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Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 02:06
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I got a set of 17"x7.5" wheels and the height is fine, there just a bit wide, are spacers legal in New south wales, and if so where can i get them?
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 02:23
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nope and any auto parts store has em
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Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 05:40
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so their illegal? and you can buy them?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 05:49
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if their illegal the chances are preety slim wouldnt you think ?
plus youd be voiding your insurance if they are on the car and you smash it
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 05:52
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| SCO-77K wrote on Mon, 11 August 2003 15:40 |
so their illegal? and you can buy them?
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Correct. Just like neons and washer LEDs.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 06:07
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and aftermarket ECU's and larger turbo's and big bore exhausts
just because its on the market doesnt mean its legally allowed to be used on the road.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 08:21
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 Theres always one pfft
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 23:22
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Gidday
A black and white answer on this is not appropriate. Certain types of wheel spacers are not legal - that is those that you would buy from the store that just sit between the rim and the hub - using longer stuts or whatever.
If however the spacer is manufactured so that it bolts to the hub and the studs are contained in the spacer it may be legal. (will try and load a photo). The issue in this circumstance is whether it effects the track of the vehicle - I think that the RTA allows 2" overall. So if you are trying to adapt dirrent offset rims to you car the right type of spacers can be employed. If you are setting up your car for Drift - bad luck.
Craig
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Mon, 11 August 2003 23:26
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It helps if you weld them to the hub as well.
Well in ACT anyway.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 00:27
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seeing as hubs are cast material, that aint the prettiest idea either
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 01:28
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ddeane,
you mean something like this right...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 01:29
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shit, helps if I actually post the image... 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 01:30
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The one on the left....I don't like the idea of changing the PCD like the other one dies...
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 01:31
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When i bought my mags i got a round plastic washer tipe thing to put on the hubs, are they spacers?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 01:44
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franky, that one to the left is BADDD!!!
notice how it doesnt have any central step/shoulder for the wheel to locate on?
hub bolts are only meant to deliver tourque to the wheel, not suport the weight of the car - thats what the shoulder is for. youll need one with a shoulder for an engineer to even consider it.
notice the right one DOES have a shoulder (but then its a 6-5 adapter - which i dont like the looks of)
cheers
ed
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 02:47
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I've got spacers on the fronts of my black celica and my mechanic won't touch it unless it has different rims on it. Here at least they are not legal, and yes I am getting them replaced soon 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 02:56
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give us a break best i could do on short notice!
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 03:08
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The ones on the right are the same as the ones I used on my car. The car was engineered (NSW) with them on. Remember they only changes the overall track by less than 2". The Wheel Factory at Queanbeyan made them for me. AS you can see they bolt onto the hub with the original wheel nuts.
Craig
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 08:14
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So what is the 'legal' option if you only need about 3mm to space the bulge of the tyre off the strut?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 09:23
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Just buy rims with the correct offset,
you don't want to fuck around with your wheel track otherwise you stuff up your scrub radius angle, if you move your center line of your wheel further out from the car you may get to the point where you get a negative scrub radius angle which is bad, what that means is under hard breaking "heavy load" the wheels will get a toe out effect which mean it makes the car unstable under hard braking and if you then chuck in the effects of a brake failure so only one front wheel actually brakes then add that in with toe out and you have a very unstable car and good luck keeping it on the road.
RTA has specs and they are actually there for a reason, you increase the track on your car and you then put more load on bearings and pivot points ect, i actually think the most your aloud to increase the track on the car is by 25mm and thats not 25mm on side its a total figure so the most you can move a wheel's center line out from the hub is 12.5mm the reason the RTA came up with this is cars probably have to come out from the factory and be able to run 25mm wider track while still remaining a GOOD "  " positive scrub radius.
Mercedes benz wanted to put larger brakes on their new cars but to do so they had to move the wheel further out from the car which then meant they now had a bad negative scrub radius. now to overcome this they had to come up with a three link front end design so the front wheels now had 3 control arms.
a lot of testing and design goes into a cars suspension set up and angle, and if you start fucking with those angles then you will begin to loose out on handling and safety. and increase wear to other components.
wheel bearings are designed to withstand a certain amount of load for the vehicle you move the center line of the wheel further out from the car and you are now placing more load on that bearing reducing its life maybe even to the point of sudden failure.
you may think moving your wheel track out a few cm's not to be that big a deal but when you think about toe-in toe-out meassured in only a couple of mm's and camber usually talked about in 1-2' then i think a couple of cm's would make a rather large differance.
don't be a tight arse and buy 2nd hand rims with the right stud pattern go out and buy some wheels with the corect offset, and everything else.you can increase your tyre width without affecting your wheel track.
and if you are doing a complete custom job to your car and have to mess with the wheel track and so forth then do a few calculations and modify other elements of the suspension the car will still handle good and remain safe.
"shit day at work turns me into a complaining prick"
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 09:30
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but an informative complaining prick 
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Tue, 12 August 2003 09:43
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I think that the complaining prick gives good advice. I used the spacers on the rear of the car only to compensate for the increased track at the front (and thus the use of different offset wheels) due to the use of rt134 struts and hubs.
Craig
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Wed, 13 August 2003 07:02
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Yes good info, but i also needed this rim offset to make the wheels sit further under ther car. After i changed the struts etc, i gained a lil extra track width due to the new hubs.
GIN51E Maybe you should not assume that everyone is doing dodgy work!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Wed, 13 August 2003 11:58
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| Dylo wrote on Wed, 13 August 2003 17:02 |
GIN51E Maybe you should not assume that everyone is doing dodgy work!
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whoa, now there's a tough call
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Wed, 13 August 2003 21:15
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Where in my message did i make the call that EVERYONE is doing dodgy work?
I was just stating some points and explaining what can happen when you play around with wheels and suspension, i didn't direct it at anyone but if i was too then it would be directed at the majority of people as i know there is more people out there that know jack shit about this while there is a group out there that know to use correct offsets ect.
Anyway i say it again where did i suggest that EVERYONE! is doing dodgy work?
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Wed, 13 August 2003 22:52
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Thats all well and true however theres always an exception to the rule... AE86's for example love extra track.. it seems they were designed with just a tad too little track! adding 20mm each side front and rear does WONDERS for the car, sure it may wear out things a little faster (i've never been able to measure the rate of wear so i wouldnt know) but the handling, stability and controlability provided is simply awesome!
S
| GIN51E wrote on Tue, 12 August 2003 19:23 |
Just buy rims with the correct offset,
you don't want to fuck around with your wheel track otherwise you stuff up your scrub radius angle, if you move your center line of your wheel further out from the car you may get to the point where you get a negative scrub radius angle which is bad, what that means is under hard breaking "heavy load" the wheels will get a toe out effect which mean it makes the car unstable under hard braking and if you then chuck in the effects of a brake failure so only one front wheel actually brakes then add that in with toe out and you have a very unstable car and good luck keeping it on the road.
RTA has specs and they are actually there for a reason, you increase the track on your car and you then put more load on bearings and pivot points ect, i actually think the most your aloud to increase the track on the car is by 25mm and thats not 25mm on side its a total figure so the most you can move a wheel's center line out from the hub is 12.5mm the reason the RTA came up with this is cars probably have to come out from the factory and be able to run 25mm wider track while still remaining a GOOD " " positive scrub radius.
Mercedes benz wanted to put larger brakes on their new cars but to do so they had to move the wheel further out from the car which then meant they now had a bad negative scrub radius. now to overcome this they had to come up with a three link front end design so the front wheels now had 3 control arms.
a lot of testing and design goes into a cars suspension set up and angle, and if you start fucking with those angles then you will begin to loose out on handling and safety. and increase wear to other components.
wheel bearings are designed to withstand a certain amount of load for the vehicle you move the center line of the wheel further out from the car and you are now placing more load on that bearing reducing its life maybe even to the point of sudden failure.
you may think moving your wheel track out a few cm's not to be that big a deal but when you think about toe-in toe-out meassured in only a couple of mm's and camber usually talked about in 1-2' then i think a couple of cm's would make a rather large differance.
don't be a tight arse and buy 2nd hand rims with the right stud pattern go out and buy some wheels with the corect offset, and everything else.you can increase your tyre width without affecting your wheel track.
and if you are doing a complete custom job to your car and have to mess with the wheel track and so forth then do a few calculations and modify other elements of the suspension the car will still handle good and remain safe.
"shit day at work turns me into a complaining prick"
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Wed, 13 August 2003 23:25
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Did you actually read what he said? Nowhere did he say your car would handle worse with the wrong offset. He was talking about safety, not performance!
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Thu, 14 August 2003 00:05
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in the first paragraph he mentioned it.
we all know they are not legal. I dont run spacers atm but why wheel centre doesnt even sit on the hub lip!
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Thu, 14 August 2003 02:25
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Just adding to what GIN51E said, increasing the overall diameter of the wheels will have the opposite effect but to a smaller magnitude.
Not that I suggest that you go for 20in rims just to push the wheels out 1/2 an inch. Just thought I would reaffirm his concernes.
Personsally, when I bought my car it was already sitting a couple of inch's lower than standard. It looks great (could do with a bit more height at the back) but it handles like shite. These cars can be made to handle well if you get them set up right. The problem is that you can't just chuck in some lower springs, hard as nails and expect them to handle well. Doing that has stuffed up the front and rear end geometry of my car. There will be a lot of moving of hinge points to get it to handle right, but thats the price you have to pay to get an early celica to handle well.
I guess thats why the RTA expects an Engineer to approve any changes. You guys have a heap of freedom when it comes to modifying cars. In the aviation industry, you can't even change the tyre brand or specifications without engineering approval.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Thu, 14 August 2003 02:35
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I think spacers may have been mentioned when we were casting about for mags...I dismissed this on the spot. Whether it's legal or not, I wouldn't hear of it. (I'm no engineer, mind you, but even I recognised the potential to "solve" one problem, while introducing others...)
Even when we got our brakes done, the possibility of increased track was mentioned...Again, my response was "find another way" which, luckily for me, they did!
As for the "hub-extenders" (The "correct" term for JCMF's pics above), it seems as though a hybrid of the two may be the way to go, if you're so inclined...BTW, Ed, totally agree with your summation of the LHS unit! *shudders while thinking of the studs supporting an entire corner of the car, whilst involved in "spirited" driving*  
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Thu, 14 August 2003 14:33
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Hehe, yes, they are dodgy, for some reason I couldn't find the nice ones I'd found previously that were a much better design.
The thing I'm curious about though is the legalities of running hub extenders to restore the track. Mk2 Supras came with a 7" rim and a +8mm offset. Finding decent rims is nigh on impossible without going to $$ Simmons and the like. Fitting hub extenders would open up a multitude of rims such as any designed for an S13 Silvia.
With a properly designed hub extender, whats the problem?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Thu, 14 August 2003 23:54
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hmmm, so what if your car originally had no step for the rims to sit on?? and was originally held up by the bolts?? does that mean it sucks and is unsafe??
are the parallel wheel nuts that go through the rim better than the conical ones which push aginst the rim (like stocker steel rims)??
Cya, Stewart
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Wheel spacers?
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Sat, 16 August 2003 03:13
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old corollas it all comes down to how the car was designed, where the designer wanted the oad to be transferred to an so forth. things are differant from make to make but they are designed to be differant and safe for example differant size studs, working loads, metal compound ect.
why do most cars use wheel nuts while Mercedes uses wheel bolts?
comes down to the designer
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