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Location:
Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered:
September 2003
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Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Tue, 09 September 2003 22:26
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Im looking for anyone who has experience swapping a 3RZFE engine in place of a 22R/22RE.. does anyone have any info at all about this swap? .. I have a hard time believing Im the first one to give it a try..
Ive tried the 4x4's, the mini-truckers, and now Toymods.. dont fail me crazy aussie engine swappers..
even better would be someone who has done the swap into a RA2x celica.. but Im not going to be picky..
thanks,
Brett
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Tue, 09 September 2003 23:24
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whats a 3rzfe? never seen or heard of one in australia before. and also none of our first and second gen of celicas ever came out with 22r's but 2t and 18r series engines.
so i don t know how much help the people of oz will be.
have a pic of the engine?
Daniel
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Tue, 09 September 2003 23:34
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The 3RZ-FE is the 2.7 litre 4 cylinder found in various commercial vehicles over here including the Hilux. I've heard speculation that RZ engines are a modernised version or the old R engines, but I have no idea how true that is. I've never played with one or heard of anyone else playing with one so I'm not much help at all. About all I can suggest is you spend a few hours at the wreckers with a measuring tape; it's amazing what you can learn! 
Oh yeah, the first and second generation Celicas in the US didn't have 22R's either, but it's a fairly common swap over there. A 22R will replace an 18R/21R fairly easily.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Wed, 10 September 2003 00:49
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Pretty much what Norbie said. On face value, it seems like a pretty reasonable swap. I have no experience with the 3RZ at all, so check around first....it might be real dud and not worth going to all the trouble to fit.
The things to check are going to be sump position (are they different between Hiace and Hilux?) and the engine mounting points (compared to your R series ones). You should also check for other things like intake and exhaust manifolds fouling with steering/brake/clutch components. Although these can be modifed to be made to fit, doing so adds expense to the conversion. Wander down to some wrecking yards, go nuts with a tape measure and take plenty of photos with a digicam.
Here in Oz, the 2WD Hiluxes run a W56 gearbox behind them. If you are running a W5x (Supra style) box, you should be able to run your current box provided you get the correct bellhousing/flywheel.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Wed, 10 September 2003 01:17
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i have some info on the electrics on them
they came out in a prado
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Wed, 10 September 2003 11:36
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The mount on the 2wd + gearbox are the same and in the exact location as the ones in your Celica. You'll need to run your W5# box as the gearing of the 'lux box would be woeful for any kind of work apart from pulling stuff around... and the Price, You'd be better off with a 1JZ, as they're dame expensive (same $$ as the 1JZ if not more!!)
Norbie, they are, but they aren't... ie same applications, but are a completely new designed engine.
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Location:
Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 04:15
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Thanks for the replies all.. specially the last bit there Johnny.. I was wondering if my W5x would bolt to the RZ block..
I dont mind having to do fab work to get this in .. Im not looking for a hi-rev screamer, just a modifiable (and LC Engineering seems to be mod'ing them with success) modern smooth motor with some fun stoplight to stoplight torque goin for it..
I dont consider the 1JZ much of an option .. only because the 3RZ's arent that pricey around here (bout 1500-2k CDN with loom, computer etc) and i expect the 3RZ is a smaller motor?
I dont even know (not a supra guy) if the 1JZ's were in North America at all?
Btw Norbie while first gen celicas didnt the 22R from 75-79 we did run the 20R (direct bolt-in swap) and 80+ (still considered 2nd gen) got the 22R .. 22RE late 82 and on.
thanks for the info folks..
Brett
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 04:49
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they're only expensive because they aren't pushing 10yo.
i got quoted 3500 for engine and gearbox from a commercial wrecker, it's a lot but it is a very new engine (same vintage as the god almighty 2UZFE  ). you'll mince the std gearbox, so swap it for a supra item.
they make 110kW in std trim, but they take VERY kindly to boost upgrades (like the 1UZFE does, and they both have 10:1 CR). you can put 20psi thru it for about 350 - 400odd kW out of an unopened 2.7L..... bullet proof.
bear in mind the std plenum aint that great, so a custom one with 8x 13B turbo injectors (550cc) run my a microtech LTX12 or the like will see it hold off detonation.
and yeah put a supra turbo box behind it, a 9lb flywheel and a centreforce single plate clutch (or an OS Giken twin plate) and awayee weeee goooooooo!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 05:16
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| onejayzed wrote on Thu, 11 September 2003 14:49 |
....and they both have 10:1 CR.... you can put 20psi thru it
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Errrr.....riiiight. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 05:27
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So who exactly is making 400kW out of an unopened 3RZ? Or did you just pull that figure out of your arse?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 05:27
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i take it from that comment that you don't believe me...?
guru racing in conjunction with per4manz turbochargers here in perth have a 1UZFE in the RA23 mustang celica with 2x GT3040 turbos pushing 20psi in an unopened engine. it ran a string of mid 9sec passes until he tried for 22psi and then it broke all ring landings. it is now being rebuilt with 8:5ish CR and almost double the boost (!).
you can call grant bosnjak at per4manz turbochargers in radium st, welshpool if you'd like to confirm that....?
there is also a black toyota hilux traytop with a 3RZFE running over east with convo pro rims running 20psi in an unopened engine and a TO4B hybrid that runs 11s all day long (and would run tens if it weren't for no weight over the back wheels.)
the puerto rican boys apparently run 2UZFEs in their hilux drag utes with 1UZFE rods for 9:1 CR ish (i haven't confirmed this though, so don't take it as gospel) running 37psi (2.5bar).
is that enuf proof or do you need more?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 05:30
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please don't accuse me of pulling shit out of my arse.
i wouldn't post unless i had seen it with my own eyes (not read it in some poxy mag or anything.).
and i said 350-400kW. i thinki t was closer to 350 so don't go taking the top figure, 50kw is alot of power at those extremities of engine operation.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 05:32
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| onejayzed wrote on Thu, 11 September 2003 14:49 |
they're only expensive because they aren't pushing 10yo.
i got quoted 3500 for engine and gearbox from a commercial wrecker, it's a lot but it is a very new engine (same vintage as the god almighty 2UZFE ). you'll mince the std gearbox, so swap it for a supra item.
they make 110kW in std trim, but they take VERY kindly to boost upgrades (like the 1UZFE does, and they both have 10:1 CR). you can put 20psi thru it for about 350 - 400odd kW out of an unopened 2.7L..... bullet proof.
bear in mind the std plenum aint that great, so a custom one with 8x 13B turbo injectors (550cc) run my a microtech LTX12 or the like will see it hold off detonation.
and yeah put a supra turbo box behind it, a 9lb flywheel and a centreforce single plate clutch (or an OS Giken twin plate) and awayee weeee goooooooo!
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no offence dude, but it sounds like everything u just said right here has come straight from a magazine.
and i believe the 9 second celica is a RA28...
[Updated on: Thu, 11 September 2003 05:33]
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 05:37
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i'm not well up on model codes so sorry about that one. i know it's an RA...that's about it. 
and wtf is "sounds like that came straight fom a magazine" meant to mean? i'm no motoring journo but i do like to put things in laymans terms if that's what you mean....?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 11:29
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| onejayzed wrote on Thu, 11 September 2003 15:27 |
is that enuf proof or do you need more?
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Sorry, where is this "proof" you speak of?
Everyone knows you can get insane power out of the UZ series engines, but 350-400kW out of an internally stock Hilux engine?
"I like stories!"
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 11:46
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| gianttomato wrote on Thu, 11 September 2003 15:16 |
| onejayzed wrote on Thu, 11 September 2003 14:49 |
....and they both have 10:1 CR.... you can put 20psi thru it
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Errrr.....riiiight.
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Maybe he thinks the 3RZ is a diesel?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 11:56
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And then he could run twin stage turbo setup on the thing.
He could run 80 psi boost and make 700-800 rwkW and run 6-7's.
All on an unopened motor of course!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Thu, 11 September 2003 11:57
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Basicly your full of shit if you expect the engine to last with those rwkw numbers, cut the bullshit and be reasonable!
AS FOR THE TOPIC!
I have had plenty of time to look at 2rz's at work in Hi-Aces and the engine mounts look very similer
Regards
Allan
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Fri, 12 September 2003 00:23
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the 3RZ is a petrol engine.
i confirmed with rob, one of the painters who helped build the thing and he says that the engine WAS opened...for a 1.0mm copper head gasket to bring the CR down to 8.3ish - and that is all that was done to the engine you smart-arses.
my apologies on the unopened bit, however it did make 360kW AT THE REAR WHEELS (of which i didn't mention before *gianttomato* - thanks for the mis-quote)
and who said anything about it lasting at those power levels? did i mention he had done this on a 400thou engine or something? did i? because i sure as hell don't remember it.
charming lot aren't you...? more hooked up on quoting model numbers. 3 years ago if someone said 'i know of a quad cam V8 that can take 20psi boost with a 10:1 CR' you would have laughed.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Fri, 12 September 2003 01:43
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| Norbie wrote on Fri, 12 September 2003 09:31 |
| onejayzed wrote on Fri, 12 September 2003 10:23 |
and who said anything about it lasting at those power levels? did i mention he had done this on a 400thou engine or something? did i? because i sure as hell don't remember it.
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Allow me to job your memory:
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you can put 20psi thru it for about 350 - 400odd kW out of an unopened 2.7L..... bullet proof
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You wouldn't have happened to mean "jog" your memory did you Norbie?? 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Fri, 12 September 2003 04:28
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Curses! A pox on you and your spellchecker.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Fri, 12 September 2003 04:29
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If you have a look around I'm in English nazi mode atm Stupid uni stuff! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Sat, 13 September 2003 23:51
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Keep reading FF&Rotaries dude. You rock.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Seattle area, USA
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Fri, 05 March 2004 12:53
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in stock trim they are 150hp, 177 ft lbs. 16 valve 2.7litre
well not sure on your side of the big pond but guys are running the 3RZ over here and making 900+hp at the wheels on built engines. drag only of course. also know a guy in cali running a 200 n2o shot on a stock unopened, but did install arp head studs 2RZ in a 2wd hilux. claims to run 12 flat with street tires and an lsd.
found this qoute on a racing ..webpage
The NORAD Celica will use the same Toyota 3RZ 2.7-liter engine used in Rado's current race car but Norwood is making several changes to squeeze more useable power out of the unit.
"I have re-worked the cylinder heads to optimize the flow capabilities," explained Norwood. "The intake and exhaust ports have been raised and we have spent a lot of time on the flow bench getting the heads where we want them. We are currently working on cam profiles and so far we have managed to make improvements that should yield a lot of useable power.
"We have also re-worked the crankshaft and block to take us as close to the three-liter limit as we can go, I'm an old timer and a believer in the old saying "There ain't no substitute for cubic inches".
"Christian's current engine combination makes well over 900 horsepower to the wheels. I am on target to make at least 250 more with a much wider power-band."
Much R&D time has also been dedicated to the chassis design of the new Celica. The design features the same 'Four-link' style front suspension as the current car but a completely different approach has been pioneered by Norwood's team. The front of the chassis is much narrower and the steering centers are placed on the centerline of the tires.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Fri, 21 October 2005 04:06
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seems i WASN'T bullshitting about the 3RZ huh?
anyone seen the new ZOOM? with the turbo 3RZFE in a 180SX?
blow THAT out your ar5e...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Fri, 21 October 2005 06:23
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You opened a thread that has been dead for over a year to deliver vengeful comments of exactly zero productivity? Nice one . Nobody was denying that the 3RZ could make power. However, you said it was in standard trim, which as you stated yourself, was crap. There is a huge difference between 10:1 CR and 8.33:1 CR.
And do you have ANY idea of how beyond standard that 3RZ in the 180SX is? For a start, it is the advertising material of a company so it has had limitless funds thrown at it, it started with a long motor imported from the US already built, and the head is about as stock as Pamela Anderson's tits. I guess 30PSI had something to do with it too.
So turns out that unless you refute your initial statements, you weren't right about the tremendous potential of a stock 3RZ. 
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Swap a 3RZFE in place of a 22R..
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Sat, 22 October 2005 10:58
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Seeing as only pointless replies are being posted on this thread, its now being locked.
onejayzed, keep your comments constructive, there was no need for your last reply.
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