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TurboRA28
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Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sat, 27 September 2003 23:13 Go to next message
I've just started the next RA28 brake upgrade...

R32/300 TT. Alloy 4 spot calipers. These take a 280mm x 30mm disc.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/helenfitz/nissan_calliper1.jpg

Corona ST141 struts. Which have the same 100mm bolt spacing as the calipers.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/helenfitz/st141strut.jpg

From my rough measurements I think it will actually take the original DBA909 disc from the 300ZX. The height seems to be correct and the disc should run true through the center of the caliper. But need to take some more measurements to confirm this.

Cheers
Joel

[Updated on: Sat, 27 September 2003 23:14]

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SPEEDCORE
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icon14.gif  Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 05:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shocked Very nice man!!

Just out of curiosity... is the 4 potter significantly heavier or lighter than the standard caliper on the 28?
Got actual weights?
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DJ345
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sounds good, keep us posted.
P.S do you know what min. size wheels will they fit under.
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've tried taking some weights.

Nissan caliper alloy 4 spots = 2.7

RA28 caliper single spots = 3.5

The Hilux caliper that currently is on the car is well over 6 from memory.

I'm pleased with the weight of the Nissan caliper, lighter than the stock item but 4 spot!
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Cool1
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Can i ask how much you got the calipers for?
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Calipers were $260, which came with discs.

Struts were $50 for the pair.

Going to make for a very cheap upgrade.
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wilbo666
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Whoa nice weight improvement!
Didn't realise that the hilux ones were that heavy Shocked

Cheers
Wilbo
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Cool1
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I might be able to get some calipers for some good prices if anyone is interested!
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TE72_Turbo
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
let me know when you take the hilux calipers off your car... I'd like to purchase them off you if you dont have a need for them Smile

cheers
Phil
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chrisss
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if this works its going to cause a revolution.

good work hope it goes well.
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Jayem
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
My EPC doesnt know struts like that. Are those some Jap import? Does anyone know if Cressidas have same 100mm bolt spacing. Cressida seems to have same kinda attachment.
*X-8* Cressidas have 5 bolt hubs, has anyone fitted these in older RWD toyotas.

BTW. good job Joel!
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chrisss
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the struts joel is using are from an australian delivered st141 corona .. there was a lot of local engineering on this car and they may be using locally supplied PBR brand calipers.
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Jayem
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ok!
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thechuckster
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cool1: if you can help me locate st141 struts in brisbane, i'd seriously consider joining you to group-buy some nissan calipers (at TurboRA28's price?).

my only irritant will then be the complete pair of RA23/40 struts/brakes i have as spares plus the ones on the car, or could i use the inserts from my existing spairs in st141 items?

Joel: you've got to re-drill the rotor to suit the hub? and you removed the disk shield/cover attached to the stub axle? do you have to put a shim between the old caliper mounts and the new nissan calipers?

anyway, looks pretty impressive! - and think of the upholstery repairs you'll save on (as you no longer need to clench the seat cover so hard while braking) Wink

anyone: could you remove the 'nissan' words from the casting and replacing them with something more suitable, without weakening the item? Wink

also, are the pads held in the calipers with clips or are they 'hung' on pins/rails going thru the calipers? (displaying total lack of knowledge of nissans here)

tia,
Charles
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BigWorm
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Looking bloody good mate! Smile

One thing though, have you measured the bolt hole spacing at the bottom of the strut & compared it to the celica struts? Accurately? Smile
Cos I have a set of corona struts downstairs with I think 100mm bolt hole spacing (they have/had the volvo 4 spots bolted on) but the spacing of these holes down the bottom of the strut is around 5mm different, which is hard to pick with rough measurements.
Anyway, I've got my fingers crossed that it'll all work, good luck!


BTW, have you still got the corona?
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ok i'll try and answer some questions..

TE72_Turbo - Mate, are you interested in just caliper, or caliper/disc/strut? As I have a spare set of toyota 4 spots which i'll sell.

Jayem - It was just a Aus spec ST141 1983 which are plentiful at wreckers.

Thechuckster - I've been lead to believe that the original RA inserts fit the struts fine. I currently have XT130 struts in my RA28 and the original inserts fitted them fine.

I will probably get a set of blank DBA909 and have them drilled to suit the hub. But will muck around with the secondhand set I have first.

I removed the dust/sheild cover just to make the process of fitting/measuring etc easier. I may fit it back on when finished. Probably need to be cut up a bit though as the caliper is larger.

There is no shim between the nissan caliper and st141 struts. What you are seeing is some metal insert used as the caliper is alloy and alloy calipers use a metal mounting/bolt hole thing for strength.

I was talking to a guy who ground off the Nissan logo and polished the whole caliper up. Looked very nice. I plan to take the Nissan logo off.

The discs are hung on rails/pins that go through the caliper.

Bigworn - mate you got me worried now! will take some accurate measurements tonight. I suppose if it is out, a RCA could be designed to fix this problem?

Cheers
Joel
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demuire
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Sun, 28 September 2003 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maybe you could use the ST141 steering arms too? Assuming they will fit on the RAxx balljoints...

This could be well interesting Smile I'm in the process of converting my XT130 ones to adj coilovers, but this could be a better upgrade!

Cool1: if this upgrade works, I could be interested in some bits if you can get them cheap Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 28 September 2003 23:53]

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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yeah I was planning on going to coilovers but decided before I did I should complete a brake upgrade that i'm happy with as the struts might change - which they have now.

So if this all works i'll get the st141 struts converted to coilover with some AE92 or GT4 inserts.
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dorikin
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
it's difficult to see in the photos, but how far forward of the wheel mounting surface (flange) does the caloper protrude? it seems from the photos that the caliper sticks out significantly. if so, then fitment of some wheels without spacers may be impossible? also have you had a chance to measure the effective diameter of the pads with the caliper mounted to that strut? will the be the same 280mm for use with the 909 disc?
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dorikin - yeah you are right does sit quite far forward and might have problems with wheels.

Do you think maybe the caliper could be mounted behind the strut mounts, instead of infront of them.

DBA909 wouldn't work then as the height would need to be a lot larger, probably 70mm or something instead of 54mm.

280mm seem to be correct.
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dorikin
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 04:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
it's a shame that the nissan caliper sits very far out. with my current hilux/pug setup, the caliper sits out only about 3mm and my wheels have very little clearance between the inside of the spokes and the caliper as it is. the Pug rotors have a 43mm offset from memory (could be wrong).

(excuse the comparison, may help with sorting some of this out)

so according to my calculations the centre line of the pug rotor is 33mm from the front of the hat, and the 909 rotors have the centreline 39mm from the front of the hat. hence the centreline of the nissan caliper will sit further back than the centreline of the hilux caliper.

so this suggests that either the nissan caliper is much wider (rotor centreline to the outside) than the hilux caliper (except for the obvious 5mm either side of the centreline to allow for the thicker rotors), or that the ST141 hub is much different to the XT130 hub.

maybe look at the possibility of using the XT130 hubs on the ST141 struts if that produces a more desirable setup. it might be that the distance from the disc mounting surface to the wheel mounting surface is different on both hubs. dunno, i'm just thinking out loud... maybe the XT130 hub is longer, and has the wheel mounting face further out from the strut than the ST141 hub.

if you still have access to the XT130 struts you had, measure it up and see what you come up with. sounds very interesting what you're working on here...

also, tell me, are the caliper mounts on the ST141 strut cast in, or are they part of a pressed steel plate that bolts to the strut.
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demuire
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 04:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've got some XT130 struts, discs and hubs that I can measure if anyone wants some measurements. They are currently in pieces with no spring seats, but apart from that should be complete.

*ps you'll need to tell me what exactly to measure cause i'm a bit of a n00b Razz *

[Updated on: Mon, 29 September 2003 04:59]

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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mate I agree with your figures and thinking.

Yeah so like you say either the caliper is a a lot larger, or the hub is different for the st141.

I'll take some more measurements tonight of the different components and some better pictures.

Oh yeah, the st141 mounting points are similar to xt130, its not a removable plate but fixed.

Cheers
Joel
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 05:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mate that'd be great! As I have the ST141 in parts, and RA28 items in parts. But the XT130 are bolted up on the car which makes it harder to measure.

Umm so what do we need.. I suppose the width of the hub, also the length of axle?
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dorikin
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i think it'd be of more significance to compare on each hub the distance from the wheel mounting face to the disc mounting face. if they are the same, then my whole line of thinking may be no good. on the other hand, if the XT130 is large in this distance to the ST141 hub, i think it would be a good idea to then investigate the possibility of fitting the XT130 hub to the ST141 stub axle.

despite this, i fear that both hubs are similar in their dimentions, and hence the problem will be that the nissan caliper is simply significantly wider than the hilux caliper. this will mean that choice of wheels will be restricted, or the use of spacers will be necessary. either option is less than desirable...

Joel, while you're out measuring things, have a go at the distnace that the caliper actually does stick out past the wheel flange. it mighn not be all that bad anyway.

alos while we're at it, measure the thickness of the caliper where it bolts to the strut (ie, where the metal iserts are) it might be possible to machine this down slightly. this may be necessary so that the caliper centreline is coincident with the rotor centreline. if so, then the caliper would be moving back to line up with the disc.

another option is that if the disc offset is not great enough to meet the caliper, a shim can be made to bolt between the disc and the hub, hence locating it further back towards the strut.

a combination of these could result in both the caliper and the disc being mounted far enough back to increase the clearance to the wheel.

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demuire
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Umm, my measurements (XT130):

wheel mounting face to disc mounting face: 32mm
width of hub (from one end to the other): 96mm

Anything else?
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well some good news. My wheels still do fit!

http://members.optusnet.com.au/helenfitz/wheel_clear.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/helenfitz/caliper_width.jpg

The bad news... Bigworm is right, the ST141 strut hole spacing is around 5mm out. Any ideas on this one? Maybe using the original ST141 steering arms?

Cheers
Joel
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Another pic. This gives a better indication of the height of the caliper in relation to the wheel mounting face.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/helenfitz/caliper_height.jpg
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hmmm i've made a big mistake in measuring the required height of the rotor.

If anything, it needs to be offset more towards the wheel, instead of the strut.

Bugger this will make things harder. Don't think DBA make a rotor that is 30mm thick with no pronounced hat area.

My only idea might be trying to mount the caliper on the other side of the mounting points on the strut.

Or trying to machine off some of the back of the hub where the disc bolts up.

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Cool1
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Or you could put the rotor on the front of the hub Rolling Eyes
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dorikin
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
well with new information, it seems like this will be a huge amount of stuffing around...

the caliper sticks out far more than i thought it would. is it at all possible to mount the caliper on the back of the strut monuts?? this may be no good either as the bolt heads may interfere with the disc.

and as for the strut not mounting to the steering arm without stuffing around, well...

i'm all out of ideas...
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E30-323ti
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What problems are there putting the caliper on the back of the mounting tabs, you'd need to drill out the treaded holes and thread the mounting tabs (but to size it up you can bolt it on).
See how much disc offset you have then. Assuming the steering knuckle won't hit the proposed disc.
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gold28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Could you use a different hub with more offset??

If you were going to machine up some RCA's, it don't matter what the ball joint bolt spacing is, just make the RCA to match both ends.
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Mon, 29 September 2003 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yeah my only idea is to try moving the caliper to the other side of the strut, and thread the mounting points on the strut inside of using the thread in the caliper.

Gold28 - Yup I think RCA's are the way to go to fix the problem with bolting the strut to the steering knuckle.

Just gotta see if anyway around getting the caliper mounted back more, or a offset hub..

DBA484 rotor for a Honda NSX which has a thickness of 28mm (which is acceptable for these calipers i've been told), and a total height of 36mm. They are 283mm I think so might need to be machined down a few mm. These also will fit the hub with little machining required.

But for these to fit somehow I need approx (this is VERY approx), 13mm more clearance between the back of the hub and caliper.
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E30-323ti
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Tue, 30 September 2003 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
accept the NSX rotors aren't made by DBA, only distributed, so you can't get blanks and they are $$$$

I've investigated that option for my BMW.
Ended up using Nissan patrol rotors (305x28) they are a hub type bolton disc that I made into a 2 piece rotor setup using high tensile steel hat to mate to the BMW hub and EVO 4 calipers.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 September 2003 00:06]

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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Tue, 30 September 2003 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Someone said that DBA909 might actually go over the hub and not bolt onto the underside.

If this was the case.. perfect.
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E30-323ti
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Tue, 30 September 2003 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
just have to machine done the dia of the wheel mounting flange prolly
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Tue, 30 September 2003 00:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Won't give up hope yet then..

The DBA909 rotors that came with the calipers should arrive this week. Once I get them will see what happens.

Cheers
Joel
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 02:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I found a subsitute for DBA484 which are a lot more affordable. This is through www.discpads.com for $124 each.

Seem like they could work though. They have total height of 36mm, and rotor thickness is 28mm.

My measurements indicate that for these to fit, i'd need to somehow get approx 12mm more clearance between the hub rotor mounting face and the caliper.

So metal has to be removed from somewhere for this to work..

Machine down the hub rotor face?
Machine down the strut mounting points?
Machine down the caliper mounting points?

Or maybe a little bit off all of the above?
I would be concerned about taking too much off the caliper and strut because don't want it to be weakened too much.

Whats everyones ideas on this?

The rotors are not blanks though and 5 stud. Could they just be drilled to suit? Or do I really need blanks so it can be drilled for 4 stud?

Thanks
Joel
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 02:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Otherwise... Might have to be a 2 piece rotor.. Then can get a very thin hat. Seem expensive initally, but then replacement rotors are affordable. Looks damn sexy too Smile
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gold28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 03:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I don't think your engineer would like the idea of maching down thoes parts. Likewise manufacturing a hub would require a fair bit of engineering assessment. A lot more than the usual "oh it all bolts together does it"
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Norbie
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Get yourself some Wilwood rotors - big and relatively cheap. Have a mounting hat fabricated or modify one of their off-the-shelf ones.

Wilwood rotors

Mounting hats

Here's what I'm planning: WW160-2894 ventilated rotors, 12.19" diameter (310mm), 1.25" thick. These are about US$50 each, which is a pretty good deal for a rotor of that size I reckon! I'm not sure about mounting hats (I'll have to speak to an engineer about that one) but I reckon one of the hats on the second page could be used in my case.
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 03:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Just go 2 piece. 6061T6 centre and some AP, Brembo or Alcon rotor. This is ideal, but probably a bit more than you had originally intended to spend. The plus is that you will have a very light weight assembly despite increasing rotor and caliper size.

Wilwoods are gay. They warp at the mention of heat. They use them on Nascars - enough said. Laughing

EDIT: had a close look at pic...calipers are mounted the wrong way for shims to work.

You could also mount the rotor over the hub but this will require longer studs and possibly some machining of the outer edge of the hub.

[Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 03:43]

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gold28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 03:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
There is a lot more to designing a rotor hat than holding the rotor and bearings.

Stresses due to thermal expansion are significant. Providing adequate cooling for the disc. Extremely high fastener loads. As much as I am sure that an engineer would love you to give him a few weeks work, I think there is possibly a more cost effective way to approach this.
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hmm lots more ideas to think about..

Gold28, what do you think the more cost effective way to approach it is?

I'm starting to wonder if give up on using the st141 strut and use RA28 item with a custom plate made up to hold the caliper.

Thanks all again for suggestions i'll start investigating them..

It's a bugger cannot take 12mm or the hub as this would allow the honda NSX 484 rotors to work.
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 04:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Whats everyone else think of DBA's 2 piece rotors?
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 06:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Does anyone know if a dog and bone style bracket is legal?
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gold28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I havn't really looked at the geometry in detail, but is there another existing hub that would fit the bill. Might be worth measuring it up and taking another trip to pick (and modify) and pay (even) less.
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justcallmefrank
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I looked at the NSX rotor when I was toying with the idea of a brake upgrade. After conferring with DBA Steve from the performance forums he basically said find something else, the NSX disc is REALLY expensive for what it is, and DBA don't actually make them themselves because of the low demand.
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Cool1
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Since when does a rotor hat hold bearings?

There are about a billion places that make custom rotor hats in Australia! I'm getting some made by race brakes very soon for a fixed price and they will be made from aircraft grade alloy!
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BigWorm
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hahaha, I love that term, "aircraft grade alloy". Smile
Most of the grades used on aircraft are pretty ordinary, and not what you'd want brake parts made from!
Ask 'em what sort of aircraft grade alloy.
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Cool1
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraft grade is actually a trademark for a particular grade of alloy! Anyone that uses the term for something else is in brech of tradmark! Or so it says in most if not all alloy cattledogs Rolling Eyes
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gold28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry to burst your bubble Cool1, but "aircraft grade alloy" is not a trade mark, it is a term used that implies teh level of quality standards and traceability for mineing and manufacturing of the alloy. It has nothing to do with how strong, what type of alloy or who makes it.

If they are using "aircraft grade alloy" for your rotor hat then I would say that they are taking you for a ride because there is no reason why you would require such a stringent quality assurance policy attached to your rotor hats.

Maybe they are using 6061-T6 which is a heat treated alloy that is stronger than the stuff used in Coke cans but is a commonly available alloy of aluminium. 6061 incidently isn't used all that much aviation, except for ducts and things like that which need to be welded. There are many other stronger alloys and tempers that are used in aircraft. Rolling Eyes
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Cool1
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maybe you should climb down off your high horse and re-read my post! I was just stating what is written in and alloy cattledog I have here!

[Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 11:06]

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gold28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No high horses, just facts. If some-one has decided to use the term as a trade mark then they are deliberately decieving people. Smart advertising I guess.
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thechuckster
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TurboRA28 wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 14:04

Hmm lots more ideas to think about..
<snip>
I'm starting to wonder if give up on using the st141 strut and use RA28 item with a custom plate made up to hold the caliper.
<snip rest>



i think you should use an adaptor plate to correctly position the caliper to suit the Pug (or similar) disk with the ST hub?

The RA23/28/40 hub has the disk much closer to the strut face? (e.g. dist from strut plate to disk mount face is bugger all compared to your ST) (i'll check tomorrow as if i go outside now, the neighbors will ring the cops thinking i'm doing a B&E)

adaptor plate could be on STRUT-side of mount bolts and position the rotor further around disk and have Xmm shims welded to position calipers horizontally away from the disk.

i'll bash a drawing together and post it - but i think you should try to retain as much 'bolt-on' hardware (e.g. oem rotor, hub, steering, strut, caliper mounting-faces) to minimise engineering problems.

http://members.optushome.com.au/mkhala/red_celica/pictures/mod_strut.gif

we just need is a tame (or blackmailable) CNC operator or competant welder (to build-up the shims) and the adaptor only needs threads cut to attach to the ST mount points?

charles.

[Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 15:12]

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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thanks for the input Charles.

Do you think if making a new adapter plate it would be better to use the RA struts, so there are no problems with them bolting to the original steering knuckles?

I worked on this idea roughly...

Basically took the RA28 strut and original mounting plate (which is removable on the RA strut). Put a piece of wood (only to see how it will work of course!!) across the original mounting holes and bolted it up. Then added another 2 new holes to suit the Nissan caliper.

This basically sat the caliper in the same location as it does on the ST strut.

So then I added some shims between the piece of wood and the mounting holes on the strut. I moved the caliper out (towards the car, away from the wheel), as much as possible before running into problems with the rotor hitting the bolt heads holding the caliper mounting plate onto the strut leg etc.

This seemed to be good.. Brought the caliper a good distance in, which means more room for a rotor/hat... But, it still seemed that there would be no room for a rotor/hat over 28mm. That was using the ST hub.. The RA hub like you say gives bugger all room and in this conversion appears useless.

So just to sum that up as confusing to read!! The caliper away as far as possible so the rotor runs true through the center, but doesn't touch the strut/bolts/etc.

Still only 28mm from the hub rotor mounting face to the point on the caliper where the rotor would be.

This would work if I got a 2 piece rotor as they can make it so the hub doesn't protrude at all.

But, if wanting to stay with OEM rotors which is preferable... Would probably need to investigate another hub that gives even more room between rotor mount and strut.. Or, go for a rotor/hat that goes over the hub and mounts to the front wheel side of it.

Maybe that is the way to go. Would probably use the RA hub then as using the ST hub, with a rotor hat over it will add quite a bit of width to the track of the car.

If going for a rotor/hat over hub style, is there a more suitable hub for this application? Maybe one that fits inside the hat without machining?

After saying all that though.. More finer measurements need to be taken.. Charles idea possibly could work, but it does appear even moving the caliper back as far as possible still not enough room between hub and strut for a OEM rotor.

Cheers
Joel

Well there is a brain dump haha...

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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hmm just a thought.. When doing all that, I didn't take into account that the underside of the rotor is kinda hollow and might be able to come closer to the strut without hitting the bolt heads due to this.

Or... if using the ST struts, which doesn't have the 4 bolts holding the caliper mounting plate on, as its all 1 piece.. Might be able to come closer to the strut again..

All of the above means possibly more room for rotor/hat.. Might just fit the DBA484 which as mentioned before it affordable and easily sourced through other companies (not dba).

Need to clear my head on this and get some clarity back haha!
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TurboRA28
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles, just to clarify so I know i'm reading it correct..

The light grey section in your drawings is the new caliper adapter yeah?
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demuire
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Re: Startings of Nissan 4 spot RA28 brake upgrade Wed, 01 October 2003 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
I think the light grey section is the adaptor plate, and the caliper sits behind it. Basically it makes it as if you're mounting the caliper behind the original brackets, except you don't have to redrill anything and won't have problems with the bolt head being on the wrong side of the bracket (fouling the disc).

If you were going to use an adaptor plate (which would be nice to avoid as some engineers don't like it) you would be able to use any strut/caliper almost... The nice thing about the calipers and strut combination you have is that it's bolt-on, if only there was a disc to suit...
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