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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 03 September 2003 07:38
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im want to convert my ke30 rear end to mono leaf
has anyone had any exp. with this?
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 03 September 2003 08:31
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u mean like a transverse leaf? whats good about that?
Daniel
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 03 September 2003 14:31
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also if anyone has any other ideas im all ears 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 03 September 2003 22:17
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A firend has used single leaf springs in his Escort rally car for years, they do seem to work well, but, they only last a couple of seasons before they wear out. On a road car, this probably won't be a problem though.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Thu, 04 September 2003 00:25
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G'day Josh
I am not entirely sure what you mean by Mono leaf. If it is just using a single thick leaf in lieu of the multi leaf set up, I probably wouldn't bother. The reason being that the multi leaf set up gives you a progressive spring rate which is much better for a lowered road car. A single leaf spring may be better for a rally car where suspension travel and more linear spring rates are preforable.
If you want to make a leaf sprung set up work better on a road car there is a few other things that you could be spending your time and money on.
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Thu, 04 September 2003 03:28
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what other things would u suggest?
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Thu, 04 September 2003 03:52
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I would look into putting in a watts link to take the lateral loads of the springs. For a standard road car just using leaf springs is fine but if you are expecting them to handle well, you could do with some extra stiffness back there.
If you want it to be a straight line rocket, you could look into tramp bars and things like that. The springs absorb some energy on take off which the tramp bars seem to fix.
You can also start playing with the spring hangers to change the geometry and get better traction from them.
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 00:23
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Had a look at that site. Thats a really nice looking car he has.
I am not a fan of using a pan-hard rod with leaf springs because of the lateral movement it puts on the diff. This would be twisting the leaf springs and generally fighting it's self. A watts link gives the same location rigidity without any of the lateral movement that the pan-hard rod has. I am using a fairmont watts link for my diff conversion.
A leaf sprung rear end can be made to work really well. Don't think of it as a design fault, just a different challenge.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 00:26
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Leaf springs have to work to a degree, aren't they whats on the rear of the current Corvette?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 01:47
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LOL  no-one ever accused the americans of building high tech cars  heh heh
i hope they can be made to work well, i have three leaves!!! two at the back and a damn transverse one at the front.... and the front one is already a monoleaf!!! (or is available in twin leaf form for extra gutter clearance  ) hmmmm, maybe my car is too old 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 03:14
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The problem with leaf springs has nothing to do with how well they work as a spring. For that matter, they work really well. They are durable, can be constant or rising rate and they don't break like coils do. If you really want to get finnicky about things, they carry more inertia than an equivalent coil would but compare to the unsprung mass on a road car the difference is nothing.
The problem with this type of leaf setup is that it is doing two jobs at once and consequently doing neither well. If the vett uses leaf springs, I bet it doesn't look anything like the corolla set-up.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 03:51
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Well that goes without saying, its pretty complex from what I hear. Blew me away when I first read about it though.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 08:50
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i have a mate with a hilux that has airbag suspension in it...
his car has mono leaf rear springs...
all i know is that he has been told by many people that they can be very dangerous... he might come to the next nsw meeting so if your going he might be able to tell you more about it...
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 12:59
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I can see mono leaf spring much lighter than traditional leaf spring pack -> less unspring weight. If I would get monoleaf springs. I would make sure that there is enough clearance between wheel and wheel arch in the lowest position, so that your rear wheels dont lock in case of broken leaf. I dont know how fragile mono leaf springs are but better safe than sorry, right? Nasty rally accidents have happened due to too big wheels, too soft spring and too fast/long/high jump.
Gold 28 you said what I thought.
BTW. what's the centre pivot is like? does it have roller bearings? I'm considering of making Watts link for my deutz. Dunno yet what the engineers have to say.
2nd BTW. leaf spring rear end has something good. If you examine suspension travel of leaf spring rear end. You notice that it's basically vertical line...
...less change in roll center.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Wed, 10 September 2003 22:02
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I am using one from a Fairmont, it just uses a bush in the centre. You could make one up with bearings but I can't see any benefit. An engineer shouldn't have any problems with you installing a watts link on a leaf spring rear because you are providing additional support, not reducing the strength in any way. Just make sure that you don't compromise the ground clearance requirements.
BTW 1....Note that the roll centre on a leaf spring rear end is located at the axle centre line. With a watts link it is at the centre pivot point. This means that you can build in the roll centre where ever you want.
BTW2....see BTW 1. The roll centre will move aft a small amount but will not move vertically or laterally. This is good, but I think the only reason I would use a live axle is because there is no chamber change in roll, giving better traction. You pay the penalty with higher unsprung weight though.
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Thu, 11 September 2003 17:11
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| Quote: |
I am using one from a Fairmont, it just uses a bush in the centre. You could make one up with bearings but I can't see any benefit. An engineer shouldn't have any problems with you installing a watts link on a leaf spring rear because you are providing additional support, not reducing the strength in any way. Just make sure that you don't compromise the ground clearance requirements.
BTW 1....Note that the roll centre on a leaf spring rear end is located at the axle centre line. With a watts link it is at the centre pivot point. This means that you can build in the roll centre where ever you want.
BTW2....see BTW 1. The roll centre will move aft a small amount but will not move vertically or laterally. This is good, but I think the only reason I would use a live axle is because there is no chamber change in roll, giving better traction. You pay the penalty with higher unsprung weight though.
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I was only thinking roller bearing because the center swing has to turn several degrees compared to panhard rod or shock eye. Bush felt dodgy but now that I think it works on upper and lower links so it has to work on center swing.
In Finland about every chassis mod is illegal unless you have special permit. My Corona has no leaf spring end. I hate my stock "kids to soccer chassis" in my corona. I allready have chassis mods but I really like to get rid of panhard rod it feels like bump steering in up and downs. Another great things would be true four link and De Dion axle. It would have best sides (no camber changes and it would still have camber you wish) of rigid rear axle and tolerable unspring weight.
BTW 1 clear as it can be.
BTW 2 what I ment was that in theory there is no lateral movement and diff angle changes, no back and forward in up and down movements but we know the practice.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Thu, 11 September 2003 22:11
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If your going to go to the trouble of mounting the centre section of a De Dion, you may as well go one step further and go fully independant. The unsprung weight difference is not that much less on a De Dion axle than a live axle and it is a whole lot more complicated. Additionally you will need to find somewhere for that cross tube to swing.
We need Engineering approval for chassis mods too.
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Sat, 13 September 2003 14:23
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I have added a extra leaf for stiffness, and used wagon leaves also, slightly stiffer again. And I have added a panhard rod. I am quite happy with a panhard rod, no need to go watts link. If the panhard rod is mounted sort of horizontal, and the leafs are stiff, there is not that much movement sideways and using a panhard rod is not a problem. I have seen race Escorts with leafs and panhard rod.
I would also like to go to a mono leaf, for the sake of weight. Only if the mono leaf was as stiff as what I have now. Do we use a thicker leaf? I think a mono leaf giving a single rate spring rather than progressive would be a great thing on a light race car. As long as you don't have fat people in the rear.
I will be using rod ends and a adjuster on my new panhard rod when I get time to make it.
More of an issue at the moment is tramp. (Only aplicable to burnouts realy). I may make a tramp rod as with Toms TE27 in the USA, not sure what to do about that yet.
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Sat, 13 September 2003 15:41
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long time no see mate
ive got an extra leaf ontop on the standard springs in mine and im thinking of going bigger still
i might take out the shortest leaf as well
i might have to look into a panhard rod i can see how they r a good thing
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Sun, 14 September 2003 13:35
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I am searching this topic a bit more. Why do you put a extra leaf on top? I have my extra leaf as a medium length in the pack. I hear putting it on top can stop tramp. Mostly I want to stop axle tramp, but also want lighter weight.
I find if you use a single leaf it has to be wider. Ther is a place in Australia makeing this for cars, with stiffer joins so you don't have to use a panhard rod if you don't want. Se here:
http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/performancefac tors.html
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Mono Leaf Springs
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Sun, 14 September 2003 23:44
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I still think that if you are going to the trouble of making brackets for a pan hard rod, why not go for a watts link. Grab one from an XE/XD/XF fairmont. Mine cost me $20.
With a watts link you get the added benefit of physically locating the roll centre. With a pan hard rod, it will move up in a right hand corner and down in a left hand corner.
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