003 12:14 |
MA61's have a clutch-type LSD, and when they get old and worn they start behaving like a single-spinner. Mine is like this at the moment - every time I stab the throttle, a single tyre spins (and this happens a lot, believe me). Anyway as I said above, it's a simple procedure for a diff shop to re-tighten the clutch packs and restore the LSD functionality.
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Thanx Norbie you're a champion dude, I'm gonna take this diff to a doctor...
Raf
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sat, 09 August 2003 01:15
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Maybe it was just when i was looking earlier this year...or perhaps i wasnt being clear enough on the phone
I was just quoting my personal experience...but if you can pick upa 6m-ge go for gold son! they pull pretty well 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sat, 09 August 2003 05:42
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better off going for a 7m-GE then 6m a lot more common and once you get the 5m dizzy in the 7m head(not that hard) you could probably run the 7m off the 5m-e ecu for the extreme cheap seats.
Allan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sat, 09 August 2003 06:26
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I would have said a 7MGE is the way to go. YOu can get a half cut for under $1500 and they're supposed to have around 140kW which will go pretty good in a Mk2.
If you're going turbo, I'd say that a 2JZGTE is the way to go - if you can't afford it, save your money until you can.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 01:57
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Geez, the guy is on a budget - why fork out for a front cut when you can get a bare 5M/6M-GE and just plug it in to the existing ECU etc? As for the 2JZ... now you're just being silly.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 02:21
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I think a 7m-ge would be better then a 6m-ge as far as finding one cheap and in reasonable condition,
look at that curtian loven Ed he got plenty of 7m bits for a very good price and even better has done a lot of work allredy on how to get a bit extra out of them!
Allan
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 02:28
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| Allan wrote on Sun, 10 August 2003 12:21 |
look at that curtian loven Ed he got plenty of 7m bits for a very good price and even better has done a lot of work allredy on how to get a bit extra out of them!
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plenty is a bit of an understatement allan
getting a bit extra out of it is also hopefully a bit of an understatement
but yeah, the 7mge is real easy to pick up cheap (usually with a BHG) after someone does a gte or jz conversion. id dare say its easier and cheaper than buying even a 5mge from a comercial engine source.
whether or not you want to try and run it off the 5me ECU is up to you. yeah, you 'could' do it, but for the minor buggering around it takes to do the wiring, id just run the 7m ECU...
and 7mge parts are really easy to get...
cheers
ed
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 03:41
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well Ed Share the rich's with your fellow 7m supra owning buddys!!!!!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 03:46
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well, what do you want - ive pretty much sorted the stuff im keeping...
and YOU can get me some CHEAP mild 1.5" ID mandrel bends buddy!
cheers
ed
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 04:11
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| Quote: |
why fork out for a front cut when you can get a bare 5M/6M-GE
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Because generally a 5M/6M is a lot more tired than a 7M... and a half cut will come with a warranty. And a 7M is considerably more power then the 5M (and probably 6M also). 140kW...
I was massively overstating the cost of a half cut also... more like $1200 I'd suggest.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 04:23
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Just to be the devil's advocate , some models of the 6MGE actually have the same power and MORE torque than the 7MGE.
I have never seen a 7MGE front cut. Some wreckers are wary of selling them given the BHG issue. Ed's suggestion of doing the human seagull and picking the remnants of a 1JZ conversion for a case of beer seems like the best bet. Heck, I bought one (complete with BHG, loom, ECU, AP clutch and W58) for 600. One weekend to drop it in and replace the BHG, and another to sort out the wiring and you're away.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 08:19
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Will always take longer than you beleive.
Will also require the swapping over of sumps from the 5m.
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Location:
cronulla
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 11:38
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ive heard the 1GZFE is a strait bolt in and can be put in with a small budget, i dont think it would effect your insurance either, and if you were after a bit more hp you could just bolt a 5MGE head on.
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Location:
cronulla
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 11:48
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last time i was there, Big Johns junkyard at campbelltown had a black u.s import MA61 with a complete and running 6MGE motor with everything he was asking 600.
ps for all you MA61 owners, it has already been completely raided for anything that was still intact besides the motor.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Sun, 10 August 2003 11:52
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New prompts when clicking reply:
1,
Have you read the entire threed before posting your reply?
2,
Are you shure?
3,
Really REALLY shure??? because you know im going to get a glowing red hot cattle brand and stamp DICKHEAD on your forhead if you have not!!!
Thank you JAZE you can now remove your head from your ass and let the branding begin!
Allan
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Mon, 11 August 2003 06:49
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ahah
easiest and cheapest way is definatley to bolt on a 5mge head as jaze said
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Mon, 11 August 2003 08:15
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cleverness really breeds around here doesnt it...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Mon, 11 August 2003 08:22
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haha that it does
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Mon, 11 August 2003 11:52
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Mon, 11 August 2003 18:15 |
cleverness really breeds around here doesnt it...
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to take from the "shallow end of the gene pool" idea i would say this would be the toddlers wading pool in some cases
Allan
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Location:
cronulla
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Mon, 11 August 2003 13:17
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sorry, i forgot that in the serious world of toyota modifications having a little light hearted fun is taking it too far.
my appologies to all you intelegent, serious, important people out there that my post offended. my complete lack of inteligence has clearly reared its ugly head once again. i guess i should go back to dating my cousin eh?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Tue, 12 August 2003 00:46
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not the 1gzfe dude, its the 5mge call...
settle down...
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Location:
cronulla
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Tue, 12 August 2003 12:56
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i was refering to bolting the 5MGE head ton the 1GZFE............,
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:43
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just looking in future for my ma61-
the 5m-ge head bolt on- so do i only need the head, cams, pistons, manifolds, timing belts, etc...
roughly how much would this cost?
im also considering a 7m-gte conversion...
whats involved exactly?
engine, ecu, wiring and loom etc, exhaust, anything else?
thankyou. i have used the search function.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:46
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| Evil_Foetus wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 17:43 |
just looking in future for my ma61-
the 5m-ge head bolt on- so do i only need the head, cams, pistons, manifolds, timing belts, etc...
roughly how much would this cost?
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have you read this thread?
dont even think about it.
go 7m, or better yet (in my eyes) 2jzge
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:53
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It would cost you more than to buy a 5MGE, or a 7MGE, and quite possibly a 2JZGE.
Not recommended.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: MA61 Supra Engine Conversions
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Thu, 08 January 2004 08:08
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yay! thanks y'all. black supra, im going to have a good and big read of your site...
im still thinking 7m-gte... cheaper, (on tright budget) and seems easier.
thanks y'all. 
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