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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Mon, 15 September 2003 13:06
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who's used this? ill be doing the extractors on my 4k shortly and i just want to know how much i will need!
any ideas?
ab
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 05:08
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50 dollars per roll, from autobarn...
1 roll per exhaust pipe...
long term bad idea, moisture can get under lose / dodgy wrapping and cause rust... long term it'll eat through ur extractors...
i would prefer to use heat sheilds, socks, instead.. if heat dissapation is critical look for methods of creating greater airflow through your engine bay.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 05:23
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heya Alex,
easy to work out. measure diameter and length of pipe, then calculate the surface area, then add maybe 25% for tape overlap.
i think i worked out that for mine, i will be needing about 8m of 50mm tape (i got it from Autospeed, is "high energy" brand)
yup, long term is not great, but will work for short term.
a much better idea is to get them HPC coated. costs a bit, but works really well...
actually, the first thing i'll be wrapping is my starter motor  , the extractors circle all the way round it, and that can't be good.
hmm, i reckon you can get someone to go halves with ya on that 30m roll  price is good.
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 05:28
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How does moisture get in them? They'd be bloody hot and would surely turn any moisture to gas?
Maybe if the car is left undriven for a while, but the extractors won't be the only thing rusting then.
I got given a large strip of it from Liverpool exhausts, but gave it to someone else on the forum, only wrapped one of his two dump pipes though, so did the most critical one (went close to brake master cyl).
Once wrapped around, can you hold them on with something (clamps) or do they go hard?
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 05:34
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I have heard that it can cause the extractors to crystalise depending on what sort of quality they are because of the extra heat that is kept.. 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 05:40
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re-crystallise, as in annealing them? could be an issue with turbo manifolds, but iron recrystallisation temp is between 700 and 800 deg, so it'd have to be damn hot...
yeah, i've heard many ppl say that they cause rust from moisture, but i don't really understand. the higher temp may cause more of the aluminium to oxidise sooner, leaving depleted steel to rust, but the actual moisture thing is a little iffy.
usually held on by hose clamps (or stainless 'header wrap clamps' if you go to a shiny store). you could use alumina paste to sort of stick them on, but resonance would probably make them fall off.
i was just going to use Kanthal tie wire to hold them on.. can't be bothered buying hose claps in weird sizes
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 09:01
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If you actualy READ THE INSTRUCTIONS your ment to paint the pipes before you wrap and then seal the wrap to the pipe after you wrap them with more heat proof paint
Allan
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 10:14
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could maybe get hot enough to do that, but we are talking about around 5-600 deg C minimum for this stuff to happen in reasonable times..
RTFM
any chance you could scan the instructions for me?? my "high energy thermal wrap" certainly didn't come with any
still, first preference will always to be HPC, otherwise it's just temporary...
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 10:26
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Theres normaly a folded up bit of paper between the cardboard and the wrap when you open up the packet, i would gladly scan it for you if i had them still or you buy me another packet! 
Allan
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 11:04
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oh, well i haven't unwrapped the first lot i got, as it's being used at uni for furnaces, heating tapes and other crap.... so the plastic is only slightly opened, and is being spooled out....
i'll check tomorrow
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 11:25
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well, dont i feel like a fool... sorry...
same affect, different cause...
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 11:26
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i was thinking of using this on the pipe from the intercooler to the inlet to keep temps down after it was cooled by the core... if the car sits idle for even a while (ie no airflow) the pipe heats up quite a bit.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 12:03
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| boudan wrote on Tue, 16 September 2003 21:25 |
well, dont i feel like a fool... sorry...
same affect, different cause...
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chill dude , i'm just thinking of it relating to metallurgy. what you said is true, and that's what everyone says (even the makers of the stuff). and you are spot on as far as using sheilds and getting greater airflow , unless you want to keep heat in the pipe to begin with (as opposed to keeping heat away from everything else)
for me it's more interesting to work out the cause of the problem, so then we can work out how to make it not happen.
another reason that has been suggested to me today is that the fibres (particularly for carbon fibres) abrade the surface of the metal and cause tiny peaks and valleys, which accelerate corrosion due to the change in surface energy (from the sharp scratches)
maybe that's why they recommend to paint first??
what i'm more worried about is the wrap disentegrating from the pipe resonance.... all the paint resonated off (not burnt), so it could happen to the wrap as well! yikes!
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Tue, 16 September 2003 12:28
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i put some wrap on my dump pipe (is only 30-40mm from firewall) and on exh manifold to protect alternator. you're supposed to put it on damp so it tightens up upon drying/heating. i used s/s hose clamps to stop it all unravelling but also used light tie-wire further away from the turbo housing.
seem to keep some of the heat in the pipe, but is very fragile and prone flaking when knocked or hit during repairs/maintenance/mods - i assume that mine is mostly fibreglass with some alumina and resins that baked off after the first hot run. i may have left it oo long before 'curing it'?
I think it could promote exterior surface rusting if car is left unused for long period of time as all those fibres would soak up moisture quickly, then allow it to evaporate quickly - perfect for encouraging surface rust?
i did notice that the when i removed the wrap to do repairs on the waste-gate, it took most of the high-temp (silver stuff) exhaust paint with it. And any wrap near any flange bolts has been mashed up by clumsy mechanics (like me).
i think the abrasive nature of the turbine exhaust would damage the dump pipe before the surface rust does- and that would takes years of hard work... by which time the car's been crushed or sold.
irwige: you're better off using a stick-on reflective insulator to prevent the piping getting warm. Either the expensive stuff with a foil covering fibre matt or cheaper lower-temp stuff from Clark Rubber.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Wed, 17 September 2003 01:50
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Personally I find it's worth it to just get the manifold ceramic coated. It costs somewhere just shy of $200 or $300 (can't remember), but it works incredibly well in regards to reducing under-bonnet temperatures, and manifold longevity.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Wed, 17 September 2003 06:02
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| Allan wrote on Tue, 16 September 2003 19:01 |
If you actualy READ THE INSTRUCTIONS your ment to paint the pipes before you wrap and then seal the wrap to the pipe after you wrap them with more heat proof paint
Allan
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wow, there was a bit of paper after all
hmm they keep going on about having a cooler driver!
hmm, dampen and pull tight, overlapping 1/4". let tape dry naturally. some smoke may be emitted on first startup.
| Quote: |
It is recommended that the wrap is sealed to the pipes with a good quality heat proof paint such as VHT Heat Proof Arosol Paint
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i found this last bit a bit vague.... are you mean to paint it so it's a solid mass of paint?? paint first?? (actually when i emailed them they said not to paint first...) how much paint will 'seal' the tape to the pipes..
maybe it's just meant to be ultravague.....
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Wed, 17 September 2003 07:19
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Yes its not ideal if your pulling your dump pipe on and off but its cheaper and quicker then ceramic coating
as for the ammount of paint i used 2 spray packs for my dump pipe
Allan
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Thu, 18 September 2003 02:19
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thanks for the info everyone
as this exhaust is only a temporary measure i am not really too concerned about the longevity of the manifold... i do however find it quite strange that you are supposed to glue it on with high temp paint 
ill give it a go shortly
ab
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Thu, 18 September 2003 07:37
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hmmm, i'm wondering if the recommendation to moisten the tape while wrapping is simply to reduce the amount of fibres that get into the air while you are first wrapping it... there doesn't seem to be anything impregnated into the wrap, that i can discern. still a good idea to use a mask tho... silicosis aint fun.
just a thought..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: exhaust header wrap tape stuff
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Thu, 18 September 2003 13:00
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the safety note that came with my exhaust wrap said to use:
gloves, mask and long sleeved shirt...
cause if you get the fibres in your skin they itch for bloody weeks.
Charles.
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