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V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

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Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003

Strut tower brace on ma61?	Sun, 17 August 2003 12:40

Has anyone whos done a high performance ma61 transplant ever put a strut tower brace for added chassis strenght? Is it neccessary for an engine putting out 400+hp? [Report message to a moderator]

Norbie
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Brisbane
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Sun, 17 August 2003 14:11

Strut tower braces have nothing to do with engine power, and everything to do with handling. The idea is to keep the suspension geometry as accurate as possible by preventing the strut towers from flexing under heavy cornering loads. [Report message to a moderator]

STR8 2.8
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Sydney
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February 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 03:03

are there any available for an ma61, or do they have to be custom built? [Report message to a moderator]

BlackSupra
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Registered:
August 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 03:05

Custom dont waste your money on a standard car [Report message to a moderator]

STR8 2.8
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Sydney
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February 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 03:16

ok, yes i wasnt actually thinking of doing it, just curious. i have mayn other things to do first...ie removing the boat anchor [Report message to a moderator]

rob_RA40
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c'town, NSW
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 05:23

was chatting to the bloke at whiteline who was putting in some bits for Abe's blue corona and he reckons on 20 year old cars a strut braces can make quite a difference with the tired steel in the strut towers. [Report message to a moderator]

BlackSupra
Forums Junkie

Registered:
August 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 05:39

With knowledge there will be an engine swap, its probably best until the motor is swapped, then the bar be fabricated around the new obstruction thats all. [Report message to a moderator]

STR8 2.8
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Sydney
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February 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 06:41

some guys on celicasupra forums had some made up..they are really good guys, until u realise they wont fit with any other engine, then they started talking about cutting and bending the mandrel bend intake pipes they had etc etc [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Location:
Brisbane
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June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 09:35

So is it a good idea for me to get one when i put the 8 in? A tri-piece one connecting to the back of the firewall. Or am i wasting money? [Report message to a moderator]

ed_ma61
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 13:47

if you plan on going around convers FAST, and like responsive, tight handling, then yes - it all depends what youre bilding the car to do... plus they look schmick [Report message to a moderator]

BigWorm
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Toymods Board Member
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Turramurra, Sydney.
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 13:58

Yeah, I highly recommend one, it made a world of difference on my celica, & was even noticable at slow/normal speeds. A triangulated one would be best, but not essential, & if you're gonna put a different motor in it then it would definitely be best to wait, otherwise I'd say the sooner the better. [Report message to a moderator]

ma61_turbo
Regular

Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?

Mon, 18 August 2003 14:17

STR8 2.8 wrote on Mon, 18 August 2003 16:11

some guys on celicasupra forums had some made up..they are really good guys, until u realise they wont fit with any other engine, then they started talking about cutting and bending the mandrel bend intake pipes they had etc etc

Er, if you're talking about the ones I'm thinking of they have been fitted to mk2's with 5m, 6m and 7mgte motors...

I actually have one of these on the way to me.

[Updated on: Mon, 18 August 2003 14:18]

[Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Perth
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Mon, 18 August 2003 14:45

While not totally necessary, any bracing on a 20yo chassis design has got to be a good thing! [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

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Brisbane
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June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 00:57

yeah frank exactly what i was thinking. Whoever suggested it..yeah i am looking at putting a triangular one in! Out of stainless steel rod, ill be making it. [Report message to a moderator]

Celia-Sue
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Location:
Perth
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October 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 02:42

Another question for the suspension experts: If the choice was between upgrading the sway bar versus a strut bar on a MA-61 - which would you go for? While strut bars look pretty, I'm wondering if a stronger sway bar wouldn't give better latteral support on cornering. Australian MA-61 strut brace? I can hear a group buy coming on - Justin [Report message to a moderator]

BlackSupra
Forums Junkie

Registered:
August 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 04:02

But once again u will have to design them to go around M, JZ and even G series motors if you do a group buy! Did you want a bigger front or rear swaybar? They are pretty meaty from the factory. From all accounts change your springs shocks and bushes and there will be a remarkable difference! [Report message to a moderator]

Celia-Sue
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Perth
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October 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 04:25

I've done springs, shocks and front camber - all of which has made a big difference in relativley straight-line work. On hard corners I am still feeling some flex. US folks who have put in Adco sway bars report significant improvements. I'm just curious which would make a bigger improvement: sway or strut bar in the front? I would've thought - and may be way off base here - that a uni-fit strut bar to cover M and JZ series engines would be possible. Wrong? - Justin JZA-61 ... still on the production line [Report message to a moderator]

STR8 2.8
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Sydney
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February 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 05:03

ma61_turbo im sure i read somewhere that some guys cant fit them because of their rabid chimp intakes etc. i was simply pointing out that engines and parts may prevent a strut bar from fitting correctly but keep us posted on yours when u get it ! Cheers [Report message to a moderator]

BlackSupra
Forums Junkie

Registered:
August 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 05:29

They do tend to rave about their adco's a bit, just make sure your engine is mounted so that there is plenty of clearance to the sway bar, because it gets pretty tight. Yes a strut brace can be made to fit both combos of motors, will just require a dummy fit on 2 cars to test it out, and then assume that everyone keeps the same intakes etc [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
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June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 06:20

Celica sue i wouldnt chop and change the swaybar...if you look how stirdy it is mounted to the chassis, theres not much point stuffing around with it...IMO its a lot easier and end up being cheaper for a strut brace. Lol i was lucky enough to have no problem with the swaybar location...the v8 block sits about 6 inches behind it! With the balancer on, a little less. I had to majorly modify my crossmember though, i ended up welding 6mm plate steel right through the quite large piece i cut out. The mounts are made from 6mm plate too, so it should be pretty solid My strut triangle will not be able to be normal though because of my intake manifold being in the middle of the engine bay! I am yet to think of a way to get around this, unless i make a fancy bent one? :S [Updated on: Tue, 19 August 2003 06:20] [Report message to a moderator]

coronamark2
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 06:24

How do you get a sway bar ona a mark2 If you dont have the strut tower do you weld it to the body or what? [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
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June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 06:30

Ok well you'd need to be a confident welder, but id weld a piece of metal plate/ tag on the end of the steel rod you're going to use and weld and bolt the plate flush onto the chassis. Ill try and get some photos when mines done! Make sure its hollow rod. Tough industrial stuff too. somewhere tough on the body, like the rails on the sides of the engine bay. [Updated on: Tue, 19 August 2003 06:32] [Report message to a moderator]

ed_ma61
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Lost in the K hole
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 11:12

i think you guys all need to go hit google, and find out what a sway bar and a strut bar actually 'do'... completely different things designed for completely different characteristics. this hand waving is pretty funny... go read, then come back. and fwiw - you dont need a 'strut brace' on a car that doesnt use 'struts' - the whole point is to stabilise the front suspension geometery and sheet metal by reinforcing the strut insertion points... if you dont have struts that are flexing the body and torting the strut insertion angle, then a strut brace aint going to do much is it? perhaps another kind of brace would help a link type front end as in the crorona mk2, but not a dodgy no-strut type strut brace... [Report message to a moderator]

BlackSupra
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Registered:
August 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 11:38

Another brace that im looking into is a master cylinder brace to prevent firewall flex under heavy braking. [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

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Brisbane
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June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 11:38

Are you gonna put a triangle one on your ma61 ed? [Report message to a moderator]

ed_ma61
Forums Junkie

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Lost in the K hole
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 11:44

yep, im triangulating mine onto the firewall. best way to do it. and glen, have you thought that a triangulated brace, with a decent firewall mounting, might give you the suport you desire? also consider braided hose instead of the rubber stuff - will probably contribute more to pedal feel than a firewall brace in the first instance ed [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

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Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 11:51

Ed whats wrong with your site..says "page cannot be displayed"? [Report message to a moderator]

BlackSupra
Forums Junkie

Registered:
August 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 11:53

All the triangular braces meet in the middle of the firewall rather than the outside where the brake flex is occuring however? Here's the general idea: Team that up with a triangulated brace. [Updated on: Tue, 19 August 2003 11:55] [Report message to a moderator]

Stefan
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 11:58

I used to think 2-point braces were a wank until I bought one (thanks Shane! it's a great design). Made a huge difference. Really tightened up the front end, better turn in...even felt flatter through corners, you get the idea. Sorry bout the big pic, no image software on a uni mac, and no way to upload either BTW there are a few schools of thought regarding swaybars. Whiteline seem to say to do the front swaybar first; I have read elsewhere (a decent ae86 handling site) that uprated swaybars shouldnt be a bandaid for other things, anfd that everyhting else should be sorted first. Having said that, I have also read that some people (racers?) seem to prefer having softer springs to help keep the tyres on the ground, and then use swaybars to prevent body roll. Is your car lowered? Roll centre blocks should help keep the car flatter too, I can't say from personal expereince 'cos I havent recived mine (group buy from the same Mk2 group mentioned earlier) yet [Report message to a moderator]

ed_ma61
Forums Junkie

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Lost in the K hole
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 12:00

ok, i gotchya glen... a centre firewall support will still stiffen the master cyl mouting point though. remeber boys - stresses in materials dont disappear, they just chase each other, travel around, and pop up somewhere new. you brace something, and you end up stressing some new point, which if not designed properly, will fatigue and crack. v8 - click my sig cheers ed [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 12:03

this is the triangular part i had in mind, except made with rod/ metal shaft and 6mm steel end plates. http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl ?page_id=263806&make_type_query=make%3DFord&am p;model_brand_query=model%3DMustang&tree=Ford% 20Mustang [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
Forums Junkie

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Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 12:04

stefans got the idea for the one accross the bay! [Report message to a moderator]

BlackSupra
Forums Junkie

Registered:
August 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 12:16

I thought the reason for the strut brace was to prevent the flex associated with the geometry of the suspension when travelling around corners and the associated body flex. On the other hand the master cylinder brace is desinged to prevent the flex of the firewall when under heavy braking. To me they are two totally different matters and hopefully someone would be doing one without the other. I totally understand the stresses and how they would be transfered, but id prefer a stiffer brake feel with lesser flex and the stress being elsewhere on the firewall. Here is a pic of the triangulated MA61 strut brace avaialble in the states: [Updated on: Tue, 19 August 2003 12:17] [Report message to a moderator]

ed_ma61
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Lost in the K hole
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?	Tue, 19 August 2003 12:26

glen a triangulated strut brace will reduce the firewall flexion, as well as reduce the strut pillar flex. in essence, the stuts are supported by the firwall triangulation, and the firewall is suported by the struts triangulation...newtons law... but for absolute defnitive master cyl support, what youve posted above is the ultimate. id imagine it'd put 'some' stress on the master cyl shaft though... [Report message to a moderator]

ma61_turbo
Regular

Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?

Wed, 20 August 2003 12:27

STR8 2.8 wrote on Tue, 19 August 2003 14:33

ma61_turbo
im sure i read somewhere
that some guys cant fit them because of their rabid chimp intakes etc.
i was simply pointing out that engines and parts may prevent a strut bar from fitting correctly

but keep us posted on yours when u get it !

Cheers

Hmm, I was sure the rabid chimp intakes were ok, others weren't though. Anyway, who knows I don't pay much attention to that stuff having a 7m and all Wink

I'll post pics when I get it. Once my car is driveable again it'll be interesting to see the difference it makes...

[Report message to a moderator]

ZZT231
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I Supported Toymods

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melbourne.vic.au
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May 2002

Re: Strut tower brace on ma61?

Mon, 29 December 2003 12:13

STR8 2.8 wrote on Mon, 18 August 2003 13:03

are there any available for an ma61, or do they have to be custom built?

For people with MA61 and want a strut brace... Currently in America there is a group buy for the braces. I will not post up the link as I may get in trouble for posting the URL thinking I get any commercial gain from it (In which I don't)...

If other wise I will post it up but if you would like to have the URL, Please PM me and I'll forward the URL.

The end of duration of this group buy is January 31st 2004.

Cheers.

[Report message to a moderator]

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