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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 13:48
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ok, I'm considering a respray on my new baby - as I'll have the engine out and everything, and it will need a panel or 2 resprayed regardless (salvage from my wreck)
my question is this - which do you guys think is the better option?
I know 2-pac provides a better gloss finish that is easier to keep clean, but it's also a lot harder to do properly, as it tends to get slight waves and ripples in it.
the acrylic (like the standard ma61 paint) is much easier to do, but is also a bit of a bitch to keep clean, and would need good quality waxing regularly.
my current thought is to get it done acrylic, give it a good wash and a nice hard wax coat, then every time I wash it use a much softer wax, and occasionally use a harder one
bear in mind I know very little about car paints, so anything would be helpful
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 13:51
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Mine is going to be sprayed in acrylic, basically because the guy doing my car refuses to spray two-pac because its really bad for you, and we don't have the best location to spray it.
Mine is going to be overcoated in POR15 Glisten PC, so hopefully it'll be nice and shiny with a tough exterior coat.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 14:09
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yeah, 2-pack is nasty gear, you will need full respirator and proper exhausted painting bay. if the EPA catch you sprayin it in your backyard.. not good.
generally need to heat cure it, so a few banks of heat lights etc are also needed...
basically it is not really a backyard job, although it has been done before.
acrylic is easier to work with, easier to apply, easier to touch up, and is not quite as bad for your health 
what's the deal with this POR15, their site looks good, but doesn't really have much tech info there....
is it available locally? cost???
 i like that it likes to be put on rusted metal best!! less prep for me 
Cya, Stewart
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 14:15
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POR15 cures by absorbing moisture, not by solvents, so its totally non-porous. It doesn't react with any solvents, although paint stripper will remove it (as I found out yesterday ).
It is roughly $66 when bought by the litre. I've used quite a few of their other products, and I've found it really good. Their Marine Clean is awesome at removing grease etc.
The Australian supplier is PPC (Permanent Painted Coatings), they are really helpful, answered a few of my tech questions etc. Their site is: http://www.ppc.au.com/
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 14:18
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Oh, and follow the instructions on the label, if you get it on your hands, it doesn't come off. Not all bog works with it as I've found, their stuff is a bit sticky, and when applied by brush POR15 settles REALLY well, and goes really shiny. Nothing bar their Tie-Coat will adhere to it without keying it all (slut of a job).
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 14:49
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so what's the opinion on adding a clear coat over the top? yes or no?
clear coat is all well and good, but when it starts to flake it looks fugly - I figure just taking good care of it in terms of washing/waxing would be a suitable alternative
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 14:51
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As far as I've gathered acrylic NEEDS the clear coat over the top as its not glossy off the gun in the same way that 2-pac is.
The Glisten PC clear coat is f'ing tough like the POR15 paint itself, so fingers crossed I won't have that issue.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Wed, 17 September 2003 16:25
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GO BAKED!!!
some silly lady pulled out into my RA23 years ago and insurance fit the bill for a baked enamel *spelling* paint job. it looks great and feels so silky smooth after a bath and pollish!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 03:52
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baked enamel not really an option 
looks like it will be acrylic - undecided on a clear coat as of yet
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 03:56
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a possible solution is, after the colour goes on, mix some clear and colour together and spray on, then clear on its own as finale
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 03:58
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what's the advantage of that over just a clear coat?
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 03:59
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Im spraying one of my cars in the next few weeks. WHo can recomend and a brand of acrilic paint.
Por15 rocks.
Brad
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 04:00
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Id enamel(two pack or straight enamel) the engine bay because to get a shine out of acrylic you need to cut with sand paper then cut and polish. It can be a bitch to do this in an engine bay because panels aren't the strictest. Then acrylic on the body.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 04:00
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no idea  i cant remember the reasons but when i did my car it was the advice my panel beater friend gave me. im sure someone else can chime in and explain. 
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Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 08:43
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Car paint shops here doesnt even sell acrylic(exept in spray cans). Every car is sprayed with 2pac. 2pac is todays paint. Why bother with acrylic?
Mines done with 2pac. Notice that it only has one layer of paint and no clear coat.
http://toyotacover.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/images/hyv laatu.jpg
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 08:45
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i agree, 2 pac is the way to go.
i wudnt use acrylic without a clear coat tho.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 08:46
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Well from what I gathered a little while ago when I was looking around, acrylic is pretty much what every new car is sprayed in nowadays as its easy to spray and easy to repair.
Many panel-beaters use 2-pac but a big reason for that (I'm not saying the only reason) is because it comes shiny off the gun...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 09:08
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reason?
acrylic is cheaper, MUCH easier to work with, easier to touch up, safer for the sprayer.... etc etc etc.
I dont mind the extra effort giving it a good wax job to make it look super-shiny
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 10:46
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Just be careful with the clear coat if u finish with it.
Make sure that the clear coat is uv resistant else it will turn funny with age.
If u want a really good 2pac that is almost chip resistant then try Jotan imperite 300.
Tho if u use it u have to buff and polish it before it has fully cured.
Brett.
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 11:47
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You'll find most cars are done with enamel or 2-pac factory but prestige cars get done with acrylic. Acrylic gives you a much much nicer finish if done right.
Enamel and 2-pack come shiny off the gun hence panel shops use it as people have said before.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 12:41
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I'm gonna go acrylic - mainly for ease of use, and cheapness.
if I can get a car that looks even close to the malloy supra, I'll be a very happy chappy
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Registered:
July 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 13:21
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that'd be really, really good
if I finish the last coat of black, can I leave it a few days, see waht the finish is like, then decide on a clear coat?
I realise it may need a very fine sand (1200 wet&dry) - but is it possible?
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Registered:
July 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 13:33
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planning on around 8 coats - but it's all in the pipeline at the moment. hell, the car isn't even at my house yet
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 15:58
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for those who think you cant get a good shine out of acrylic without a clear coat ... the malloy supra has no clear coat on it!!!
I dont think I'm going to worry about a clear coat
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 19:41
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reason?
acrylic is cheaper, MUCH easier to work with, easier to touch up, safer for the sprayer.... etc etc etc.
I dont mind the extra effort giving it a good wax job to make it look super-shiny
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My whole painting cost less than 300¤ (500AUD). Paint and fillers etc. was about 200¤, painter took 100¤. I did preparations myself. I dont see this very expensive.
Dunno about MUCH easier IF you have to spray several layers.
Safer for sure, agree. If you looked my car pic. That paint has been there over year (big deal  ), but I haven't waxed it once.
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generally need to heat cure it, so a few banks of heat lights etc are also needed...
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Yeah general! but about 25 celsius is enough. So warm day and you can spray it outside in the shadow. Prepare 20 spay cans of Raid tho . My car went into oven cause it was cold day(oven treatment included into 100¤ )
BTW. use quality brand paints fillers etc. Buy paint, fillers clear coats, primer etc. from same shop to get same brand (less mixing problems). Also get quality sanding paper (3M or similar).
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Location:
Helensvale, Queensland
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 21:51
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What is the malloy supra? Is there a site with pics of it?
Thanks
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Thu, 18 September 2003 22:30
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I'm hoping to get the car painted in acrylic too. Question - how do you prepare the surface of the old paint for primer? I've heard there's some sort of scouring pad that you can use to break the shine, and then put primer on?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 03:36
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Does that site have any info with the respray?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 04:22
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nope
just mentions is an acrylic, non-clear coated job
pity
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 04:58
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Clear coat is not really necessary with flat colors ie non pearls or metallic. You must clear metallic if you want a good shine. Just put lots of paint on there and cut it back it will shine.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 06:13
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yep
plan at the moment is somewhere in the range of 6-10 coats, with a sand back or 2 in there - so should be plenty of paint
but "cut back" - you mean with a cutting compound, or a gentle 1200 sand + buff?
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 06:29
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When you first cut it you want to use 1200 grade paper and take all of the orange peel out of the surface. When you can see it is flat with no orange peel (quite easy to see) then you through some cutting compound on and buff (angle grinder or drill with lambs wool atachment). Just don't hit the corners hard, it is easy to burn through the paint on corners and wreck the whole job.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 07:06
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yep, that was the plan .... but it's nice to have some re-enforcement
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 08:01
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Sorry to hijack the thread but whats an estimate that I would be looking at for a complete 2-pac repsray on a bare AE82 ? (Bare meaning I will take most parts off myself bar the doors).
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 09:37
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If you're looking for a finish like his you're gonna want to spend about 2 months making sure you don't have the slighterst little dimple or curve in that body of yours. That supra is absolutely immaculate in it's paintwork. Black is the most evil of all colours for showing body imperfections. Good luck to you my friend, let us know how you went.
also why wouldn't you put a clear coat on? at least 1 coat... It will help protect your paint remember every time you use a cutting compound and even a polish you're taking some paint off. Wouldn't you rather take clear coat off?
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Fri, 19 September 2003 12:00
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I've sprayed a few cars now, always using acrylic. 2 Pak is very nasty stuff and not something you should consider doing in your backyard liek others have said.
Check out my site, I have some detail about painting, prep work etc from when I did my Celica's. Its under "technical info".
I painted both Traceys and my TA22 Celica in my backyard using acrylic. See for yourself on my site, I am very happy with the way both cars turned out.
BTW, if you're using a flat colour and you know what your doing then you don't need a clear coat.
Pearl or metallic's definately need to have a clear coat.
Clear can be used on flat colours to give a bit deeper colour and slightly more gloss, but liek I say, a good painter won't always use it.
Good luck,
Simon
http://users.chariot.net.au/~stmezz/celica.htm
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sat, 20 September 2003 01:13
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If you do pick a flat common colour like white, find one off a standard release toyota, holden, ford. ie camry, commodore, corrola, falcon etc. that way in 5 years time you won't have to spend 3 weeks looking for a match to your "saab 1983 special rally series white"
Colour matching is a bitch.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sat, 20 September 2003 04:46
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I was thinking of the white that comes on the new Kia Rio
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sat, 20 September 2003 05:01
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if you're going to take your car out west or on country roads (e.g. high temps, lost of dust, kicked-up dirt from trucks, poor roads) then you might want to weigh up the longevity/durability of acrylic v/s 2pac.
i went with the 2pac as i wanted the colour to stay, even if the car was used like a B/S ute for a few months every year.
also, if it's a daily driver, then parking in the sun - with lots of polution precipitate - is going to discolour/age the acrylic first? (open to advice here?)
fwiw: my g/f's sister car (Cordia) was 2pac'd then moved in Mt Isa for 2 years (long story). Car was repaired after kangaroo v/s car incident in first 6 months of stay - the repair work was not 2pac so has faded, 2pac is as-sprayed. The Mt Isa pollution accelarated the ageing of paint, so a few years on, the differences in the durability of the paints is obvious.
Also, mate who drives Landrover 4WD used marine 2-pac on steel rims and bullbars - is very hard to chip/scratch.
Charles.
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sat, 20 September 2003 06:01
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Acrylic is good if you're willing to put in the time to wax the thing once a week and garage your car agreed. It's actualy the nicest finish of the 3 kinds of paint but you're right, it dies in the sun/polution.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sun, 21 September 2003 13:45
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I'm planning on using POR15's Glisten PC clear coat over the top of my acrylic paint. This acts a lot like the POR15 rust paint itself, is very durable and totally seals off the surface.
Does acrylic really react that badly to UV and will having a couple of good clear coats going to protect it?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sun, 21 September 2003 13:58
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I dont know about that... my supra (rip) was acrylic, and 20 years later the paint is still immaculate
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sun, 21 September 2003 14:50
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If you're going to use POR15 clear let your paint cure for at least 2 weeks beforehand. Normal paints cure by getting rid of the thinners in them so if you seal it with POR15 it won't cure properly. Just leave it after you spray your top coat don't polish/wax it or anything(maybe a 1500/2000 sand) then leave it for 2 weeks. Give it a good wash and make sure you get any oils/waxes off it before you spray clear on too. Main thing is let it cure before spraying the clear. And unless it sits in harsh sunlight it should be fine for a fair few years. Obviously shade/garage/carport is better than full sunlight.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Sun, 21 September 2003 15:06
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Well whenever possible I park in shade, and it stays at work on weekends and when I'm at home under cover.
Thanks for reminding me about the clear coat, I forgot about that I'm firing off an e-mail to the PPC guys now to check what they recommend.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Mon, 22 September 2003 09:42
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One paint to consider, if you are after a standard colour, not metalic, and not pearl, is Polyurethane! That's what the the Big Rigs cruising our highways are painted with.(aircraft are also painted with this stuff,doesn't fall off even at MACH 2)
High Gloss, High Durability, Non Porous, and Acid Rain Resistant. Half the price of 2 Pack, and 5 times as durable as acrylic.
regards Chuck.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Mon, 22 September 2003 10:27
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how does one acquire polyurethane paint, and how is it applied? I would assume you don't spray it on like normal paint...?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: acrylic vs 2-pac
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Mon, 22 September 2003 11:11
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Polyurethane paint should be available from from some auto paint suppliers, but definately available at industrial paint suppliers. Polyurethane utilizes a catalyst, the same way as 2 pack. Sprayed on just like the others. Toxicity should not be a problem, as the RAAF Surface Finishers, touched up aircraft, while other trades were still working.
regards Chuck.
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